View Poll Results: Opinions about Adolf Hitler

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Thread: Opinions about Adolf Hitler

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skärmträl View Post
    It seems to me he never stopped being an artist. He was a painter in his youth, found his vocation in Wagnerian operas and he then created the largest art installation the world had ever seen: The Third Reich.

    The speeches, the rallies, even the battles -- they all seem to exude from an artist's sense of drama. Perhaps artists shouldn't be put in a political position. Hitler's generals would probably have been of that opinion anyway.
    You raised an excellent point here. He even said that he was a Mediterranean man and that he would return to the mountains to paint after the war.

    Actually, Hitler argued that he owed his political success precisely to his musical orientation. Whereas Ludendorff had failed due to his unmusical quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by schwab View Post
    All those that committed suicide are cowards. If you believe in something strong enough you should be ready to face the music when caught.
    That is the Germanic spirit...............
    The worst part was some of them killed their own children.
    ....and NO, the allies would not have killed them as some have written.
    The Nordic spirit is not reckless, wild, or barbaric, as a certain Strasserite poster who's now banned insisted. Your demand that Hitler should have stood trial or handed himself over to his enemies is not only unjust, but madness. He wouldn't have even been afforded the opportunity to defend himself at the Nuremberg trials as he did at the Putsch trial, his oratory could have been deliberately misrepresented in the press. He had seen what happened to Mussolini. We saw it in recent times with Gaddafi and Hussein. There's also Hitler's declining health and his hand injury to consider. Do we even know if he could still aim a gun and hit his mark from a distance?

    If you're going to judge Hitler that way (charging in battle, risking his life), you must also hold the Allied leaders according to these standards. De Gaulle was criticized by Secretary of State Cordell Hull, in consideration for his rank (Brigadier general), for not charging into battle and leading his people, but for seeking refuge in London. As an analogy, Hitler believed Stalin would flee to China and Churchill would flee beyond the Atlantic (but not to Canada) in the event that they were physically compromised.

    I'd argue that Hitler chose to remain behind in Berlin precisely to avoid being seen this way, as a coward. He was offered plenty of opportunities to leave Berlin and easily could have continued the war after securing haven in a multitude of sympathetic countries. Rudolf Hess was firmly convinced that he had committed suicide and said that for him to go into hiding wouldn't be Hitler.

    Apollonius of Tyana thought highly of Megistias the Acarnanian who deliberately made up his mind to share in death with his soldiers, a similar phrasing utilized by Hitler in his Political Testament.

    Jesus said it was better for one to lose an arm or an eye than for his whole body to be destroyed. Applied to the community, this means it's better for one to take his own life than for the whole nation to suffer because of him. This was and can only be a non-Jewish Greek custom (referenced by Aeschines and confirmed by Josephus) and proverb (John 11:50).

    What did the word "Hitlerism" originally signify? Cordell Hull provides great insight into this matter. It meant anything that sided with Hitler. The Soviets applied it to Hitler's Germany, Italian Fascism, and Japanese aggression. Possibly the Finns would have been included. By removing himself from the world, Hitler hoped to spare Germany and perhaps the other Axis states from unnecessary suffering and end the war (this could have been an invented reasoning from his pilot Hans Baur, but it can't be denied that the Allies extended the war and countless more lives were lost due to their demand for unconditional surrender).

    Furthermore, Plato and Plotinus conceded that suicide could be justified if the individual could no longer contribute to the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by schwab View Post
    I'm aware of the rapes committed during WW2. BTW, rapes were committed by all allied forces. Americans raped women in my own hometown in Alsace. My brother in the Wehrmacht in Russia said German soldiers raped Russian women. Let's not blame just the Russians. They are all guilty.
    The Wehrmacht was not known for it's racial solidarity. They admitted non-Germanics and even half-castes. Hitler had expressly forbade such a thing in his private conversations (April 24, 1942). Goebbels thought that the Wehrmacht had largely failed due to not receiving similar training and indoctrination as the Waffen-SS.

    Another reason for Germany's failure was their involvement with Italy's invasion of Greece (this is not a myth/excuse invented by Hitler as the mainstream narrative claims. He was certainly not alone in this belief. Hull likewise conceded that things could have turned out differently if German divisions hadn't been committed to Italy's war).

