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Thread: Why Christianity is Losing Ground (A Personal Opinion)

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    aka Johan the Blind Goodman John's Avatar
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    Why Christianity is Losing Ground (A Personal Opinion)

    (DISCLAIMER: I am not a Christian; I left the faith a long time ago. This is simply an observation of the current state of affairs as I see it.)

    Recent reports have made the claim that Christianity is losing ground to Islam as well as a collection of smaller, more indigenous faiths that are on the rise. Why is this?

    In my opinion, the primary reason the Church (not just the Catholic Church, but the Christian faith in total) is seen as ineffectual is because it IS ineffectual today. In former times, when Christians were under attack, the Church would get fired up and take care of business. Today we see Christians being oppressed in this and that land, and what does the Church do to protect its own? NADA.

    Muslims, largely being Arabic, have a cultural respect for courage and strength, and generally do not tolerate weak leaders and losers. So how to deal with Muslims oppressing Christians and burning churches and such? How about DOING something about it? Offering mealy-mouthed protests is wasting one's breath, clearly. Where are the Church leaders and Christians who are willing to put their money where their mouths are and go get some payback? In the old days, you'd see thousands of troops marching under the protection and blessing of the Church heading toward the latest trouble spot to kick ass and take names. These days? Not a single hand being raised in defense of the faith.

    And what does this do in the larger scheme of things? It makes Christians and Christianity look weak. If you can't take the fight to the enemy or at the very least defend yourselves why on earth would anyone consider joining you any longer? Prayers are one thing, but faith doesn't help if the other side has superior firepower AND their faith backing them up. Who is looking strong and who is looking weak? Who wants to join a losing team?

    If Christians aren't willing to lay it on the line in defense of their faith in God and their brothers and sisters in the Church, why on earth (or in heaven) would God lift a finger to help them in their own times of need? If you can't be bothered, why should he give a damn either?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan the Blind View Post
    Muslims, largely being Arabic, have a cultural respect for courage and strength, and generally do not tolerate weak leaders and losers.
    I think you touch on the crux of the issue right there. This is a problem we face on an ethnic and civilizational level. White people in general have gotten passive, timid, cowardly and tolerant, and the Church is no exception. The weaknesses among contemporary Christians which you mention, can just as easily be applied to the vast majority of Atheists, Heathens, or whatever other religious and social group, with the common denominator being that they're White Westerners. The root source of this is not the Church itself, but the degeneration of the ethnic culture surrounding it.
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

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    Many Christians are Christians by name only (CINOS)
    They cling to their denomination like I'm a Catholic, a protestant, a baptist, a Pentecostal, a presbyterian and so on. They have differences in interpreting the Scriptures. They want a designer religion that fits their needs. They chose a verse here and there and conceive a new gospel. They are walking away from the Cross and the shed blood by Jesus Christ for remission of sins. "You must be born again" is misunderstood. The word "GRACE" has no meaning anymore. They rather believe what the priest or pastor preaches, they fail to study the Scriptures and fail to communicate with GOD.
    How about ISLAM? Is it a religion of peace? They sure hate Christians and Jews......
    Saheeh International: "O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are (in fact) allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you -- then indeed, he is (one) of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people."
    Arberry: "O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. God guides not the people of the evildoers."
    The Noble Qur'an: "O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong*doers and unjust)."
    The Message of The Quran says: "O you who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another -- and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers."
    The Qur'an tells Muslims to kill and go to war to fight for Islam: Quran, chapters (Surahs) 9:5; 2:191; 2:193; 3:118; 4:75,76; 5:33, 8:12; 8:65; 9:73,123; 33:60-62.
    Fight for Allah: "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers, (Quran 2:191).
    Muslims are to battle for Allah: "Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak," (Quran 4:76).
    Kill those against Islam: "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter," (Quran 5:33).
    Beheading: "When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. 13That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment," (Quran 8:12).
    Allah urges war: "O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand," (Quran 8:65).
    Slay non-Muslims: "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful," (Quran 9:5).
    Allah urges war: "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination," (Quran 9:73).
    Allah urges war: "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil)," (Quran 9:123).
    Allah urges killing: " . . . the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist . . . 61Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering. 62(Such has been) the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and you shall not find any change in the course of Allah, (Quran 33:60-62).
    Beheading: "Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens . . . " (Quran 47:4).
    Allah loves those who fight for him: "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure," (Quran 61:4).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan the Blind View Post
    If Christians aren't willing to lay it on the line in defense of their faith in God and their brothers and sisters in the Church, why on earth (or in heaven) would God lift a finger to help them in their own times of need? If you can't be bothered, why should he give a damn either?
    Yes, why should he? He has been sleeping so damn deeply ... his church burned innocent women alive (as witches), Black Death killed 30% of whole European population, WWI , WWII .... list goes and goes on etc.

