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Thread: Dayton & El Paso Mass Shootings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    In the US a person is just as likely to die in a automobile wreck as to die by a gun. Are we going to ban/restrict car ownership.
    Is that the right comparison?

    Ok, I guess we can say that one ''too early suddenly'' killed person is equally bad thing; no matter how it has happened? And the actions to limit the total numbers should be ''good'' thing?

    BUT ... what would the results if banning all the cars in USA? ... or civil guns? I think those impacts would not be equal. And that is what should count if comparing those two matters.

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    Senior Member Astragoth's Avatar
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    The stupid thing is this shooting is literally a weekend in Chicago and no one reports on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    Yes, I think this is one of the biggest difference between average Americans and average Western Europeans.

    As...

    1.) Western Europeans opposite tends to see that the risks are much too high vs possible benefits.

    2.) Western Europeans don't see/believe that it is possibly to take country back (if/then needed) ... with using armed civil people.
    They think ... something like that could only happen ... with (unarmed) civil people whose side military and army would join/step.

    USA (as a country) tries to show up as a model country of democracy. But we know better (Europeans). So do our American friends here (who uses words like tyranny ... etc.). Yup ... Europeans are not fully naive, and don't trust their own leaders, but they still are not as much against their political elites as Americans are. In democracy ... it is ... people who should choose that elite. I guess something will not work?
    Governments are not to be trusted at all to do what you might think best for the citizens. Power corrupts. That power here in the United States is under a checks and balances system of government. The problem arises when corruption and graft spreads among those parties in the business of checks and balances. It happens. And it's happening now.

    Governments are a neccessary evil of a civilized society,but they come with a large risk if they are not kept in check, and government is harder to control than you can imagine when one part of government has an imbalance with other parts of government.

    The government in the United States and the Constitution was written, not to tell the public what they could do, but what the Government's limitation are, and what they cannot do. Not, as so many outsiders think, to outline what the Government can do.

    The first Ten Amendments as The Bill of Rights spells this out in plain English. What the Government CANNOT do.

    Politicians here often forget that the Government in the US is a government by the people, and for the people, not for the Government. The people are supposed to be the ones that run this country, not the politicians. Unfortunately, it hasn't been that way here since at least the 1950's.
    American by birth, made of parts from Emmingen, Baden-Württemberg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Rentz View Post
    Governments are not to be trusted at all to do what you might think best for the citizens. Power corrupts. That power here in the United States is under a checks and balances system of government. The problem arises when corruption and graft spreads among those parties in the business of checks and balances. It happens. And it's happening now.

    Governments are a neccessary evil of a civilized society,but they come with a large risk if they are not kept in check, and government is harder to control than you can imagine when one part of government has an imbalance with other parts of government.

    The government in the United States and the Constitution was written, not to tell the public what they could do, but what the Government's limitation are, and what they cannot do. Not, as so many outsiders think, to outline what the Government can do.

    The first Ten Amendments as The Bill of Rights spells this out in plain English. What the Government CANNOT do.

    Politicians here often forget that the Government in the US is a government by the people, and for the people, not for the Government. The people are supposed to be the ones that run this country, not the politicians. Unfortunately, it hasn't been that way here since at least the 1950's.
    Thanx for the post. I read that with great interest.

    I agree with ''cliche'' power will corrupt (mankind's history proves that). Or at least it rises the risks for that. Still ''working environment'' around, ''local culture'' around, ''norms'' around influences a lot too. All countries are not same ways corrupted today.

    But that's why we have elections, right? If some politician so called ... fucked up ... don't vote him/her next time ... or his/hers party. I just can not understand why/how Berlusconi (Italy) will get lots of votes time after time. Perhaps some people/citizens should look on the mirror as well? Incl. also those who will not vote at all (don't use their rights)

    Sorry, what you meant by this: ''government is harder to control than you can imagine when one part of government has an imbalance with other parts of government.''

    You wrote: ''The government in the United States and the Constitution was written, not to tell the public what they could do, but what the Government's limitation are, and what they cannot do''.

    I could expect that there are sentences that they should serve your country the best possible ways? But how to control/know that .. is the question?
    Theoretically speaking if your Constitution had been written differently, do you think system could work clearly better? No matter what ... there are always some matters/issues which ''can not be told public''. For example those linked to national security policies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post

    BUT ... what would the results if banning all the cars in USA? ... or civil guns? I think those impacts would not be equal. And that is what should count if comparing those two matters.
    Interesting that you mention banning cars. There are a lot of elites in the US who would like to severely restrict private automobile ownership. California is leading the way by attempting to make ownership of private vehicles cost prohibited for the poor and middle class. Which would force more people into inner city, densely population (and "diverse") communities. This is why so many Whites have fled California.