    The Waffen-SS in particular were under strict obligations to not mate with foreign women, in addition to other, often absurd, penalties from Himmler. It'd have undermined their whole ideology to "adulterate" their blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    Maybe you should try reading the scriptures yourself. Hitler was a Christian after all.
    Hitler explicitly rejected Christianity in private conversations and blamed it for widespread intolerance, even in speeches (multiple comparisons with Bolshevism). It's true that he emulated the Church in a number of ways (dogma, intolerance, ruthlessness, recruiting from the masses) and admired certain features (i.e. Church of St. Madeleine). He had equal criticism for both Protestant and Catholic sects, although he considered Catholic delegates to be more dignified and regretted that Luther's reformation had led to the splitting of the church. He started off very generous towards the churches, similar to Nero's remarkably liberal policies in his early reign. He was even considering unifying all Protestant sects with a Reich bishop. So he could be recognized as a patron of Christianity, but certainly not an adherent.

    He remained in the Catholic Church to avoid losing supporters and to maintain his political image. He actually broke way with Christian propaganda somewhere in the 1930s. A lot of Christian propaganda was left behind in Mein Kampf, such as his reinterpretation of "original sin". His actual doctrine was self-reliance/self-help. "god helps those who help themselves" occurs in at least 13 speeches and the table talks and is consistent with his attitude towards subordinates (he only helped them when they could no longer bear the task at hand). This maxim is the antithesis of Christian teaching, found nowhere in the bible although believed by most Christians to be a core precept. As it happens, Ernst Haeckel declared it to be the maxim of hygiene.

    If Hitler had invariably maintained the myth of the Temple cleansing, he would have been setting himself up for disrepute, as Jesus would not have had enough time to do everything that was attributed to him. He was causing a public disturbance, a good enough reason for arrest or stoning. Jesus most certainly wouldn't have used a whip (a tool of slave drivers) in this cleansing, if he was really an emancipator. The only thing from the Christian religion which Hitler carried with him to his last days was his belief that Jesus was not a Jew, but an Aryan, who fought against Jewish materialism. He actually does full justice to Jesus in the Martin Luther Memorial Church with a dignified, manly representation as opposed to what Churchill's granddaughter has made of Jesus.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminus View Post
    Hitler explicitly rejected Christianity in private conversations

    Hitlers table talk is a known fraud stop referencing it. Hitler was a Christian and a catholic. I have the quotes to prove it.





    “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, from John Toland [Pulitzer Prize winner], Adolf Hitler, New York: Anchor Publishing, 1992, p. 507. )




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    “The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 562. )




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    “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 65. )




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    “My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago — a civilization which was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people.


    “Then indeed when Rome collapsed there were endless streams of new German bands flowing into the Empire from the North; but, if Germany collapses today, who is there to come after us? German blood upon this earth is on the way to gradual exhaustion unless we pull ourselves together and make ourselves free!


    “And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Munich, April 12, 1922; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler: April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1, New York: Oxford University Press, 1942, pp. 19-20. )




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    “For this, to be sure, from the child's primer down to the last newspaper, every theater and every movie house, every advertising pillar and every billboard, must be pressed into the service of this one great mission, until the timorous prayer of our present parlor patriots: ‘Lord, make us free!’ is transformed in the brain of the smallest boy into the burning plea: ‘Almighty God, bless our arms when the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge now whether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle!’”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, pp. 632-633. )




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    “I may not be a light of the church, a pulpiteer, but deep down I am a pious man, and believe that whoever fights bravely in defense of the natural laws framed by God and never capitulates will never be deserted by the Lawgiver, but will, in the end, receive the blessings of Providence.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered on July 5, 1944; from Charles Bracelen Flood, Hitler: The Path to Power, Boston, Mass: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1989, p. 208. )




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    “I say: my Christian feeling tells me that my lord and savior is a warrior. It calls my attention to the man who, lonely and surrounded by only a few supporters, recognized what they [the Jews] were, and called for a battle against them, and who, by God, was not the greatest sufferer, but the greatest warrior. . .


    “As a human being it is my duty to see to it that humanity will not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did that old civilization two thousand years ago, a civilization which was driven to its ruin by the Jews. . . I am convinced that I am really a devil and not a Christian if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as Christ did two thousand years ago, against those who are steeling and exploiting these poverty-stricken people.


    “Two thousand years ago a man was similarly denounced by this particular race which today denounces and blasphememes all over the place. . . That man was dragged before a court and they said: he is arousing the people! So he, too, was an agitator!”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered on April 12, 1922; from Charles Bracelen Flood, Hitler: The Path to Power, Boston, Mass: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1989, pp. 261-262. )




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    “And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal damage done to Christianity than in these fourteen years when a party, theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same Government.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Stuttgart, February 15, 1933. )




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    “We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered in Berlin, October 24, 1933. )




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    “Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 383. )




