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Thread: Dayton & El Paso Mass Shootings

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coillearnach View Post
    I know there were some studies done in the 70s regarding the role of weapon choice in the outcome of violent crimes (specifically aggravated assault, murder, and robbery) and one of the aggravated assault studies found that if the assailant had a gun over say a knife, the fatality rate of an attacked victim rose by something like 10%, but that weapon choice didn't affect the overall rate of those crimes.

    Most mass killings are not public shootings, it's only like 12%, they are either familicides or felony-related killings (gangs, robberies).

    So, yeah, it could bring down the fatality rate of felony-related crimes & familicide some if we were to get rid of guns (though I don't know how much with the gang-related stuff since they probably get their guns through illegal channels to begin with), but at the expense of punishing and possibly harming the safety of responsible gun owners by interfering with self defense and violating the 2nd Amendment. Doubtful it would do anything at all for the public shooting phenomenon because those are premeditated, unlike most murders, and the killers could just change weapons.
    The guns can be used both easily & effectively in many other crimes (robberies etc.) where nobody (luckily) will still not become shoot death. Increasing numbers of those directly or at least making those much easier to realize ... increasing the risk of them.

    Anyway ... I like/value your responses (discussion).

    [Staff note: discussion on the AK has been moved to this new thread.]

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  3. #52
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    Mexico Threatens Legal Action Over El Paso Shooting



    Source: Bearingarms

    Illegal immigration, despite what the progressives claim, is a legitimate problem. These are people who entered our nation illegally and work outside of the system because of that. This introduces all kinds of issues, including the large number of Americans who have been killed by illegal immigrants over the years.

    For the Mexican government, none of that matters.

    Instead, they want to try and focus attention on the handful of Mexicans who were gunned down among the 20 killed in the El Paso shooting. In fact, they’re now threatening legal action.

    Mexico on Sunday threatened to take legal action against the United States for failing to protect its citizens after this weekend’s mass shooting in the border city of El Paso.

    Of the 20 people gunned down at a Walmart at the Cielo Vista Mall, at least seven were Mexican citizens, and Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard promised Mexico City will act.

    In a statement, the Foreign Ministry called the attack in El Paso a “terrorist act against innocent Mexicans.”

    “The president has instructed me to ensure that Mexico’s indignation translates into … efficient, prompt, expeditious and forceful legal actions for Mexico to take a role and demand that conditions are established that protect … Mexicans in the United States,” Ebrard said in a video posted on Twitter.

    Ebrard later announced that he would be in El Paso to meet with the victims and offer support from the Mexican government.

    Of the 26 injured in the attack, at least nine were Mexican nationals, according to the government.

    Oh, they want to initiate legal actions against the United States for not protecting Mexican citizens? Let me ask Ebrard just how many were legal residents of the United States and how many entered this country in a manner that violated American law?

    Next, let’s talk about all the Americans who have been killed in Mexico through the years? I’m willing to guarantee it was more than seven. Did the Mexican government fail to protect them?

    Look, American case law makes it clear that the government has no duty to protect anyone. That includes American citizens. Mexican citizens don’t get afforded anything different. If they want a government that has such a duty, then I suggest returning to Mexico. After all, it certainly seems as though the Mexican government thinks such a duty exists.

    Of course, the murder rate in Juarez alone suggests that if the Mexican government believes they have a duty to protect their citizens, they suck at it.

    What happened in El Paso is a tragedy. The fact that a manifesto exists that suggests these Mexican nationals may have been intentionally targetted because they were Mexicans makes it even worse. That kind of hatred has no place in our country.

    Many are trying to take Trump’s anti-immigration rhetoric and make it all about Hispanics, the truth is that illegal immigration is a problem that knows no ethnicity. After all, there are Asian and white illegal immigrants too. To make the case that Trump’s rhetoric somehow led to El Paso is to ignore the fact that the media’s reporting on Trump, as well as the mainstream media’s insistence that he was only talking about Hispanic immigrants, would likely have been what truly played a role.

    So will Mexico sue the media next?

    Of course not. The truth is, Mexico is doing nothing more than a bit of grandstanding. Frankly, I think cutting off any foreign aid to Mexico–about $290 million–should remind them that we’ve been paying them more than they deserve, so don’t push it.
    “Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no-one is too poor to buy.” - C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

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  5. #53
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    Funny how Mexicans can kill people at will in this country but we cant do anything about it.
    Oh apparently the Texas shooter was a leftist who's profile got changed when he was in jail to make him a right winger.
    Last edited by Juthunge; Tuesday, August 6th, 2019 at 04:17 PM. Reason: 5. Ad gentems, racial slurs, and aspersions against any identifiable group, even if only in retaliation, are not permitted.

