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Thread: The Gods Don't Care About Skin Color, According To...

  1. #21
    Member Tor Julius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicAfrican View Post
    a black man.

    I read an article, or post on the internet where this black man said for instance, the Norse gods don't care whoever worships them, and that they welcome all.

    Desperate to feel part of something it seems, since westernised black people have all but forgotten the gods their ancestors worshipped.
    The answer depends on what god.

    Odin is a god of many names, and he travel a lot. He disguise himself. So, is he also the god in christianity and islam, but only in a different name and look? Someone should ask him

    Thor is a god that protect everyone. I have red somewhere that they worshipped a god similar to our Thor on west-coast of Africa before christianity.

    But in asatru you will also find local gods and goddesses. Like Frey? (Sweden) and Torgerd Holgabrud (Northern Norway)

    If pagan negroes in Africa want to worship our gods the way we do, it is still strange. They should keep their own traditions.

  2. #22
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    There are some gods who will accept anyone and the Abrahamic religions in particular make no distinction between races. In fact, their believers try to recruit as widely as possible.

    Folkish gods, on the other hand, have been tailored to the specific culture and environment of their original followers. This is the main reason why Vikings made no serious attempts to spread their own faith in lands they'd conquered.

    It would be patently absurd for Africans to worship gods from the Norse pantheon when there's so much about them that they cannot relate to. Whatever would they make of tales about the frost giants of Jotunheim, for example

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  4. #23
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    I don't get the idea of supernatural nonhuman beings having some concern with the ancestry of their worshipers. Why would they care?

    Or are you saying that they're not real and you just made them up to have white gods?

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    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    Or are you saying that they're not real and you just made them up to have white gods?
    Well nobody knows exactly how and when the myths and sagas originated. There are a lot of metaphors in there and many deities are simply the personification of natural forces. Not all of them even had a human form but those that did would have no doubt been visualised by their worshipers as White.

    Asking whether our distant ancestors ‘just made them up to have white gods’ is invalid because this was the default option at that time in Northern Europe and there would have been no question of them being anything else.

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    Plus that Oðhinn appears as ancestor of both us as a people as well as the Æsir, so the gods literally are our ancestors.
    Heimdall, who's envisioned a white-skinned and white-haired, also (pro-)created the various ranks of society, reinforcing whiteness, fair appearance.

    There are only Volksgötter, Folk Gods, the gods and us are a holy unity, and then we of course also look alike. The gods would not recognise other peoples as their own, and would not answer to their prayers or rituals.

    Other people have their own folk gods. The idea of a universal god is a judeo-christian concept. And even this was depicted in ancient images to reflect the physical appearance of Jews/middle easterners/Semites. Because Jahwe is the Jewish Folk God, why should his son look different?

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    There are only Volksgötter, Folk Gods, the gods and us are a holy unity, and then we of course also look alike. The gods would not recognise other peoples as their own, and would not answer to their prayers or rituals.
    That's just patently untrue, we know that Ancient Indo-European peoples routinely adopted the worship of foreign gods. We have the Romans and Hittites as extreme examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Other people have their own folk gods. The idea of a universal god is a judeo-christian concept. And even this was depicted in ancient images to reflect the physical appearance of Jews/middle easterners/Semites. Because Jahwe is the Jewish Folk God, why should his son look different?

    Jesus was, to some extent, a real historical person, so depicting him as Jewish actually would make sense. It's not real comparable to personified nature spirits.

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  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Terror View Post
    That's just patently untrue, we know that Ancient Indo-European peoples routinely adopted the worship of foreign gods. We have the Romans and Hittites as extreme examples.
    And whose "foreign gods" would that have been? Which "foreign" god was adopted by the Romans?
    Dont say Greek, because the Romans and Greek were both Aryans, they share the same roots also of their mythology. Romans, having suffered from the ails of becoming a civilisation (which seems to have a natural devastating effect on culture), turned to Greek "presentation" of spirituality, but they didnt adopt the Greek version even of these, anyway same, gods.

    Rome was home to a range of various cults, the core religion and gods of the Romans however never changed.