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    “We have experienced a miracle, something unique, something the like of which there has hardly been in the history of the world. God first allowed our people to be victorious for four and a half years, then He abased us, laid upon us a period of shamelessness, but now after a struggle of fourteen years he has permitted us to bring that period to a close. It is a miracle which has been wrought upon the German people. […] It shows us that the Almighty has not deserted our people, that He received it into favour at the moment when it rediscovered itself. And that our people shall never again lose itself, that must be our vow so long as we shall live and so long as the Lord gives us the strength to carry on the fight.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech to the 'Old Guard' of the Party at Munich, March 19, 1934. )




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    “The anti-Semitism of the new [Christian Social] movement was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 119. )




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    “Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin the fight for the ‘remaking’ of the Reich as they call it.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 375. )




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    “Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time. A fight for freedom had begun mightier than the earth had ever seen; for once Destiny had begun its course, the conviction dawned on even the broad masses that this time not the fate of Serbia or Austria was involved, but whether the German nation was to be or not to be.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 161. )




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    “As far as this variety of ‘folkish’ warriors, are concerned, I can only wish the National Socialist movement and the German people with all my heart: ‘Lord, preserve us from such friends, and then we can easily deal with our enemies.’”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 565. )




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    “It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 436. )




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    “What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 214. )




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    “Imbued with the desire to secure for the German people the great religious, moral, and cultural values rooted in the two Christian Confessions, we have abolished the political organizations but strengthened the religious institutions.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech at Reichstag, Berlin, January 30, 1934. )




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    “The advantages of a personal and political nature that might arise from compromising with atheistic organizations would not outweigh the consequences which would become apparent in the destruction of general moral basic values. The national government regards the two Christian confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality: their rights are not to be infringed.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech at Reichstag, Berlin, March 23, 1933; published in his My New Order )




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    “Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in 26 April 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933. )




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    “[T]he world has no reason for fighting in our defense, and as a matter of principle God does not make cowardly nations free…”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 622. )




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    “This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 152. )




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    “While we destroyed the Centre Party, we have not only brought thousands of priests back into the Church, but to millions of respectable people we have restored their faith in their religion and in their priests. The union of the Evangelical Church in a single Church for the whole Reich, the Concordat with the Catholic Church, these are but milestones on the road which leads to the establishment of a useful relation and a useful co operation between the Reich and the two Confessions.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in his New Year Message, January 1, 1934. )




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    “National Socialism has always affirmed that it is determined to take the Christian Churches under the protection of the State. For their part the churches cannot for a second doubt that they need the protection of the State, and that only through the State can they be enabled to fulfill their religious mission. Indeed, the churches demand this protection from the State.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a Radio Broadcast July 22, 1933; from My New Order. )




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    “I know that here and there the objection has been raised: Yes, but you have deserted Christianity. No, it is not that we have deserted Christianity; it is those who came before us who deserted Christianity. We have only carried through a clear division between politics, which have to do with terrestrial things, and religion, which must concern itself with the celestial sphere. There has been no interference with the doctrine of the Confessions or with their religious freedom, nor will there be any such interference. On the contrary the State protects religion, though always on the one condition that religion will not be used as a cover for political ends.


    “There may have been a time when even parties founded on the ecclesiastical basis were a necessity. At that time Liberalism was opposed to the Church, while Marxism was anti-religious. But that time is past. National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity.


    “The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Koblenz, August 26, 1934. )




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    “It would be more in keeping with the intention of the noblest man in this world if our two Christian churches, instead of annoying Negroes with missions which they neither desire nor understand, would kindly, but in all seriousness, teach our European humanity that where parents are not healthy it is a deed pleasing to God to take pity on a poor little healthy orphan child and give him father and mother, than themselves to give birth to a sick child who will only bring unhappiness and suffering on himself and the rest of the world.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 403. )




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    “I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lords work.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Reichstag, Berlin, 1936. )




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    “At the head of our [National Socialist] program there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will—not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Nuremberg, September 6, 1938. )




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    “May God Almighty give our work His blessing, strengthen our purpose, and endow us with wisdom and the trust of our people, for we are fighting not for ourselves but for Germany.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Berlin, February 1, 1933. )




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    “The judgment whether a people is virtuous or not virtuous can hardly be passed by a human being. That should be left to God.”


    ( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Wilhelmshaven, April 1, 1939. )

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  5. #33
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    Back in school times:

    Teacher: 'Student 1, what do you think was the worst about Hitler?'

    Student 1:
    'The Holocaust'

    Teacher: 'And you, student 2?'

    Student 2: 'Hm, let me think...The war and stuff!'

    Teacher: 'And you, student 3, what was the worst about Hitler?

    Student 3: 'That he was a vegetarian...'

