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Thread: ‘Without Christianity, Europe Has No Soul’

  1. #11
    aka Johan the Blind Goodman John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwab View Post
    That goes for America too.
    As a little boy I learned in school that America was a Christian Nation. Is it still a Christian nation? May be by name only. Values have changed even among Christians.
    America was never intended to be a 'Christian nation' by the Founding Fathers, nor does our Constitution mention anything touching on this aside from the 'separation of church and state' language found in the 1st Amendment and the prohibition of any 'religious test' for public office found in Article 6.

    Thomas Jefferson was a Deist, and when he wrote the Declaration of Independence he specifically avoided using Christian terms in the document, intending it to be for all men of all religions in the Colonies. James Madison and allies eliminated the church founded by the Colony of Virginia and helped pass laws for religious freedom. One need only a cursory knowledge of the Treaty of Tripoli (1797) to know that it explicitly states that "...the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

    It goes without saying that among those Americans who are religious, Christianity is overwhelmingly the religion of choice. But sadly, it's a great number of those professed Christians who don't even bother to attend church or even read their Bibles- it's a secular sort of Christianity, which pretty much translates to not at all. All those rules and Commandments are so inconvenient when it's time to party or kill people, you know.
    When someone asks, "What would Jesus do?" remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is entirely possible.

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  3. #12
    Senior Member Astragoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan the Blind View Post
    America was never intended to be a 'Christian nation' by the Founding Fathers, nor does our Constitution mention anything touching on this aside from the 'separation of church and state' language found in the 1st Amendment and the prohibition of any 'religious test' for public office found in Article 6.

    Thomas Jefferson was a Deist, and when he wrote the Declaration of Independence he specifically avoided using Christian terms in the document, intending it to be for all men of all religions in the Colonies. James Madison and allies eliminated the church founded by the Colony of Virginia and helped pass laws for religious freedom. One need only a cursory knowledge of the Treaty of Tripoli (1797) to know that it explicitly states that "...the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

    It goes without saying that among those Americans who are religious, Christianity is overwhelmingly the religion of choice. But sadly, it's a great number of those professed Christians who don't even bother to attend church or even read their Bibles- it's a secular sort of Christianity, which pretty much translates to not at all. All those rules and Commandments are so inconvenient when it's time to party or kill people, you know.

    Not this again..............
    The founding fathers were all Christians and the USA was founded on Christian principals. What they didn't want was a state religion.
    The real power and language was in the state constitutions. Several of whom had language stating that you had to be a white male protestant to even hold office.
    Here are some Christian quotes.
    Samuel Adams, Signer of the Declaration of Independence“I … [rely] upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.” – Samuel Adams
    “We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and with a propitious eye beholds his subjects assuming that freedom of thought , and dignity of self-direction which he bestowed on them. From the rising to the setting of the sun, may His Kingdom come.”
    – Samuel Adams
    “The name of the Lord, says the Scripture, is a strong Tower; thither the righteous flee and are safe [Proverbs 18:10]. Let us secure His favor and He will lead us through the journey of this life and at length receive us to a better.”
    – Samuel Adams
    United States Congressional Endorsement of the Bible and God
    Congress printed a Bible for America and said:
    “The United States in Congress assembled … recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States … a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools.”
    – United States Congress 1782
    “Congress passed this resolution: “The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.”
    – United States Congress 1782
    “By Law the United States Congress adds to US coinage:”
    “In God We Trust”– United States Congress 1864
    John Adams, President of the United States of America, First Vice President, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Signer of the Bill of Rights, and Signer of First Amendment
    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
    – John Adams
    “The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.” – John Quincy Adams“The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” – John Quincy Adams

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    If Swedish for example would still believe their old pagan Gods ... I bet there would not be that much refugees.

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    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    If Swedish for example would still believe their old pagan Gods ... I bet there would not be that much refugees.
    When Sweden was Christian under Gustav II. Adolf, the Swedes were hardly feeble, nor were the following Caroleans (have you ever heard of the Swedish Empire?) or the volunteers that fought Russia in Finland.

    To make this a matter of religion is simply ridiculous. The state of Sweden and the West as a whole, is a result of the last 50-70 years, with it's roots in the ideas of the French revolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    On the contrary; without Christianity there would probably be another 100 million souls alive in Europe today!
    Could you elaborate why you think this is the case? I had no idea Christianity was to blame for WWI and WWII...


    I seriously don't get how anyone can hold a world view that basically has to see the last 1.000-1.400 years (depending on when Christianity was established in a territory) of European and Germanic history as a single great error with nothing good having come from that.

    I'm not Christian but this simply makes me cringe. What a dismal look upon our history this must be. The truth is, until quite recently we thrived under/with whichever religion we lived.
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


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    Senior Member Herr Rentz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    This is sadly true. Churches have been affected by political correctness just as much as any other sector of public life. This country is, if anything, less Christian than ever. Some of today's churches support behavior that would have otherwise been considered sinful or even blasphemous, such as homosexuality, transsexuality or adultery. The lack of adherence to Christian cultural values has been eroding the soul of our people...
    I agree. These religions pay lip service to the Bible while at the same time allowing sexual deviants into their folds. Biggest bunch of hypocrites since Democrats were invented. They'll all burn in Hell.


