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Thread: What's Your Favorite Germanic Battle Of All Time?

  1. #21
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    Re: Which battle are you most proud from your nation's history?

    I'm not proud from anyone's history.
    I hope I'll be proud from the realization of my comrades' politics on the future.

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    Re: Which battle are you most proud from your nation's history?

    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt.

    « -Oh my God, but you're a neo-nazi?!...
    -But why neo? »

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  4. #23
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    Re: Which battle are you most proud from your nation's history?

    The Battle of Agincourt
    25th October 1415


    Combatants

    England vs. France.

    Commanders

    Henry V of England vs. Charles d'Albret.

    Strength

    England: Around 6,000
    France: Between 20,000-30,000

    Results

    Decisive English victory.

    The Battle of Agincourt was fought on 25 October 1415 (Saint Crispin's Day), in northern France as part of the Hundred Years' War. The combatants were the English army of King Henry V and that of Charles VI of France. The latter was commanded not by the incapacitated king himself, but by the Constable Charles d'Albret and various prominent French noblemen of the Armagnac party. The battle is notable for the use of the English longbow, which helped the English compensate for their inferior numbers. The battle was also immortalised (and somewhat fictionalised) by William Shakespeare as the centrepiece of his play Henry V.

    At dawn, both Henry and d'Albret laid out their forces near their respective camps. To start, the lines were a little over a mile apart. The plain between the armies was a gently rolling field, freshly plowed and planted, about 900 yards wide. It had been raining continuously for two weeks, and the field was a sea of mud.

    The French had two very dense lines of armored foot soldiers with crossbowmen and bombards between. Mounted knights guarded the flanks and formed a reserve in the rear. d'Albret's plan was to use the bombards to cut the English lines into smaller sections that could be handled individually. Unfortunately, everybody (including d'Albret!) wanted to be in the front line. It got so dense that the bombards couldn't be fired, as they would hit more French than English. They actually were fired once, to no effect.

    Henry laid out his forces in the traditional English fashion, with men-at-arms flanked by wedges of archers, protected by large pointed stakes. (Horses won't charge at big pointy things.) The archers at the ends of the lines were positioned forward from the rest of the troops to give covering fire along the main front. This is an excellent defensive position, but it gives very little scope for attack.
    After the forces were arranged, they sat and stared at each other for four hours. The English had no desire to attack, and the French were presumably not pleased at the idea of wading through a mile of mud.

    About 11 AM, as some of the French were sending their servants back to camp to bring lunch, Henry decided to force the issue. He ordered his troops to move the line forward, and to reset the positions within extreme longbow range from the French lines. He didn't have enough men-at-arms to form a reserve or to guard the camp. This was to have dramatic consequences later on.

    As Henry had planned, the first volley of arrows goaded the French into attacking. The first attack was from the mounted knights on the flanks of the French position, intending to overrun the longbowmen protecting the English flanks. It was a disaster. While an English arrow would not normally penetrate a knight's plate armor, a horse cannot carry enough armor to be effective. Wounded horses threw their riders into the mud and trampled through the close-packed ranks of French foot soldiers. They also churned up the mud in front of the English positions, making things more difficult for future French attacks.

    The main French attack was from the first line of men-at-arms. Unfortunately, everybody tried to push their way into the first line, including Constable d'Albret. As they marched toward the English, their line was squeezed together by the narrowing field, until they were so close together that they couldn't lift their arms to use their weapons. However, even with the mud and the crowding, the shock of the French men-at-arms hitting the English line was terrific, throwing the lines back for several yards.

    It was, however, ineffectual. Despite some terrific fighting, the English line was never in any serious danger. While men-at-arms in plate armor are normally quite mobile, the combination of the mud and the crowding made them almost helpless. The English simply knocked them down, to drown or suffocate under fallen bodies.
    The second line of men-at-arms followed the first. Now, however, there was the added complication that the English positions were blocked by a wall of bodies. The second line had no better luck against the arrows, mud, and English men-at-arms than the first.

    After the collapse of the second line, the English common soldiers started in on the traditional battlefield activity of taking prisoners for rensom and stripping the armor and jewelry from the dead. However, the remaining French forces, both the survivors of the first two lines and the entire third line, plus the crossbowman, easily outnumbered the English. As the counts of Marle and Fauquembergues tried to rally the French for a third attack, Henry gave the order to kill the prisoners. This removed the risk of the prisoners turning on their captors and freed their guards for duty elsewhere.