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    Ohio Shooting Suspect Described Himself as a Socialist, Advocated Violence Against ‘Fascists’



    Ohio shooting suspect Connor Betts was a registered Democrat who posted pro-socialist content on a social media account along with repeated indications that he favored gun control, pushing for violence against “fascists” and white supremacists, and describing himself as a Satanist.

    Betts described himself as a “leftist” on his Twitter profile and used hashtags on one selfie that included “selfie4satan” and “HailSatan.”

    Betts shared videos from Some More News that were anti-Republican, including one from host Cody Johnston that claimed “the president wants to shoot migrants at the border.”

    Betts also repeatedly indicated his support for gun control, writing in one missive, “This is America: Guns on every corner, guns in every house, no freedom but that to kill.” In another, he said he himself loved guns.

    Betts described immigration detention centers as “concentration camps,” writing: “Cut the fences down. Slice ICE tires. Throw bolt cutters over the fences.”

    The hyperbolic language, popularized by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), was also used recently by a 69-year-old Antifa member who attacked an immigration facility in Washington state before being shot dead.



    Betts said he supported Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and indicated support for Ocasio-Cortez, sharing an article about House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) not supporting AOC and her cohorts and telling his followers to read it.

    The alleged shooter also pushed violence against so-called “fascists.” In one case, he replied to a Buzzfeed story and wrote: “Kill every fascist.” He shared an article from the New Republic about an alleged “global fascist movement” and shared posts doxxing people who users said attended a pro-Ku Klux Klan rally in Dayton, writing, “Know your enemies.”

    In one post, Betts wrote, “I want socialism, and I’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.”

    The Twitter page was discovered by the website Heavy.com. Twitter later removed the page.

    Texas Shooter Manifesto

    The man who allegedly carried out the El Paso, Texas, mass shooting over the weekend left behind a manifesto that police confirmed he likely wrote. It said the attack was carried out as “a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas.

    “They are the instigator s, not me. I am simply defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement brought on by an in vasion [sic],” Patrick Crusius wrote.

    “Some people will think this statement is hypocritical because of the nearly complete ethnic and cultural destruction brought to the Native Americans by our European ancestors, but this just reinforces my point. The natives didn’t take the invasion of Europeans seriously, and now what’s left is just a shadow of what was.”

    Crusius expressed dismay with both Democrats and Republicans and said lawmakers “have been failing us for decades.”

    “They are either complacent or involved in one of the biggest betrayals of the American public in our history. The takeover of the United States government by unchecked corporations,” he added, predicting a future one-party state.

    “The Democrat party will own America and they know it. They have already begun the transition by pandering heavily to the Hispanic voting bloc in the 1st Democratic Debate. They intend to use open borders, free healthcare for illegals, citizenship and more to enact a political coup by importing and then legalizing millions of new voters. With policies like these, the Hispanic support for Democrats will likely become nearly unanimous in the future. The heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make us a Democrat stronghold,” Crusius alleged.

    He said that new migrants work hard but claimed that their children do not and blamed Republican lawmakers for increasing the number of foreign workers allowed in the country, saying it undermined Americans’ ability to find good jobs.

    He later said that he carried out the shooting because the country was going a different direction than he’d imagined due to mass migration.

    “Inaction is a choice I can no longer beat the shame of inaction knowing that our founding fathers have endowed me with the rights needed to save our country from the brink [of] destruction,” he wrote.

    While some have tried blaming President Donald Trump for the Texas shooting, Crusius said the president had nothing to do with it.

    “My ideology has not changed for several years. My opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president. I put ting [sic] this here because some people will blame the President or certain presidential candidates for the attack. This is not the case,” he wrote.

    “I know that the media will probably call me a white supremacist anyway and blame Trump’s rhetoric. The media is infamous for fake news. Their reaction to this attack will likely just confirm that.”

    Source: News.ntd
    “Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no-one is too poor to buy.” - C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

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    Here we are.
    Patrick Crusius has a profile on MyLife.com.

    MyLife is an American information brokerage founded in 2002 as Reunion.com. MyLife gathers personal information through public records and other sources to automatically generate a “MyLife Public Page” for each person, described by MyLife as a “complete Wikipedia-like biography on every American.”
    At 2:46 PM today MyLife had this profile for the deranged killer Patrick Crusius.
    His original profile at 2:46 said he was a registered Democrat.
    Someone changed the Texas shooters profile from democrat to republican.

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    The left would effectively starve in urban democratic strongholds as they won't control either the countryside nor the roads to transport food.