    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
    – John Adams

    Maybe that's why this country is falling apart; there are no more moral and religious people left and another form of Government is needed to govern the degenerates and deviants found here. After being rounded up of course.
    American by birth, made of parts from Emmingen, Baden-Württemberg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    When Sweden was Christian under Gustav II. Adolf, the Swedes were hardly feeble, nor were the following Caroleans (have you ever heard of the Swedish Empire?) or the volunteers that fought Russia in Finland.
    Swedish Empire? Nope; but my mother's ancestors strangely arrived from Sweden to Finland at 17th century (sarcasm I).
    Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden? Who was he? A person who has statue in Stockholm, in Gothenburg and even in Tartu (Estonia)? Nope, no any idea (sarcasm II)

    So? Church here is very independent part of society (its position and ''money income'' has been saved/protected by laws ... no matter who will be leading Sweden). It has moved/changed like it has decided .... inwardly. Nobody outside has forced it to. Today ... I don't want to write here what I think about it (as hiding immigrants which have gotten deportation orders/status). Only as I respect feelings of those who still believe higher power here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    To make this a matter of religion is simply ridiculous. The state of Sweden and the West as a whole, is a result of the last 50-70 years, with it's roots in the ideas of the French revolution.
    See my reply above. Nobody ''forced'' church to follow what has happened (or not happened) outside. It has done it by itself!
    Plus are you saying that Vikings Gods were equally or even more forgiven? If outsiders are raping your daughters...

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    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    So? Church here is very independent part of society (its position and ''money income'' has been saved/protected by laws ... no matter who will be leading Sweden). It has moved/changed like it has decided .... inwardly. Nobody outside has forced it to. Today ... I don't want to write here what I think about it (as hiding immigrants which have gotten deportation orders/status). Only as I respect feelings of those who still believe higher power here.

    See my reply above. Nobody ''forced'' church to follow what has happened (or not happened) outside. It has done it by itself!
    Yes, the modern churches are useless at best and traitors at worst and go hand in hand with their atheist companions (obviously not meaning all atheists here, just those actively suporting migration).
    As for whether the churches changed, yes, they did because they went with the outside events and forgot their roots. They were affected by it, as were all Swedes, not the active cause of it.
    But real Christianity of the past did not advocate for this and the modern churches can do what they do because they're simply entirely in line with the politics of Sweden. They could not help migration if there was political will to the contrary.


    Plus are you saying that Vikings Gods were equally or even more forgiven? If outsiders are raping your daughters...
    When someone raped a woman in the past he was beheaded in Christian Europe and if he killed her he was broken on the wheel. As I said, it has nothing to do with religion. Don't act like it is a super-influential power in modern secular Sweden anyway.
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


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    Most modern Western countries identify as either secular or atheist and embrace feminism, multiculturalism and immigration. On the other hand, Central and Eastern European societies, where Christianity has yet to die out have taken a stand against such ideologies. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that the death of our morals coincides with the loss of Christian values. In atheist society, moral relativity reigns. It's a "human right" to be a slut, and a "cultural misunderstanding" if a woman is raped by a Muslim immigrant. Everything is relative.

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    First of all I have to comment on this :

    the quest for freedom of religion that was at the heart of the Dutch Revolt
    Not really. A major of the official declaration (Plakkaat van Verlatinghe) was about how Filip II was infringing on traditional rights and privileges. Now there was religious component, since the local rulers where not that enthusiastic about plans to install inquisitors in their territories. But that was in a large part also seen as in an infringement in their rights and privileges to deal with the religious tensions as they saw fit. And the actions of groups like the Watergeuzen before they came under the formal jurisdiction of the magistrates of Holland can also hardly be considered as actions taking in a fight for religious freedom and more as part of the wider violent conflicts between Catholicism and Protestantism that affected a wider area of Europe then just the Netherlands.

    It has been argued that (at least when it comes to our Germanic countries) that mediveal Christianity underwent a process of Germanization in order to make becoming a Christian more appealing. And one could argue that a similar process had also taken place in the Roman Empire, alto I am not aware of any publications that deal with such a possibility. James C. Russell had argued in the book I linked to above that the Catholic Church has since Vatican II been shedding these influences to the detriment of the Church. And of course Protestantism attempted this several centuries earlier. The late Netherlandic preacher Henk Vreekamp made a similar point in his book Zwijgen bij volle maan. He of course was severally attacked by both fundamentalist protestants and orthodox Jews for stating that Christians should not ignore the Germanic influences on Christianity.

    Now the there are thinkers like Alain de Benoist, who go a step further. And argue that political ideologies like liberalism have their spiritual roots in Christianity.
    The sense of honor is of so fine and delicate a nature that
    it is only to be met with in minds which are naturally noble or
    cultivated by good examples and a refined education.
    - Sir Richard Steele

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    Plus are you saying that Vikings Gods were equally or even more forgiven? If outsiders are raping your daughters...
    The Vikings raped women as well, including Germanic and foreign ones, and captured them as slaves during raids. They also intermarried and took foreign wives. When people idolize the Vikings and pagans as some sort of role models, they're seeing things through rosy glasses.

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