    At roughly the same time, a group of French knights cut through the woods and attacked the English camp. In Shakespeare, the raid on the camp was Henry's reason for ordering the prisoners killed; I suspect that it was a later justification. Remember, the murdered prisoners represented a very large amount of ransom money, which Henry needed very badly.

    The attack of Marle and Fauquembergues was defeated with no particular effort. Their charge (in which both of them were killed) was the last offensive action that the French mounted.




    Key
    English Longbowmen

    English Men at Arms

    First French Attack

    Second French Attack

    French Mounted Knights

    French Crossbowmen

    French Men at Arms

    French Bombards




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    Re: Which battle are you most proud from your nation's history?

    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt.

    « -Oh my God, but you're a neo-nazi?!...
    -But why neo? »

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    Grin Re: Which battle are you most proud from your nation's history?

    Thanks to everyone for reminding me of a number of history changing battles!

    Im proudest of the Battle of Bloodriver 1838 (one of my ancestors fought in this battle when he was 16 years old), although there are a number of battles in which the Boers tought the British soldiers a few lessons like: Majuba, Magersfontein and Spionkop.

    Numbers:
    Boers: 470
    Zulus: 10 000 - 20 000
    Boers Killed: none (3 lightly wounded)
    Zulus Killed: 3 000+

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blood_River

    The Battle of Blood River (Afrikaans: Slag van Bloedrivier) was fought on 16 December 1838 on the banks of the Blood River (Bloedrivier) in what is today KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa. A group of about 470 Voortrekkers, led by Andries Pretorius, defended a laager (circle of ox wagons) against Zulu impis, ruled by King Dingane and led by Dambuza (Nzobo) and Ndlela kaSompisi, numbering between 10 and 20 thousand.

    The Voortrekkers were motivated by the fact that Dingane had killed one of their leaders, Piet Retief, after negotiating a treaty with him. Dingane's impis had also afterwards gone on a slaughtering campaign, killing defenseless Voortrekker women and smashing their babies against rocks, most notably at Bloukrans.

    On 15 December the Voortrekkers received word that a large Zulu force was approaching. Pretorius chose an excellent site next to the Blood river (then the Ncome river), where their ox wagons were arranged into a laager. In spite of mist settling that evening, it was clear the next day. Before the battle commenced, the Voortrekkers (led by Sarel Cilliers) made a vow to God that, should they be delivered, they would build a church and commemorate the day as a Sabbath.

    The Zulus repeatedly and unsuccessfully attacked the laager, until Pretorius ordered a group of horse riders to leave the encampment and engage the Zulus. In the fighting, Pretorius was wounded in his left hand by an assegaai (Zulu spear).

    Partly due to the fact that the Voortrekkers used rifles and at least one light cannon against the Zulus' spears, as well as the good location and motivation of the Voortrekkers, only three Voortrekkers were wounded and none perished; that contrasted against the more than 3,000 Zulu warriors who died.

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    Re: Which battle are you most proud from your nation's history?

    I appreciate the Battle of Hastings from both POVs.




    Fyrdmen and housecarls, learning that their king was dead, began streaming away from the battle; the Normans overran the hilltop in pursuit. Harold's personal guard died fighting to the last as a circle of housecarls around the king's body
    ----------

    Also Rourke's Drift where the British valiantly slew hundreds of Zulus for the loss of 17 killed.

    Battle of Waterloo.

    Battle of Quebec

    Successful defence of Canada from the expansionist American federalists.

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    Your Favourite Germanic Historical Battle or Event

    Mine is the Varus battle, probably the most important for Germanic preservation.

    Arminius (c. 18 BC- AD 19), chief of the Cherusci, a Teutonic tribe inhabiting parts of what is now Germany. German nationalists of the 19th century celebrated him as a national hero, under the name of Hermann, for having freed Germany from Roman control. He served in the Roman army (AD 1-6), obtaining Roman citizenship and an insight into the arts of war and policy as practised by the Romans. Returning home about AD 7, he found his people oppressed by the Roman governor Publius Quinctilius Varus. Arminius organized a rebellion of the Cherusci, annihilating three Roman legions in the Varus Battle or Battle of Teutoburg Forest in AD 9 and forcing the Romans back to the Rhine. The defeat of his legions led Varus to commit suicide.

