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Thread: Dayton & El Paso Mass Shootings

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coillearnach View Post
    Personally, I see the logic of gun control, I think there is a proven and, most of the time, unnecessary risk in having them around at all - provoking aggression in some people, raising the risk of fatality in victims, ease of killing, accidents, etc. However, there may come a time when they may save my or my family's lives if someone broke in and it may give Americans at least a little bit of a chance at taking back the country in a theoretical future civil war, so I am willing to accept the risks.
    Yes, I think this is one of the biggest difference between average Americans and average Western Europeans.

    As...

    1.) Western Europeans opposite tends to see that the risks are much too high vs possible benefits.

    2.) Western Europeans don't see/believe that it is possibly to take country back (if/then needed) ... with using armed civil people.
    They think ... something like that could only happen ... with (unarmed) civil people whose side military and army would join/step.

    USA (as a country) tries to show up as a model country of democracy. But we know better (Europeans). So do our American friends here (who uses words like tyranny ... etc.). Yup ... Europeans are not fully naive, and don't trust their own leaders, but they still are not as much against their political elites as Americans are. In democracy ... it is ... people who should choose that elite. I guess something will not work?

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    El Paso congresswoman says Trump 'not welcome' in the city after mass shooting

    Source: USA Today

    WASHINGTON – Rep. Veronica Escobar, D-Texas, had a message for President Donald Trump.

    The Texas Democrat, who represents El Paso, the site of a recent mass shooting that left at least 20 people dead, said that Trump was "not welcome" in El Paso if he came to visit because of his inflammatory rhetoric about Latinos and immigrants.

    The death toll in the El Paso shooting increased to 22 on Monday. There are now 24 injured.

    El Paso police said the shooter published a "manifesto" before his shooting that had anti-immigrant and racist rhetoric, and authorities were investigating the attack as a potential hate crime. The suspect is a 21-year-old white man from Allen, Texas.

    "Words have consequences. The president has made my community and my people the enemy," said Escobar on MSNBC's "Morning Joe." "He has told the country that we are people to be feared, people to be hated."

    "I hope that [Trump] has the self-awareness to understand that we are in pain, and we are mourning, and we are doing the very best in our typical, graceful, El Paso way to be resilient," Escobar continued. "And so I would ask his staff and his team to consider the fact that his words and his actions have played a role in this."

    She added that Hispanic people "have been dehumanized by the president and his enablers" and that this was "one of the lowest points in American history."

    Lawmakers have called for action on gun control in the wake of the mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton, though they differ on the kinds of legislation. The House of Representatives has passed several bills to expand background checks for guns, but the Senate has not taken any action on the bills.

    Trump suggested in a Monday morning tweet that he wanted to link stronger background checks to "immigration reform," though he provided no details about how the two issues would be linked in legislation.

    Trump is expected to visit the sites of the shootings later this week. The Associated Press reported that the Federal Aviation Administration has issued advisories of VIP travel to El Paso and Dayton on Wednesday.
    "If we were going to stand in darkness, best we stand in a darkness we had made ourselves.” ― Douglas Coupland, Shampoo Planet

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    Yes, I think this is one of the biggest difference between average Americans and average Western Europeans.

    As...

    1.) Western Europeans opposite tends to see that the risks are much too high vs possible benefits.

    2.) Western Europeans don't see/believe that it is possibly to take country back (if/then needed) ... with using armed civil people.
    They think ... something like that could only happen ... with (unarmed) civil people whose side military and army would join/step.
    I think it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy that America's extreme distrust and perceived separation of common people from government actually causes elites to cultivate malevolent mentalities rather than carry themselves as some kind of filial caretakers of the same body.


    USA (as a country) tries to show up as a model country of democracy. But we know better (Europeans). So do our American friends here (who uses words like tyranny ... etc.). Yup ... Europeans are not fully naive, and don't trust their own leaders, but they still are not as much against their political elites as Americans are. In democracy ... it is ... people who should choose that elite. I guess something will not work?
    It's weird from the perspective of other British colonies, who share many of our legal traditions, I imagine it must be like visiting another planet from a Continental perspective. A perfect storm of experiments lead us to this point:

    1. Malevolent and/or irresponsible elites involved in initial colonization and founding
    2. Elite bungling combined with inspiration from the craziest continental political ideas and a population partially descended from persecuted zealots leads to revolution
    3. After revolution, even more atomized inter-state conflicts culminate in a system of government that actually does nothing to ameliorate tensions but slow down the rate of change by tying everyone's hands behind their backs
    4. Less than a hundred years later, existing tensions evolve into at least two competing notions of government and nationhood that trigger a civil war
    5. Losing half does not accept defeat despite humiliation and oppression by the other and this ends with adoption of a system of laws that partially replicate antebellum conditions for another half century
    6. Frontier with rules that you make up as you go along
    7. Epic mishandling of immigration and ethnogenesis denial trashes social trust to the point that people can only think of their common good in terms of economic and abstract social policy positions
    8. Fear of government (somewhat deserved) leads to blindness toward increased derangement of non-government actors
    9. WWI, WWII, endless succession of foreign ideological regime changes with unclear motivations at home
    10. Constantly and irreconcilably reinventing our national mythos until we lose all sense of reality and destroy ourselves

