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Thread: Women's Football

  1. #21
    Sound methods Chlodovech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    Not only should the women's team be paid the same as the men's team the women should get a big bonus for winning the FIFA World Cup. I heard it was the women's FOURTH FIFA World Cup win. Have the men ever won a FIFA World Cup?
    I've no problem with female athletes making just as much as men on the basis of the entertainment argument - regardless of the quality of the competition - if the money exists (like in women's tennis). If there's sponsors, TV contracts, revenue through the sale of tickets and shirts... to pay for all of it. Right now women's pay rise would only be possible by transferring wealth from men's football (and earned by men) to women's - as female teams tend to be part of historically male football clubs - and slashing men's wages in half. Or we would see lots of clubs filing for bankruptcy, not to mention a great many of the national football associations around the world, which aren't rich at all on the whole. The American Football Association (USSF) isn't the regular employer of the national squad - it drafts women (and men) into service like it would do with citizen-soldiers, it's compulsory - FIFA does not accept saying 'no' to an invitation for the national squad, it may end your career.

    As for the bonus: the women will get the bonus they and the USSF agreed upon in advance of the tournament, the one negotiated between the football association and the team. That's how these things are arranged, always prior to a tournament.

    On a different note: it's a lot harder for the men's team to win the World Cup because the competition is global and of course due to America's particular sport history, while for America's female team the competition only comes from Scandinavia/Northern Europe and Japan - the American men's team is top 20 at best, right now probably just top 30 officially, but realistically speaking it's more like top 40. By contrast the women's team is a football pioneer and the best in the world, quite like Brazil and Germany amongst men.

    Nonetheless, the men's team enjoyed considerable success - well beyond its logical place in the football hierarchy. Their golden age was between 1920 and 1930, and when the first world cup was hosted in Uruguay (1930), the American team went straight to the semi-finals. They never made it that far again, but survived the group stage several times and made it to the quarter finals in 2002, the final 8. That is the equivalent of the women's team winning the world cup, because the U.S. is not amongst the best 8 football nations in the world while the women are the best in their sport. When the women reach the semi-finals it's not big news nor will it be the cause of celebrations and no-one will perceive it as a stunt or an exceptional achievement. Just like with Brazil and Germany in men's football anything less than playing the final is considered a failure, either minor or huge. A rather unremarkable result.

    If we want women's football to grow as a sport we do need professional players though, and in that case you do need to pay them enough to give them the possibility to make a career out of football. But I wish men were paid as much as women, not the other way around. We should go back to the seventies and eighties, when athletes earned enough to make a career out of football, but still had to work after their active career on the pitch ended. We've forgotten what sport is all about: it's to increase your health, to strengthen social ties, to make people self-confident and to prepare for war. Professional sports are typical for late stage civilization, the ancient Greeks had them too when their society was in full decline.

    Lionel Messi is the best footballer in the world, he doesn't know how rich he is, he's that rich. But if it was up to me his wage would be capped at 5.000 euro a month - there would be no royalties and the like either.

    To promote women's football, I also suggest creating an international competition which features the best 200 female footballers in the world, playing for ten different football clubs, that could also give a big boost to women's football I believe.
    “Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no-one is too poor to buy.” - C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

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  3. #22
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    Lionel Messi is the best footballer in the world, he doesn't know how rich he is, he's that rich. But if it was up to me his wage would be capped at 5.000 euro a month - there would be no royalties and the like either.


    If you start capping wages at these levels there will be no more Lionel Messis because it would kill all incentive for anyone to take up football as a career.

  4. #23
    Sound methods Chlodovech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan
    If you start capping wages at these levels there will be no more Lionel Messis because it would kill all incentive for anyone to take up football as a career.
    So be it, then! It's more than worth it. I'm fully aware the quality of the game would be lower - I'm willing to sacrifice quality to make football about the fans, the the game, the passion and the glory again. George Best and the rest didn't earn all that much - and they played for full stadiums - and they were footy gods in their own right. We can argue about what the wage cap should be and how much footballers can earn on the side, but I don't think a footballer should earn a lot more than their audience of mostly working class men. I doubt Lionel Messi would earn 5000 euro a month if he wasn't a footballer (he was completely bored when he visited the Giza plateau...) ... he'd still be a footballer - someone that passionate about football will always be a footballer in some capacity - as most footballers these days don't have much else going for them.
    “Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no-one is too poor to buy.” - C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

  5. #24
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    I don't think a footballer should earn a lot more than their audience of mostly working class men.
    Even though a player's professional career will end sometime in his early/mid-30's?

