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Thread: Thread Split: Holy War (God Wills It)

  1. #11
    Senior Member Astragoth's Avatar
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    Usually heretics were considered heretics for a reason. The Cathars were the ones that practiced predatory lending as I recall.
    They had no objections to contraception, euthanasia or suicide. They also considered men and women and good and evil equals.
    Something the Bible contradicts.

  2. #12
    aka Johan the Blind Goodman John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    Usually heretics were considered heretics for a reason. The Cathars were the ones that practiced predatory lending as I recall.
    They had no objections to contraception, euthanasia or suicide. They also considered men and women and good and evil equals.
    Something the Bible contradicts.
    The Church considered the Cathars to be 'heretics' but it really doesn't work because in order to be a heretic one has to be a member of the Church first and then rebel against its teachings. The Cathars never were a part of the Church, nor did they regard it as in any way legitimate. The 'heretic' accusation was used by the Church in pretty much the same way we use the label 'terrorist': anyone we don't like or want out of the way.

    As for monetary practices, I don't recall reading of that but it's certainly not impossible they made money off of lending. The Templars did it, and got VERY rich in doing so, so why not others?

    You're correct about contraception, euthanasia, and suicide. Some used 'other methods' (ie anal sex, oral sex, etc) to avoid childbirth, and of course during the trials by the Inquisition the charge of sodomy was laid on many Cathars. (Interestingly enough, though, if the person thus charged were married he and his wife were forced to have 'normal'- vaginal- sex in front of the interrogators to 'prove' their innocence. I hope there was some similar option for single men and women to 'prove their innocence'- otherwise they were likely SOL). Euthanasia was sometimes used to speed one along in one's death- at their request, never just on a whim- and suicide via the Endura (a self-imposed hunger strike, refusing all food and water) was considered an honorable end to one's life, particularly if one had taken the vows as a Perfect.

    In Cathar thinking, our bodies were no more than 'meat sacks' for the spirits that inhabited us. Thus, men and women were indeed regarded as equals (since spirits are thought to be genderless). Physical attraction and sex was seen as just part of the 'human experience' and as all were equal there was essentially no religious stigma on opposite- or same-sex relations. There were undoubtedly cultural concerns, but as far as the faith was concerned 'good sex is where you find it'. Yet another weapon for the Inquisition to use, sadly.

    And, regarding good and evil, the Cathars were essentially Dualists in their view that both Good and Evil (represented by God and Satan) exist and are in constant struggle. Some, though, took the Mitigated Dualist point of view (that Good is always stronger than Evil, although Evil would 'win' sometimes).

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  4. #13
    Senior Member Uwe Jens Lornsen's Avatar
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    warfare in the New Testament

    About warfare one paragraph from the new testament comes in mind :


    Captain of Capernaum, about to follow orders :
    Healing the centurion's servant is one of the miracles said to have been performed by Jesus of Nazareth as related in the Gospels of Matthew[1] and Gospel of Luke (both part of the Christian biblical canon). The story is not recounted in the Gospels of either John or Mark.[2]

    According to these accounts, a Roman Centurion asks Jesus for his help because his servant is ill. Jesus offers to go to the centurion's house to perform a healing, but the centurion hesitates and suggests that Jesus' word of authority would be sufficient. Impressed, Jesus comments approvingly at the strong religious faith displayed by the soldier (despite not being a Jew) and grants the request, which results in the servant being healed the same day.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healin...on%27s_servant
    Mk 10:18 What do you call me a good master, no-one is good .

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    It would be nice if the faith healers of today would study Biblical history and events.

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    aka Johan the Blind Goodman John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwab View Post
    It would be nice if the faith healers of today would study Biblical history and events.
    If I need brain surgery and I have a choice between an atheist brain surgeon and a faith-healing preacher with a truckload of prayers, I'm pretty sure I'm going with the atheist surgeon.
    When someone asks, "What would Jesus do?" remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is entirely possible.

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    Miracle healings still happen these days but not a la "Benny Hinn", if you know who he is.
    It always comes down to that money grabbing gospel.

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    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech View Post
    The crusades were a necessary (pro-active) defensive action, both in Spain and the Levant. And the crusaders who fell in battle were martyrs who went straight to Heaven.
    And 72 virgins waiting for them.

    The path of the holy warrior does please God, it's one way of achieving a state of grace, no matter what modern Christians say.
    Just bad that christians fight for the wrong cause, always did, always will.

    And non-denominational is another word for "definitely mistaken" because Christians should not and can not have their own take on scripture, it only creates confusion (the confusion you yourself are so much against, Schwab), it's the way Satan wants it - such activities are not inspired by the Holy Spirit. Membership of the Church left to us by Christ, that of St. Peter, is absolutely crucial. And that Church wasn't created yesterday by some guy in America or anywhere else, it can only be the Orthodox and/or Catholic churches because only they can lay claim to an unbroken tradition and hence legitimacy
    Unbroken tradition in Judaism lite, for the retarded gentiles to support their cause, indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thor
    The Crusades were some of the only useful events which was spawned by a Europe unified in Christianity.
    Europe (luckily) never was "unified", and the crusades, I guess you mean those against moslems, are the very reason why Islam ditched its Arab-only dogma and became just as "universalist" (read: missionizing) as christianity.

    More crusades were made, however, against Pagan Europeans. Olaf the (very un)holy killed thousands of Norwegians, many other crusades were made against Saxons, Swedes, Frisians and Baltic peoples between 700 and around 1100 CE. But of course it's great when communists kill the peoples they claim to "save", and "successful" subduction of the survivors is now hailed as a "unified" Europe. Of course it "pleases the Jewish folk god" to do so.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

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    Jesus explained a lot of things with parables..........

    Let’s read Luke 19:27, “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” This is the last sentence in a parable the Lord Jesus was giving. I encourage you to read this entire parable which is given in Luke 19:12-27.
    This verse speaks of the final judgment of those who have rejected the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior. It has nothing to do with earthly wars.

    Parables are parables.

    It is as clear as day and night............

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    Interesting of you being a non Christian is trying to explain what Christians should believe and do using Scriptures which you don't believe in.

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    Warfare in the New Testament

    I found some further paragraphs about war in the New Testament :


    Jesus bringing the sword, not peace ...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_10#Verse_34
    "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send [or bring] peace, but a sword."[8]

    THis one denies David's success against Goliath
    Luke 14:31,32
    https://biblehub.com/luke/14-31.htm
    31 Or what king on his way to war with another king will not first sit down
    and consider whether he can engage with ten thousand men the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
    32 And if he is unable, he will send a delegation while the other king is still far off, to ask for terms of peace.…



    Special page at wikipedia about military metaphors :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Te...tary_metaphors
    Mk 10:18 What do you call me a good master, no-one is good .

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