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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Perhaps, if one's preferred combat tactic is like this:

    Full-automatic fire mostly plays a purpose in suppressive fire and gaining firepower superiority. I don't think a civilian militia is ever going to have the means to achieve firepower superiority over a State army. So their tactics would have to be focused differently anyhow.
    I admittedly don't know much about guerilla tactics, sure you know more than I do, but I have read that fully automatics have been desirable for urban environments in many asymmetric conflicts recently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coillearnach View Post
    I admittedly don't know much about guerilla tactics, sure you know more than I do, but I have read that fully automatics have been desirable for urban environments in many asymmetric conflicts recently.
    My knowledge and experience on warfare basically boils down to watching YT videos and having shot with an AK one time. But from what I've gathered, full-automatic fire is something that looks good in movies, but has limited utility in most combat situations. It is, however, very useful if you're standing in the midst of an unsuspecting civilian crowd, and want to cause as much carnage as possible in a short amount of time (in reference to the benefits of being legally obtained versus its potential danger against civil society).

    There's some interesting points being brought up on full-automatic versus semi-automatic firearms in warfare here: https://www.quora.com/Why-do-militar...rely-ever-used

    Would be interesting to hear some of our combat veterans chime in on the issue as well.
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    8chan owner says El Paso shooter didn't post manifesto

    He implies the gunman used an Instagram account that hasn't been active in more than a year.



    Instagram said Tuesday that a hate-filled manifesto linked to the El Paso shooter wasn't uploaded to the Facebook-owned photo-sharing site as suggested by the owner of a fringe message board where the document was initially discovered.

    A spokeswoman for Facebook said it disabled an Instagram account tied to the suspected gunman on Saturday. The account hadn't been active for more than a year, she said.

    [...]

    The statement comes after Jim Watkins, the owner of the 8chan message board, suggested in a YouTube video that the document had been loaded to his site by a different user. Watkins, who appeared in front of an image of Benjamin Franklin, said the site had made law enforcement "aware" of the manifesto when it appeared.

    He also suggested -- but didn't state -- that the gunman, who killed 22 in the attack at a Walmart store, had posted the document to Instagram.

    "First of all, the El Paso shooter posted on Instagram, not 8chan," Watkins said in the video. "Later, someone uploaded the manifesto. However, that manifesto was not uploaded by the Walmart shooter. I don't know if he wrote it or not, but it was not uploaded by the murderer; that is clear."

    [...]
    https://www.cnet.com/news/8chan-owne...ost-manifesto/
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    The Dayton terrorist was a self-described “leftist” and Antifa supporter

    Screenshots of a Dayton man’s Twitter account appear to confirm that the shooter responsible for the horrific massacre at a Dayton restaurant was a proud leftist, according to his Twitter account’s own description.

    The account, @iamthespookster, has a number of tweets placing him in the Dayton Ohio area. Photos posted by the @iamthespookster account bear a striking resemblance to confirmed photos of the shooter, and followed a number of left-wing accounts, such as the Democratic Socialists Association of Dayton. The account also liked and retweeted a number of tweets that suggested he sympathized with Antifa.

    The alleged shooter account’s most recent follow was of an account by the name of “@accelerbot,” an account that retweets all mentions of “accelerationism.”

    If the term accelerationism sounds familiar, there may be a reason for that. The New Zealand Mosque shooter’s lengthy manifesto was heavily peppered with the word. Accelerationism, in this sense, is defined as “the idea that violence should be used to push Western countries into becoming failed states. Adherents hope the collapse will give rise to radical, presently unthinkable changes in our society.”

    Amongst the alleged shooter’s most recent tweets are a large number of retweets from anti-fa accounts, calling out the phrase “pool’s closed” as a far-right dog whistle, anti-police force tweets, as well as a variety of anti-Trump tweets. One retweet from the account specifically denounces U.S. Congressman Ted Cruz’s stance on Antifa.

    One reply shows the account replying to a Tweet asking if the Oregon shooter, a man who went into the Tecoma, Washington ICE detainment facility, was a martyr or a villain. He replies, “martyr.

    Another pair of retweets appear to give a glimpse of the accountholder’s mindset, stating that “if you’re going to get accused of being a terrorist just for protesting, maybe you should think about doing terrorist shit.”

