Asatru vs. National Socialism

[waterdrinker]

I was browsing when I came upon an article. Here are a few highlights:

Being Asatru or Vanatru--a Teuton, is more than a belief, faith, religion, and especially ANCESTRAL ORIGIN. It is the very essence of our being--it is who we are.

Proof that there is no affiliation of nazism to Asatru comes from Hitler himself. Several quotes show how he regarded Asatru. For example:

In Hitler's 'Table Talk' (page 61, trs. Norman Cameron and R.H. Stephens, 1953), Hitler states: "It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to re-establish the worship of Wotan {father of the gods in the German lore}. Our old mythology ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund."

"Here's how the practioners of the pre-christian Teutonic belief system were treated. Former membership of an Odinist congregation disqualified anyone from holding rank or office within the NSDAP. The full power of the state was not focused on religious minorities until the 9th of June 1941 when the head of the security police, {Reinhardt} Heydrich, banned a large number of spiritual practices. Among the victims were followers of Rudolf Steiner, followers of von List, and traditional Odinists. Their organizations were dissolved, their property confiscated, and many of their leaders arrested."

"In the Nazi philosophy, women were not free. Their only purpose was to serve men and to have male babies to fight for Germany. This is the opposite of the Teutonic religion as women are highly regarded and respected for their many characteristics and benefits to the family and community as a whole. The sagas clearly define this positive regard, and those whom are Tru today regard women in a positive way for their many invaluable contributions just as did their ancestors".

Source: http://www.midhnottsol.org/leidstjar...01/hitler.html

[Azdaja]

And why Aratru is so big nowadays is, because a lot of people come from the gothic or satanistic scene. This is like a dark belief and is like a magnet for people like that.

I've noticed this as well.
These "satanists" thrive in our shallow, degenerate culture like mould on rotten fruit. Anything "fresh" - so long as it has an obvious spiritual component - will be set upon by these maggots and turned into just another manifestation of their uncontrollable need for petty drama and ego gratification.

[Hellstar]

Dont try to make Hitler perfect.

He wasn't. National Socialism just happen to be the best shaped "modern mass ideology" developed in these times with most success behind.

[GreenHeart]

How can you people talk about the gods of our forefathers like that??

[Ederico]

Originally posted by NordicPower88
How can you people talk about the gods of our forefathers like that??

Who are you referring to, and what talk are you talking about?

[Ederico]

Originally posted by Yggdrasil
Nobody is saying bad things about our forefathers gods, all i said was that asatru works like a magnet to gothic/satanistic people. Which i very much hate, since the nordic gods no dark and evil god were, like gothic/satanisim seems to be (dark and evil).

That is quite true and I agree.

[Moody]

I would say that the reason for the conflict between NS [National Socialism] and 'Teutonic religion' during Hitler's time was due to NS's evolving towards being a religion in and of itself.

While NS absorbed Christianity, it rejects that aspect of Christianity which distinguishes it from the other 'religions of The Book'; and that aspect is 'Christian Forgiveness'.

It is this 'forgiveness' which is criticised by Nietzsche and influenced NS via his writings, such as 'The Antichrist'.

'Forgiveness' is a way of escaping from the 'cycle of vengefulness', something that was very harmful to Viking culture with its endless blood-feuds.

So NS returns to this Viking morality which seeks to escape the cycle of violence via the 'scapegoat'.
This also reinforces the notion of Membership; it is We of the Blood, and the Other is the enemy, the scapegoat.

Now, with NS as a religion, Law becomes that which is the Word of The Leader. The petty law of lawyers is rejected, as is the law of past religions.
The Leader and his Word and His Scripture is Timeless and must be Obeyed if one's Blood is to be saved in the eternal war against the Fiend, the Blood Polluter.

Here we see the Necessary elements of NS as a religion.

There must be a Leader, a Book and total belief in the literal truth of all of this.