    Rome promoted an ideology of respect towards other cults, and expected the same in return. You were supposed to pay tribute to the Roman gods, the foundation of the fine civilisation that you took advantage of by living in the empire. The Romans also paid tribute to the gods of people they conquered (there's this famous example of a Roman-built shrine to Nehelennia in nowadays Netherlands), this however was not an "adoption" of a foreign god, but the result of the respect philosophy of the Romans. This should be carefully seperated.

    Jesus was, to some extent, a real historical person, so depicting him as Jewish actually would make sense. It's not real comparable to personified nature spirits.
    While some gods represent natural forces, it would cut very short to reduce them to "nature spirits". Nature spirits are Elves, Dwarfs, Nisse etc which were (and are) part of our folk-lore, they are not "gods" however, but part of a holistic, natural world. And so are the gods, they are part of us, they're in us, they are not seperate from the world or us.

    It's unfortunate that people decide to follow a Jewish charlatan instead of their blood and what they are, who they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    And whose "foreign gods" would that have been? Which "foreign" god was adopted by the Romans?
    Dont say Greek, because the Romans and Greek were both Aryans, they share the same roots also of their mythology. Romans, having suffered from the ails of becoming a civilisation (which seems to have a natural devastating effect on culture), turned to Greek "presentation" of spirituality, but they didnt adopt the Greek version even of these, anyway same, gods.

    Rome was home to a range of various cults, the core religion and gods of the Romans however never changed.

    Rome promoted an ideology of respect towards other cults, and expected the same in return. You were supposed to pay tribute to the Roman gods, the foundation of the fine civilisation that you took advantage of by living in the empire. The Romans also paid tribute to the gods of people they conquered (there's this famous example of a Roman-built shrine to Nehelennia in nowadays Netherlands), this however was not an "adoption" of a foreign god, but the result of the respect philosophy of the Romans. This should be carefully seperated.
    If you want non-Indo-European deities, we have the Egyptian cult of Isis which was widely popular with the common people of Rome far beyond Egypt. We also have the adoption of the worship of the Semitic deity Elagabalus (El ha-Gabal), which reached it's peak under the Emperor of the same name, though he earned ire for attempting to put his deity on the top of the pantheon. We have the Romans and earlier Hellenistic Greeks invoking prayers to the Jewish god in papyri. And of course there is the Cult of Mithras that was so widely popular among soldiers, or Cybele, a national goddess of Rome that was adopted from the Phrygians, who in turn adopted it from Mesopotamians. The Romans did not have a policy of 'respect', they had a tradition of subjugation, they took gods from conquered people to redirect their blessings to the Roman state. It's not respect, it's conquest.

    You're also aware that Rome was a multiracial society, right? Several emperors were of Semitic (Septimus Severus, Elagabalus, Philip the Arab), or North African (Severus, Caracalla, Geta). Yet all were very much Romans and practiced Roman religion, despite not being Indo-Europeans.

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  14. #29
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    The claim in the title of this thread is true to the extent we don't have any evidence pointing to the contrary. Many neopagans seem to confuse their ideological desire to become a pagan with the theological foundations of said paganism. If your desire for ethnic and cultural purity leads you to adopt the religion of your ancestors (which is fine), this doesn't mean that this religion of your ancestors is in fact a religion founded on the notion of ethnic and cultural purity.
    Everything in Germanic paganism which answers to the desire for ethnic purity is either circumstantial or has to go through a lot of interpretation. I.e. there is no religious dogma in paganism that states that ethnic purity is a good thing. You can perhaps construct this notion on the basis of their tribal societies, but one does not necessarily follow from the other. If anything, ethnic mixing existed both in Germanic pagan tribal life, as well as in Germanic mythology. Of course this is also no justification of mixing. It is neither.

    The Germanic gods are therefor only folk gods when we approach them through the lens of scientific anthropology. But for the adherents of this faith they were gods. Their existence didn't stop at the tribal border. Hence the possibility of equating one's own gods with those of others (interpretatio romana, etc.)

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    There are some who believe that God created man in his own image and others who believe that men created gods in their own image.

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