    Looks like he has more interesting matters than care/think what madness humans are doing.
    .

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    Some clarification on random parts of post #3:

    Fight for Allah:
    Why wouldn't God teach his followers to fight for their faith? However in this passage, one has to read it in context of the surrounding passages; if you do this you realize this is simply enjoining Muslims to fight against those who drove them out of their houses (ie, defensive war). It also notes that fighting is not to take place in the Haram (the great mosque of Mecca) unless Muslims are attacked there first.

    Kill those against Islam: Again, why would you NOT defend your faith? Another example of defensive war, and also a reminder to punish those who disrupt society.

    Allah urges war: In matters of faith, are two hundred believers stronger than a thousand non-believers? One would think so, and in thinking so one would have the courage to face incredible odds in battle.

    Slay non-Muslims: When war is going on, sure enough, take the fight to the enemy. But if they surrender and either convert or pay the tax and live peacefully as dhimmis (non-Muslims in a Muslim land), then all is well.

    Beheading: Not what it appears to be. This is in reference to the battle of Badr, fought in 624, between Muslim and infidel forces. The instructions given to the Muslim soldiers were to cut the foreheads of enemies and cut off their fingertips. Why? Because the battle was expected to be particularly bloody and there had to be a quick way to identify the dead or wounded as friend or foe. Cut head and missing fingers? Probably an enemy and not likely to be put on the medevac list any time soon. That's all it is, simple one-time battle instructions.

    Allah loves those who fight for him: Does God not love and appreciate those who fight for him as well?

    ~~~

    None of this is intended to diminish or 'explain away' those crimes committed by Muslims in the name of God, but it IS intended to illustrate that unless one reads and understands the Qur'an in its proper context then it's rather futile to pull spectacular passages out to 'prove' Islam teaches bad things. It's the easiest thing to pull suras from the Qur'an and verses from the Bible and- without any context- twist them to mean whatever you like, good or bad.

    Note, also, that my original post was not intended to spark a debate between the merits of Religions X and Y- only to be an observation on one reason why I think Christianity on the whole is losing ground to Islam and other faiths. It's not an issue of one faith being 'better' than the other at all, only a matter of how seriously this or that faith's followers take their responsibilities to 'protect and defend' their own.

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    I lived among those Islamists in North Africa. Don't try to teach me anything about Islam, been there and done it in the fifties. Political Islam has no place in our Western society, sharia laws do not mix with our Constitution. Islam is a religion of terror and Jihad.
    Did you every interrogate a terrorist and what he believes in the name of Islam?

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    Quote Originally Posted by schwab View Post
    I lived among those Islamists in North Africa. Don't try to teach me anything about Islam, been there and done it in the fifties. Political Islam has no place in our Western society, sharia laws do not mix with our Constitution. Islam is a religion of terror and Jihad.
    Did you every interrogate a terrorist and what he believes in the name of Islam?
    The question is not in regard to Islam or Christianity being good or bad, or what each teaches. The issue I was addressing is that- for whatever reason(s)- Islam and other religions are gaining in popularity while Christianity is in a slow but steady decline and what- if anything- Christians are doing to reverse this trend.

    If a X versus Y discussion is desired, I invite any and all to begin another topic of discussion; this one is not intended for that purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    I think you touch on the crux of the issue right there. This is a problem we face on an ethnic and civilizational level. White people in general have gotten passive, timid, cowardly and tolerant, and the Church is no exception. The weaknesses among contemporary Christians which you mention, can just as easily be applied to the vast majority of Atheists, Heathens, or whatever other religious and social group, with the common denominator being that they're White Westerners. The root source of this is not the Church itself, but the degeneration of the ethnic culture surrounding it.
    The real problem is that we have been duped into entrusting the leadership of our nations, political and spiritual, to a bunch of traitorous bootlickers whose true allegiance is to Jews and their money, and Jews see our collective death as being in their interest.
    Most people think as they are trained to think, and most people make a majority.

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    The reason islam is gaining popularity in Europe is obvious. It's the religion of the orc hordes flooding into Europe.

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    I very occasionally venture into a church and feel more alone than ever. There are pamphlets and other propaganda advertising Left wing lunacy everywhere. It blows me away as the Left want the Church and Christianity to die in the first place. The church is pandering to a market which will never use it. As others have said, the Church used to be the first to sound a call to arms in times of crisis. Now they are calling the surrender.

    The other cause is that Feminism has infected the West and white men and women are at odds with each other. We simply aren't reproducing. Meanwhile Muslims and other non White groups stick to what works and reproduce like rabbits. The mathematics is simple.
    I grew up on a belief of honour, courage and the old world values. The world isn't about that anymore, preferring to die a slow death of fast food and cheap thrills.

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