While the Leader lived, NS operated as a religion.
But now that the Leader is dead, we enter the next stage.

The Leader is either The Last Prophet of the Aryan Race, sent by the God of the Aryans, or he is nothing.

Without this belief, NS just becomes another form of democratic nationalism.

[Rahul]

Why is this idea or wait for a prophet leader essential to herald the next stage of thought? Why be systematic and orderly in this fashion so that we can clearly see the visible stop of this and start of that?

In my opinion, we do not really know what decides the balance or the way this order of nature or that which is above it, the cosmic order or likely a still higher hierarchy. We are only trying to unravel the next, and it is certain to me that we are many steps behind in the abilities and skills when we look at the heritage of our forefathers. But this is no reason to look down upon ourselves. The Volk still lives, it is above the barriers of time and space. It makes our lives and our self important. It teaches and makes me realise it through life and breath. Yes, to me at least it looks so. And I feel positive. The world conception of our folk should be free from a leader-follower, priest-believer or any such philosophy where the stream flows down from top to bottom. Its a cosmic unified field instead.

A leader will only stifle the mass, but we can look at our traditions and they shall guide us right onward!

But only if we will and desire. And desire lies buried under years of adherence to slavish world deceptions. There is a natural yearning to invoke all the gods within and do the reta or the right. Reta is embedded in Aryan consciousness. It is free of doubt and is pure resolve.

How do you folks feel about it?

And yes, mind is one important element here. Manas in Vedic is consciousness and knowledge, both.

[Moody]

I feel that the Leader-ship Principle is a Necessary factor of Nordic-Aryanism.

At present, Europa is without a Leader and flounders about.

Likewise, the movement itself now adopts 'leaderless resistance', and makes little head-way.

Our mythology abounds with Leaders, whether they be Olympian or earth-bound heroes.

They are the individual activators of historical change in our cycle.

We are lost, as this forum demonstrates, without them.

[NatRev]

The concepts of dualism developed later in the Norse myths, possibly due to the influence of Christian missionaries but there was not real 'good' and 'evil' gods in comparison to the Christian ideals.

Sure Woden was portrayed as wise and strong father figure but wasn't the 'nice' God that Jesus became to be represented.

How can you be 'nice' and a god of War too? You can be fair, wise and strong but not really 'nice'.

The concept of 'light' and 'darkness' was actually central to Norse beliefs, not light as in Good and dark as in Evil but the principles of balance, if you want a contemporary term, admitadly an Asian one, that of the Yin and Yang.

I'll have to read through my Edred Thorsson / Steven Flowers books but I'm sure he goes on about balance being central to the Norse myths.

The only 'evil' entities in the Norse myths, apart from Loki but he wasn't really all that bad, just a bit mischevious until Ragnarok, were the Jotuns or Giants. They weren't 'demons' in the normal Biblical belief, they were more chaotic, primal forces and concepts like flood, winter, frost, hunger, storms etc. I sort of equate these now-a-days withj challenges that face us. I call myself Jotunheim not because I 'worship dark primal forces' but I feel that life is a constant challenge to us, and that each adversity needs to be combatted to help us develop as an individual and as a race.

But this is just my view.


Goths? Define this term?

Most of the people I know who are / were Goths are wholesome, sincere, hard working and sound people who simply follow a different fashion and like a specific music style. I have no problem with this as I like Industrial and Electronic music. But of course you will get a minority of wanna-be's with very little imagination and intelligence who will follow any fad just because it looks cool.
I have little time for these people and consider them to be really quite sad individuals.

Although I am not 100% Asatru, I do like to read about their ideals, but mostly due to my interest in Norse myths.

I feel that most Western people have lost their Spiritual way and will cling on to any ideal that offers comfort, acceptance and peerdom. Just look at some of the new age garbage that is churned out by the bucket load, anything from 'heal yourself through tea' to 'how to be a teenage witch!'

I tend to agree with the ideals that Rahul is stating on this thread.