    In AD 15 the Romans, under the general Germanicus Caesar, invaded Germany and in AD 16 defeated Arminius. Germanicus was recalled to Rome, however, and the advantages gained were lost. After this time, no Roman army ventured to penetrate the interior of Germany. After the expulsion of the Romans, internal feuds broke out among the Teutonic tribes, and Arminius was slain by his relatives. A colossal statue of him was set up in 1875 near the spot where he allegedly defeated Varus. Newer archaeological research indicate that the battle had taken place about 80 km north of the statue at the foot of the Kalkriese hill.


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  10. #28
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    I will mention about the Saxons wars, that Charles the Great waged upon the saxons for more than 32 years to convert them to christianity.

    The Saxon Wars were the campaigns and insurrections of the more than thirty years from 772, when Charlemagne first entered Saxony with the intent to conquer, to 804, when the last rebellion of disaffected tribesmen was crushed. In all, eighteen battles were fought in what is now northwestern Germany. They resulted in the incorporation of Saxony into the Frankish realm and their conversion from Germanic paganism to Germanic Christianity.

    Despite repeated setbacks, the Saxons resisted steadfastly, forever returning to raid Charlemagne's domains as soon as he turned his attention elsewhere. Their main leader, Widukind, was a resilient and resourceful opponent, but eventually was defeated and baptized (in 785).

    The Saxons were divided into four subgroups in four regions. Nearest to the ancient Frankish kingdom of Austrasia was Westphalia and furthest away was Eastphalia. In between these two kingdoms was that of Engria (or Engern) and north of these three, at the base of the Jutland peninsula, was Nordalbingia.
    The wars began with a Frankish invasion of Saxon territory and the subjugation of the Engrians and destruction of their sacred symbol Irminsul near Paderborn in 772 or 773; at Eresburg. Irminsul may have been a hollow tree trunk, presumably representing the pillar supporting the skies—similar to the Nordic tree Yggdrasil. Charlemagne's campaign led all the way to the Weser river and destroyed several major Saxon strongholds. After negotiating with some Saxon nobles and obtaining hostages, Charlemagne turned his attention to his war against the Lombards in northern Italy. But Saxon free peasants, led by Widukind, continued to resist and raided Frankish lands in the Rhine region. Armed confrontations continued unabated for years.

    His second campaign came in the year 775. Then he marched through Westphalia, conquering their fort of Sigiburg, and crossed Engria, where he defeated them again. Finally, in Eastphalia, he defeated them and their leader Hessi converted to Christianity. He returned through Westphalia, leaving encampments at Sigiburg and Eresburg. All Saxony but Nordalbingia was under his control, but the recalcitrant Saxons would not submit for long.

    After warring in Italy, he returned very rapidly to Saxony (making to Lippe before the Saxons knew he left Italy) for the third time in 776, when a rebellion destroyed his fortress at Eresburg. The Saxons were once again brought to heel, though Widukind fled to the Danes. Charlemagne built a new camp at Karlstadt. In 777, he called a national diet at Paderborn to integrate Saxony fully into the Frankish kingdom. Many Saxons were baptised.

    The chief purpose of the diet was to bring Saxony closer to Christianity. Missionaries, mainly Anglo-Saxons from England, were recruited to carry out this task. Charlemagne issued a number of decrees designed to break Saxon resistance and to inflict capital punishment on anyone observing heathen practices or disrespecting the king's peace. His severe and uncompromising position, which earned him the title butcher of Saxons, caused his close adviser Alcuin of York, later abbot of Saint Martin's at Tours, to urge leniency, as God's word should be spread not by the sword but by persuasion. But the wars continued, as the Saxons fought ferociously for their freedom.