    If guns are outlawed the criminal gangs will not turn themselves in. M-13 would be just as deadly in the US as in El Salvador where private gun ownership is severely restricted. Or Mexico; 19 Murdered by Drug Cartel in Michoacan This sort of violence is not unusual in Mexico but gets nowhere near the media attention as a mass shooting in the US. Private gun ownership in the US is why gang violence in this country is not as bad as Mexico or El Salvador.

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  10. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    Interesting that you mention banning cars. There are a lot of elites in the US who would like to severely restrict private automobile ownership.
    Oh, just did it as I though you mentioned that ... same numbers: killed people via guns versus killed people via traffic.

    I guess green parties are trying to limit the use of private cars everywhere (global warming). Your California example via ownership is one of the hardest ways to do it. Here they tries to make it so expensive (prices of cars, prices of fuel ... with setting both extremely high taxes), increasing parking costs, now discussing about road payments in some areas etc. ... to put people using more buses, trains, trolleys etc. They already have done a lot in Stockholm / Sweden (couple of years ago), and politicians have similar plans now in Helsinki / Finland. Ok, might work someway in city areas, but how about here in country sides? We need our cars.

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    The inconvenient truth about the El Paso shooter

    The motivations of this weekend’s mass shooters have been so partially reported



    Who wrote ‘Our lifestyle is destroying the environment of our country … creating a massive burden for future generations. Corporations are heading the destruction of our environment by shamelessly over-harvesting resources … the next logical step is to decrease the number of people in America using resources. If we can get rid of enough people, then our way of life can become more sustainable’?

    The answer, if media reports are accurate, is Patrick Crusius, the man accused of the El Paso massacre. The words appeared in his testament, entitled (in homage to Al Gore?) The Inconvenient Truth, which he seems to have put online before decreasing the number of people in America by 22.

    Who said, on Twitter, ‘I want socialism, and I’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding’? Connor Betts, the man accused of shooting nine people, including his sister, in Dayton, Ohio.

    This week’s reporting of the two atrocities has painted Crusius as a white supremacist. This does not seem to be accurate. In his manifesto, he is against ethnic mingling and mass immigration, but his view that immigrants should be killed is based not on racial superiority theory, but on his sense that too many people pollute the environment of America. He despairs of persuading his fellow Americans to change their consumerist lifestyles, so he decides to attack the ‘invaders’ instead.

    As for Betts, the self-styled ‘leftist’, coverage has tended to slide past his political views. It is seriously bad that both cases have been so partially reported. If we are to work out the motivations of unhappy/trigger-happy young men such as these, shouldn’t we carefully expose all the preposterous justifications they make for their evil acts? Some of them — mostly to do with race — come from the right. Some — mostly to do with saving the planet from human beings — come from the left. Betts sounds like a potential Bernie Sanders recruit. Crusius seems closer to Extinction Rebellion than to Donald Trump.

    Source: Spectator
    “Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no-one is too poor to buy.” - C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

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    Senior Member Astragoth's Avatar
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    As far as I know the el paso shooter's mother was a latino. He's not even white. Neither was the garlic shooter he was Iranian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    As far as I know the el paso shooter's mother was a latino. He's not even white. Neither was the garlic shooter he was Iranian.
    At the end of the day it doesn't matter whether the shooter was White, Black, Latino, Iranian or from Outer Space. The only thing that matters is the way the Left and/or the mainstream media manages to frame the whole thing into the memory of folks.

    In Munich, Germany they once managed to make a "far right terror attack" out of one Iranian guy ticking and shooting Turks in a shopping centre in 2016. They even went so far as shortening him as David S. instead of Ali S. to make him seem 'more German'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    In the US a person is just as likely to die in a automobile wreck as to die by a gun. Are we going to ban/restrict car ownership.
    That's a bad argumentative tactic to use, because it's likely to backfire. Here in Europe that's an argument the left constantly uses to downplay the dangers of islamist terrorism. We shouldn't get down to that level. The strength of the 'Right' as it were is that we generally have facts + numbers on our side, and we should use that strength and argue from fact, not from a whataboutist stance or from a derailing tactic.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Just another shooting........

    KILLING SPREE
    Texas shooting – Five dead and at least 20 injured in mass shooting as gunman is shot dead by police in cinema

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/983837...ire-in-odessa/

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