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    I have high hopes that pirated streaming services will bring the financial tom-foolery in modern football down to a more sober level. I haven't watched a single game of football on subscription-based television (unless I've been visiting someone else) for over a year. Works alright, and I get to keep all my money and not feeling I'm contributing to the ever more insane circus.
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  7. #26
    Sound methods Chlodovech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    Even though a player's professional career will end sometime in his early/mid-30's?
    Yes, they can open a bar or something after their career - tons of less successful footballers do something like that. Especially today with national sport schools it is easier than ever to combine professional sport with studying. Some footballers, ex-internationals in my country, studied either at the start of their professional career or when it ended, and became civil engineers and the like.

    This is Joos Valgaeren, ex-Celtic Glasgow, he designs gardens - you gotta feel some respect for a man who doesn't forget his roots:





    But if Messi wins a lot of games, gives tons of assists and scores many goals, he can still get a bonus. He'd still make more than 5.000 euro/month.
    “Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no-one is too poor to buy.” - C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

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    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    There are still (..and always will be) cases such as Joos Valgaeren plus many others who don't play for the élite clubs.

    It isn't just about the individual players though. You would destroy the whole industry by capping wages at the levels you suggest and put huge numbers of jobs at risk.

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    I don't know/follow professional football (behind of curtains). But I agree with Chlodovech, the saleries are too high in hockey as well. And this comes from one who loves hockey as a sport. I think Finland's own hockey league's salaries are between 70 000 - 300 000euros/annually), which would be just fine for their ''work''. Guys who loves that sport, would choose it anytime vs normal 8 - 16 jobs.

    Honestly getting playing in NHL (earning millions and millions per season) is easier than winning some 50km race walking in Olympic games and needs much less efforts or years of hard training.

    Coming back football. My understanding is that many top level teams in Europe (even so called big teams) are facing economical problems? Or at least until some foreigner comes and buys them (either oil shaikh or Russian Oligarch). Tells on their own language.

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  11. #29
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    I fully agree about wages being crazy. Semi-literate footballers earning £300.000 a week? It’s insane BUT somehow the market forces, supply & demand etc.. have brought this about and you cannot interfere by saying someone is ‘not worth’ that amount. Football clubs are private businesses and they can pay their employees whatever they like.

    There’s another thread on this forum entitled "Thot Audit" () where Chlodovech bemoans the fact that Belle Delphine will earn more money showing her photos on the Internet than most hard working folks will earn in their lifetimes. Apparently, she’s now selling her bathwater for 24 quid a bottle but so what? You can moralise about how 'fair' this is forever but she’s obtaining her money quite legally.

    The world is full of people earning too much or too little but I’m not succumbing to envy here. Where does it end? We have rock stars raking in millions and waffling politicians charging £300.000+ just for a short speech. I just let all of this slide past me. 'Fairness’ is totally irrelevant – they have customers paying up under no constraint and how these spend their cash is entirely up to them. Were they taking taxpayers' money (eg. BBC employees or the House of Lords parasites) then that would be an entirely different matter!

    It should also be noted that when we read articles about (..insert name of Premier League footballer..) being paid £xxx.xxx a week he will actually be receiving about HALF of this amount and in some cases far less. Okay, someone will make a sarcastic jibe like: ‘however will he manage?’ but the point is that a large part of their wages goes straight back into the economy in the form of taxes etc.. so there's a lot more to consider here than just the headline figure.

    -----------------

    P.S. Chlodovech, what do you mean by 'complaint beyond PM'?
    Last edited by SaxonPagan; Wednesday, July 10th, 2019 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Complaint beyond PM

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    Looks like a frickin' dyke-fest to me. Their arrogance is incredible as is their lack of modesty.
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