    This thread is going a bit into the direction of a theoretical US civil war so I'll add to that. I think the above is a good point and I think it basically reveals a difference between country dwellers and city dwellers.

    Could a lot of things come basically to that? City vs Countryside

    In the end, it's the countryside of farmers who grow the food that will survive a destabilized USA whereas city dwellers are totally reliant upon the country dwellers for basic survival (and I'm speculating this is where most Antifa and left-wing marxists are - Universities full of grandiose Marxist ideas and coffee shops aren't going to keep you alive).

    Riots will break out in cities as everyone takes that lawless opportunity to get that big useless flat screen or over-priced Nike sneakers (people will need them to run as the thin veil of civilized order comes crashing down).


    Another big issue if there was a real serious breakdown of the USA into some kind of serious civil war would be how it would affect the US dollar. Right now, the entire value of the US dollar is propped up by the demand for it because it's almost always used for oil sales around the world (Iraq switched to Euros in 2001 and look what happened to them ... Venezuela considered it and Iran did switch some oil sales away from US dollar). Imagine if the US totally collapses into internal chaos ..... foreign confidence in the US dollar would plummet and the entire economy will be affected. All those hundreds of bases the US has all around the world are going to be hard to keep running if the US dollar goes down the tubes (especially with the huge debt).

    Another aspect would be the likely chaos of swarms of people coming across from Mexico (and more south) into the southern US. I can imagine that happening.

    Complex military machinery (state of the art aircraft, etc) would lose their usefulness quickly if petroleum supplies are reduced.

    I suppose the countryside dwellers can make some kind of fuel from grains and corn. One more plus for the country dwellers.



    Anyway, interesting speculation. I'm sure the powers-that-be would want to avoid this scenario.

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    PHOTOS: Every US Mass Shooter in 2019 Who Shot Four or More People

    The liberal media will tell you there have been over 200 mass shootings in the United States so far this year.
    The media will also make you believe the mass shooters are all young white males.
    A Wiki Page was created to list every mass shooting in the US in 2019.


    The list does not include those shootings where no one will speak to police.


    At least 20 of the mass shootings this year were in Chicago, Illinois.



    More than 140 mass shootings are unsolved largely because no one will give descriptions to the police.


    The data just comes from me googling incidents from the wiki page and reading local news. Feel free to correct any mistakes I've made or feed me info that I missedhttps://t.co/tZEM87ZLe4


    — Ignatius✝️��☮������ (@VoiceofIgnatius) August 5, 2019


    Its alao not "every" shooter of 2019. Its only he ones we know about More than 140 mass shootings are unsolved largely because no one will give descriptions to the police, even when shootings happen in places with dozens oe hundreds of people around which is often


    — Ignatius✝️��☮������ (@VoiceofIgnatius) August 5, 2019

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...r-more-people/

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    Not condoning what the El Paso shooter did but there is definitely a Mexican invasion of America. Trump was spot on. Do whatever it takes to keep them out. Build that wall.

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    Senior Member Coillearnach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    The guns can be used both easily & effectively in many other crimes (robberies etc.) where nobody (luckily) will still not become shoot death. Increasing numbers of those directly or at least making those much easier to realize ... increasing the risk of them.
    I guess it's a matter of weighing the risk of an increase in fatalities vs possibly harming self defense (something like 2.5 million crimes are thwarted by the victim having a gun, most of the time not even firing it) and outright violating the 2nd amendment right to bear arms in the case of theoretical government tyranny.

    What is you attitude against automatic guns like AK-47?
    Personally, I see the logic of gun control, I think there is a proven and, most of the time, unnecessary risk in having them around at all - provoking aggression in some people, raising the risk of fatality in victims, ease of killing, accidents, etc. However, there may come a time when they may save my or my family's lives if someone broke in and it may give Americans at least a little bit of a chance at taking back the country in a theoretical future civil war, so I am willing to accept the risks. I also believe that most, if not all, conventional weapons should be legal in order to abide by the 2nd Amendment's prefatory clause - "[a] well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state", I think you would at the very least need assault rifles to overthrow a tyrannical government while also balancing a duty toward public safety in not allowing public possession of weapons of mass destruction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coillearnach View Post
    I also believe that most, if not all, conventional weapons should be legal in order to abide by the 2nd Amendment's prefatory clause - "[a] well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state", I think you would at the very least need assault rifles to overthrow a tyrannical government [...]
    Perhaps, if one's preferred combat tactic is like this:

    Full-automatic fire mostly plays a purpose in suppressive fire and gaining firepower superiority. I don't think a civilian militia is ever going to have the means to achieve firepower superiority over a State army. So their tactics would have to be focused differently anyhow.
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