    The account has remained dormant since the attack. The only change that can be observed is the number of people the account is “following.” This has been confirmed to be caused by people deleting their accounts or blocking the @Iamthespookster account. For example, the account that tweeted the “not actionable” call to arms @tacticaldipshit has since deleted his account.
    https://www.thepostmillennial.com/br...o-his-twitter/

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    Dayton Gunman Had Been Exploring ‘Violent Ideologies,’ F.B.I. Says

    The F.B.I. has opened a domestic terrorism investigation into the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooting.

    The gunman who killed three people and injured 13 in Gilroy, Calif., had a “target list” of religious institutions, Democratic and Republican political organizations, and federal buildings, the F.B.I. said Tuesday, announcing that it had opened a domestic terrorism investigation.

    The suspect had been exploring several “competing” violent ideologies, said John F. Bennett, the F.B.I. special agent in charge in San Francisco, at a news conference.

    Mr. Bennett said investigators had not yet uncovered a motive and were trying to determine which ideology, if any, the gunman had ultimately subscribed to, and if anyone had helped him prepare for the shooting. The list also included courthouses and the garlic festival, Mr. Bennett said.

    He said no people were named on the list, and that all the organizations operated nationally. The F.B.I. was in the process of notifying the targeted groups. Mr. Bennett said the shooter did not have a manifesto.

    The gunman fired 39 rounds in the shooting at the garlic festival on July 28, Scot Smithee, the Gilroy police chief, said Tuesday. Police found a 75-round drum magazine and five 40-round magazines near the gunman, who killed himself after being shot multiple times by the police, Chief Smithee said.

    {...}

    The Dayton gunman appeared to be ‘exploring violent ideologies,’ the F.B.I. said.

    Todd Wickerham, the special agent in charge of the F.B.I.’s Cincinnati field office, told reporters Tuesday afternoon that the investigation into the mass shooting in Dayton on Sunday had “uncovered evidence that the shooter was exploring violent ideologies.” He added that no evidence had been found suggesting a racial motivation for the shooting.

    Earlier, a federal law enforcement official said that the F.B.I. was looking at whether the Dayton gunman was associated with so-called incel groups. Incels, short for involuntary celibates, are misogynists who are deeply suspicious and disparaging of women, whom they blame for denying them what they see as their right to sexual intercourse.

    The F.B.I. views incels as a growing threat. But the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, stressed that the motive for the Dayton shooting remains unknown.

    Mr. Wickerham declined to give any details about the nature of the violent ideologies being explored by Connor Betts, the gunman who killed his sister and eight others in Dayton’s entertainment district in the early hours of Sunday morning.

    {...}

    Like others who knew Mr. Betts as a teenager, Ms. Carpenter recalled him making dark and often violent jokes, including riffs about “bodily harm” that led many to keep their distance.

    “He was kind of hateful to women because they didn’t want to date him,” she said. She became friends with him anyway because, she said, she saw that he had a good side.

    The Dayton police have cautioned that much about the shooting early Sunday remains unknown, including how it was that three people — Mr. Betts, his sister and a mutual friend — had gone out together and then one ended up shooting the other two. The friend, who has not been named by the police, was hit in his lower torso but survived; the sister, Megan Betts, 22, was killed.
    {...}
    Very long article
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    He is right on people protecting themselves vs. letting the government do it.

    Also since no one else will say it, I will. The innocents that get killed in these mass shootings are collateral damage, in no way shape or form should their deaths be used by the media or politicians to surrender our basic right of defense against the government. We don't have guns in America to protect ourselves from street level criminals, we have that right to protect ourselves from the government.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    In the US a person is just as likely to die in a automobile wreck as to die by a gun. Are we going to ban/restrict car ownership. Teddy Kennedy killed a woman with a car. When you subtract suicides & gang related gun deaths you are about 18x more likely to die in a automobile wreck. School children are more likely to die in an auto wreck on the way to or from school then to by being shot at school. Then there are the drug overdoses, which are likely under reported. Official drugs deaths are twice as high as gun deaths. A high school senior is more likely to die from a heroin overdose then a bullet. And the drugs are illegal or severely regulated. The mass shootings in the US are the result of a sick society that worships immigrants, feminazis & LGBT freaks and demonizes Whites & particularly straight White men.

    I was in San Diego in 1984 when a man named James Huberty walked into a McDonald's at the San Ysidro border crossing and killed 21, mostly Mexicans. He was mentally ill but I think his illness was caused, or at least severely aggravated, by the rapid demographic transitions brought about by the lack of immigration enforcement & Hispanicization. The dispossession & hardships caused by mass immigration is not spread out evenly over society. Some people don't notice, some are reaping the benefits (cheap domestics) while other are bearing the brunt of the problem while watching their futures and heritage slip away. You cannot subject people to persecution via cultural marxism, politically correct speech & thought enforced by social media/ostracism & not expect a reaction.

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