    In Summer 779, Charlemagne again went into Saxony and conquered Eastphalia, Engria, and Westphalia. At a diet near Lippspringe, he divided the land into missionary districts and Frankish countships. He himself assisted in several mass baptisms (780). He then returned to Italy and, surprisingly, there was no Saxon revolt. From 780 to 782, the land had peace.
    Charlemagne returned in 782 to Saxony and instituted a code of law and appointed counts, both Saxon and Frank. The laws were Draconian on religious issues, and the native paganism was gravely threatened. This stirred a renewal of the old conflict. That year, in Autumn, Widukind returned and lead a revolt which resulted in much assaults on the church. The Saxons invaded the area of the Chatti, a Germanic tribe already converted by Saint Boniface and firmly in Charlemagne's empire. Widukind annihilated a Frankish army at the Süntelgebirge while Charles was campaigning against the Sorbs. It was in response to this setback that Charlemagne allegedly at the Blood court of Verden ordered the beheading of 4,500 Saxons who had been caught practising paganism after converting to Christianity, while Widukind escaped to Denmark again. Upon this Blutgericht modern (ie archaeological) research has cast some doubt, as no archeological evidence of such a massacre has been found and the original source may mistakenly have said "beheading" (decollabat) when it should say "exiling" (delocabat). The massacre led to two straight years of constant warfare (783-785), with Charlemagne wintering in central Saxony, at Minden. In 783, battles in Saxony saw Saxon women throw themselves barebreasted into battle. One of them was Fastrada, daughter of a Saxon count, who, in 784, became Charlemagne's fourth wife. Gradually, the Franks gained the upper hand. The turning point came in 785, when Widukind had himself baptized and swore fealty to Charlemagne. It was with the conclusion of this war that Charlemagne can have claimed to have conquered Saxony, the land had peace for the next seven years, though revolts continued sporadically until 804.

    In 792, the Westphalians rose up against their masters in response to forcible recruitment for wars against the Avars. The Eastphalians and Nordalbingians joined them in 793, but the insurrection did not catch on as previous ones and was completely put down by 794.

    An Engrian rebellion followed closely in 796, but Charlemagne's personal presence and the presence of loyal Christian Saxons and Slavs immediately crushed it. The last insurrection of the independently-minded people occurred in 804, more than thirty years after Charlemagne's first campaign against them. This time, the most unruly tribe of them all, the Nordalbingians, found themselves effectively disempowered to rebel. Charlemagne deported 10,000 of them to Neustria and gave their now vacant lands to the loyal king of the Abotrites. It is constructive now to quote Einhard, Charlemagne's biographer, on the closing of such a grand conflict:

    The war that had lasted so many years was at length ended by their acceding to the terms offered by the King; which were renunciation of their national religious customs and the worship of devils, acceptance of the sacraments of the Christian faith and religion, and union with the Franks to form one people.

    Towards the end of the wars, Charlemagne had begun to place more emhasis on reconciliation. In 797, he eased the special laws that had been so incendiary, and in 802, Saxon common law was codified as the Lex Saxonum. This was accompanied by the establishment of ecclesiastic structures (including bishoprics in Paderborn, Münster, Bremen, Minden, Verden and Osnabrück) which secured the initially brutal conversion of the Saxon people. The last Saxon uprising was the Stellinga, which occurred between 841 and 845.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxon_Wars

    Though the war ended with saxon conversion, the memory of my heathen forefathers will be kept with honour.

  11. #29
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    My favourite is an event, the colonization of Transylvania by Germans. We, Transylvanian Saxons owe our existence to this event.

    The colonization of Transylvania by Germans was begun by King Géza II of Hungary (1141–1162). For decades, the main task of the German settlers was to defend the southeastern border of the Kingdom of Hungary. The colonization continued until the end of the 13th century. Although the colonists came mostly from the western Holy Roman Empire and generally spoke Franconian dialects, they were collectively known as Saxons because of Germans working for the Hungarian chancellery. For much of their history, these 'Saxons' held a privileged status with the Hungarians and Szeklers of Transylvania.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvanian_Saxons

  12. #30
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    The German revolution of 1848, because it embodied the principles that I view as ideal for the German nation: national unity and freedom. During the 1840s, German nationalism was strong and it was then when the text to Das Lied der Deutschen was written by August Heinrich Hoffmann von Fallersleben. The German revolutionaries of 1848 called for freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, arming of the people and a national German parliament. The German Revolutionaries of 1848 supported a Großdeutschland, a Germany which included Austria and flew the black-red-gold German tricolore.






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