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Thread: ‘Without Christianity, Europe Has No Soul’

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Yes, the modern churches are useless at best and traitors at worst and go hand in hand with their atheist companions (obviously not meaning all atheists here, just those actively suporting migration).
    As for whether the churches changed, yes, they did because they went with the outside events and forgot their roots. They were affected by it, as were all Swedes, not the active cause of it.
    But real Christianity of the past did not advocate for this and the modern churches can do what they do because they're simply entirely in line with the politics of Sweden. They could not help migration if there was political will to the contrary.
    Well ... let us give back old churches. But until then ...
    But a updated version ... as a girl ... I don't prefer much the witch hunt times.

    You want to hear what I think? They (church) changed as they simply were too afraid to loose their position in societies (= popularity).
    They did it pure selfish reasons. That still is not a huge surprise as those people are humans just like anybody else.

    Over all religion(s) are like ancient relics from times people knew much less; and what a more humans are learning (science etc.) the less rooms to move/be religions will have. It might work if one keeps people uncivilized enough (like in many muslim countries) ... but even then ... not forever.

  2. #22
    Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves.
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    I just afformative. Many priests are PC. Our only hope the priests who stand against the PC and say nationalistic sentences in the mass. Well, I am a christian who sit in the mass at sonday.

    "Remember that, even when those who move you be kings or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus,"or that virtue "was not convenient at the time." This will not suffice."
    /King Baldwin IV in the Kingdom of Heaven/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolgadeutscher View Post
    The Vikings raped women as well, including Germanic and foreign ones, and captured them as slaves during raids. They also intermarried and took foreign wives. When people idolize the Vikings and pagans as some sort of role models, they're seeing things through rosy glasses.
    Everyone did pretty nasty things back in those days (incl. Vikings). Raping women were part of norm (if someone succeed to conquer new area). Before time of Christian religion, and unfortunately even much after it.

    But for example this (below) is one thing which I really rises my temper as reading it. Christians (and not huge time ago) hunted and sold another Christians to muslims as slaves. I think this kind of action between 2 Christians (Orthodox and Lutherians) never happened anywhere else in world? Christians surely had taken slaves earlier but only among of so called pagan people.

    https://mikedashhistory.com/2015/01/...dieval-crimea/

    https://www.uef.fi/en/news-and-event...ent/id/2095996


    The same happened even 1708 - 1730 as Sweden had lost the control of area of Finland to Russians. And by then it focused directly against Finland's Swedish/Germanic population. Against my people.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlan...t_Northern_War

    So don't be surprise anymore if there are rare blue eyes muslims in Middle East.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Finnish Swede For This Useful Post:


  5. #24
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    SP: On the contrary; without Christianity there would probably be another 100 million souls alive in Europe today!
    Juthunge: Could you elaborate why you think this is the case? I had no idea Christianity was to blame for WWI and WWII...
    I didn't say that Christianity was the prime motor for every war. However, the religious conflicts of the 16th - 18th centuries were cataclysmic events and the Thirty Years' War cost the German States about half of their populations at that time.

    I seriously don't get how anyone can hold a world view that basically has to see the last 1.000-1.400 years (depending on when Christianity was established in a territory) of European and Germanic history as a single great error with nothing good having come from that.
    This is not my opinion. What I have heard though, from some of our more vocal Christians, is that Europe is nothing without Christianity. This is repeated ad nauseam and even the thread title: "Without Christianity, Europe has no soul" once again makes this claim.

    I find this very reductive because there's a lot more to Europe than just its religion but, as usual, we've gone right away from the OP with which I broadly agree. Here is a reminder ...

    The newly opened House of European History has a blind spot: It entirely omits the role that religion played in European history. According to a new essay from Arnold Huijgen at Religion & Liberty Transatlantic, when it comes to religion, the $61 million museum in Brussels, built by the European Parliament, is “an empty House.” Instead, the EU displaces the Divine in its exhibits.
    The EU has gone and built a shrine to itself because, in their arrogance, the Eurocrats think that 'European History' is all about them!

    IMO, any building pretentiously called "The House of European History" cannot possibly ignore religion which (..for better or worse ) has shaped much of the continent's history.

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    Samuel Adams, Signer of the Declaration of Independence“I … [rely] upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.” – Samuel Adams
    “We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and with a propitious eye beholds his subjects assuming that freedom of thought , and dignity of self-direction which he bestowed on them. From the rising to the setting of the sun, may His Kingdom come.”
    – Samuel Adams

    United States Congressional Endorsement of the Bible and God
    Congress printed a Bible for America and said:
    “The United States in Congress assembled … recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States … a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools.”
    – United States Congress 1782
    “Congress passed this resolution: “The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.”
    – United States Congress 1782

    John Adams, President of the United States of America, First Vice President, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Signer of the Bill of Rights, and Signer of First Amendment
    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
    – John Adams
    Jesus pardoning Adams' sins is a personal issue, one that many of the Founding Fathers wrestled with at one time or another. It is not a government endorsement.

    'Restoring the Sovereign' is directed at the King of Britain, whose rule was being vacated and self-rule for the Colonies being enacted. 'The Sovereign' is of course God, but in the sense that instead of loyalty being given to the King, the Colonies were free to give their loyalty elsewhere. Adams spoke these words as part of a speech given in 1776 immediately following the signing of the Declaration of Independence (note that there was no Constitution at that time, nor would there be such for another nearly 13 years).

    That Congress had a Bible published for use in schools was no more than a matter of supply- Congress had ordered a shipment of Bibles from Scotland and Holland 1777, at a cost of nearly $2 million in modern currency. Four years later, a Mr Aitken offered to print Bibles under government contract for less, resulting in the 'Aitken Bible' being the first American-published Bible in the Colonies. Out of the 10,000 copies being printed, only some 35 copies remain extant.

    Adams' comment on the Constitution being made for a moral and religious people is all well and good, but one cannot fail to note that it does not specify Christianity or Christians as being the sole recipients of the document's provisions.


    When someone asks, "What would Jesus do?" remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is entirely possible.

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    Senior Member Coillearnach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post

    ...But for example this (below) is one thing which I really rises my temper as reading it. Christians (and not huge time ago) hunted and sold another Christians to muslims as slaves. I think this kind of action between 2 Christians (Orthodox and Lutherians) never happened anywhere else in world? Christians surely had taken slaves earlier but only among of so called pagan people.

    https://mikedashhistory.com/2015/01/...dieval-crimea/

    https://www.uef.fi/en/news-and-event...ent/id/2095996


    The same happened even 1708 - 1730 as Sweden had lost the control of area of Finland to Russians. And by then it focused directly against Finland's Swedish/Germanic population. Against my people.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlan...t_Northern_War

    So don't be surprise anymore if there are rare blue eyes muslims in Middle East.
    I didn't know that about the Great Northern War. After researching that, I found that a similar thing happened in Constantinople in the 12th century after the Massacre of the Latins, 4,000 Latin Catholics were sold into slavery by the Byzantines to the Turks. It was also mentioned in the Council of Toledo that Christian clerics were selling Christian slaves to Jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coillearnach View Post
    I didn't know that about the Great Northern War. After researching that, I found that a similar thing happened in Constantinople in the 12th century after the Massacre of the Latins, 4,000 Latin Catholics were sold into slavery by the Byzantines to the Turks. It was also mentioned in the Council of Toledo that Christian clerics were selling Christian slaves to Jews.
    Ok. Great Northern War just happened 600 years later.

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