    Half of the class shocked, half of the class laughing, teacher annoyed and sent the student out of the class room for the rest of the lesson...
    ~Loyal to my hate~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leliana View Post
    Back in school times:

    Teacher: 'Student 1, what do you think was the worst about Hitler?'

    Student 1:
    'The Holocaust'

    Teacher: 'And you, student 2?'

    Student 2: 'Hm, let me think...The war and stuff!'

    Teacher: 'And you, student 3, what was the worst about Hitler?

    Student 3: 'That he was a vegetarian...'

    Half of the class shocked, half of the class laughing, teacher annoyed and sent the student out of the class room for the rest of the lesson...

    Heh... I would have said "He did not cut off and capture the Brits at Dunkirk, which eventually cost Germany the war."

    Vegetarian guy would have had company...
    Most people think as they are trained to think, and most people make a majority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post

    Heh... I would have said "He did not cut off and capture the Brits at Dunkirk, which eventually cost Germany the war."

    Vegetarian guy would have had company...
    Aww yes, would be a good answer, but most students wouldn't have known about Dünkirchen...we didn't learn much details about WW2 in school. Holocaust and eeeeeeevil war crimes were far more important.

    That student had always a sly grin on his face back in our class. Nowadays we would call him an intelligent troll. I liked his cynical way of thinking btw. He liked to give provocative replies.
    ~Loyal to my hate~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    Hitlers table talk is a known fraud stop referencing it. Hitler was a Christian and a catholic. I have the quotes to prove it.
    Might I suggest you start a new debate thread then? We could end up going off-topic here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leliana View Post
    That student had always a sly grin on his face back in our class. Nowadays we would call him an intelligent troll. I liked his cynical way of thinking btw. He liked to give provocative replies.
    Teachers want exemplary, model, well-behaved students. In other words, compliant, subservient. A cast of mediocrities, an ugly grey blob.

    Often, geniuses tend to be troublemakers, rabble-rousers, problem childs, the black sheep of the class, they can't sit still and listen to boring lectures and find it difficult to take interest in their homework. This student demonstrated remarkable courage and independence to go against the majority. Do you know if he had any friends? Did he draw anyone to him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminus View Post
    The Waffen-SS in particular were under strict obligations to not mate with foreign women, in addition to other, often absurd, penalties from Himmler. It'd have undermined their whole ideology to "adulterate" their blood.
    That's true, Terminus.

    However, there are documented cases of rape and sadistic killings within the Waffen SS. But these were committed by the 36. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS, better known as "SS-Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger" and SS-Sturmbrigade RONA/Kaminski.
    Those divisions were, by my knowledge, put together by criminals, murderers and other filth from prisons and concentration camps.
    Most of them were not Waffen SS worthy. But what was the Waffen SS still worth in the years 44/45 by installing all kind of non-Germanics into the ranks.
    ''Ginds de Waal, daar weer de IJssel, dan de Maas en ook de Rijn. Geeft ons recht om heel ons leven trots op Gelderland te zijn.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wychaert View Post
    That's true, Terminus.

    However, there are documented cases of rape and sadistic killings within the Waffen SS. But these were committed by the 36. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS, better known as "SS-Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger" and SS-Sturmbrigade RONA/Kaminski.
    Those divisions were, by my knowledge, put together by criminals, murderers and other filth from prisons and concentration camps.
    Most of them were not Waffen SS worthy. But what was the Waffen SS still worth in the years 44/45 by installing all kind of non-Germanics into the ranks.
    Yes, that is true. I had heard about Hitler's high hopes for recruiting poachers, but then they started adding criminals into the mix. Apparently, in those days, poachers were admired for risking their lives, hunting for their survival, etc. while hunters were reviled for killing for sport or pleasure.

    Despite those additions, the Waffen-SS reportedly still functioned well near the war's end. Their fanaticism was widely attested in Allied circles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leliana View Post
    Aww yes, would be a good answer, but most students wouldn't have known about Dünkirchen...we didn't learn much details about WW2 in school. Holocaust and eeeeeeevil war crimes were far more important.
    Maybe part of the reason I am here today is that, beginning about age 8 or so, I was hungry to learn things on my own, and not satisfied to rely for information upon teachers who were so obviously my intellectual inferiors.

    I still have an Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition New International Merriam-Webster Dictionary, Shepherd's Historical Atlas, Times World Atlas, 1951 Encyclopedia Britannica, Cassell's German-English and Latin-English dictionaries, and many other reference books, since I myself pre-date the internet and the instant electronic availability of these things.
    Most people think as they are trained to think, and most people make a majority.

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    But what was the Waffen SS still worth in the years 44/45 by installing all kind of non-Germanics into the ranks.
    The one exception I would point to here is the SS Charlemagne Division. I can't think of any others.

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