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Thread: Is Morality Nothing More than an Evolutionary Strategy?

  1. #21
    a.k.a. Godwinson SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    Next time 1000 blue collar Englishmen lose their job, we'll ask them for their thoughts on this conundrum.
    Well, Chlod, if you're referring to the excesses of predatory capitalism in this globalised age then I agree that this is a bad thing.

    However, I was talking about 'opportunism' on an individual level that involves personal initiative and an enterprising spirit.

    I don't believe in stifling this, any more than we should stifle a person's chances of finding a partner under the weight of religious morality.

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    Senior Member Theunissen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Presence of religion looks like modern-day Turkey, Arabia, Afghanistan, India or christian Mexico or Brasil for that matter, and it does nothing to promote societal values worth living in. In no shape or form, nowhere, nor did it ever anywhere. Also not in 'romantised' "christian" Europe. (Organised) religion always, ever, everywhere, only ever served the purpose of rulership over chunks of the population, it did not, ever, serve the purpose of educating people.
    Well, organized secularism is how present day Western Europe looks like. Welcome everyone, no restraint on sexual or other behavior, while lipservice to pacifism and humanism is paid.

    I have to disagree that Medieval and Early Modern Christian Europe is the equivalent of Saudi Arabia and the like.
    In fact this is what brought us the scientific revolution, Age of Exploration, Rule of Law and an orderly society. One factor may have been that society was understood trifunctionally with three different bases of power: a spiritual/intellectual one (represented by the church or klerus), a political/military one (represented by the nobility) and an economic one (represented by farmers, peasants and citizenry). That actually kept the system in check and the other two estates could counterbalance, when there were abuses in the other. There were of course deviation attempts from this as can be seen in the late medieval Catholic Church before the Reformation or in the late modern clerical parties of a distinguished Catholic nature. But I don't think even this was as insane as the present universal Humanism, diversity doctrine or multiculuralism. Even those old clerics kept a sense of realism in their politics, even if they were out of line. At present it is certain capital concentrations and emphatically secular structures in civil society that run the show often backed by the former or by politicians that funnel money their way.

    Human activity is based on valuation and to do proper valuation a sound and generally accepted value system needs to be in place. Otherwise people are controlled by desires or even addictions in their behavior, which is not a good basis for decisions. That brings us btw back to trifunctionality were reason, force and desire are kept in balance. It's out of balance now, everything has to be subjected to human desires whether they are perverted or not.

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    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech View Post
    Velvet, you can call the dominant ideology in Western societies a religion, the belief in equality and victimhood is indeed a substitute, counterfeit religion and for the worst of the virtue signalling over socialized mob it's a functional substitute. It has sinners and saints, commandments, masses and vigils, heretics and true believers ... but there's no God and there's no salvation under social liberalism. You can never redeem yourself after being born white or male or hetero or all three and no-one dies for our sins (But then sometimes people do die for their perceived sins, perhaps none more so than the Afrikaners - and nobody cares). The sky is empty and heaven is here or will be here one day, supposedly.

    Most of the believers are in it for social validation - social standing and all the good things that come with it. You have that kind of people in actual religions too, their opportunism may open doors for them but their emptiness makes them supremely unlikable. Quite like the media's legion of saints.
    You criticise the "social validation", but you expect "salvation" (==validation) from your religion, your god, too. There's no difference, other than the semantics of the religiously coloured language. It's both seeking recognition, a biologically progammed opportunism.

    It's a fundamentally empty religion and if you like me yearn for a mystical experience and more genuine spirituality, and the truth, then it will never fill the hole in your soul. For me an ideology can never replace religion, Velvet. Furthermore: a (based) Catholic or Christian can never be 100% onboard with any ideology - 99% is possible, yes, but never entirely, least of all when ideologies don't leave some room for the Holy Spirit. Ideologies promise us humans will solve all our problems somehow by ourselves and that these problems are earthly and material. Some obviously more so than others.

    I don't need my ideology to be another religion, I'm fully motivated for both without having the race to take the place of God, I'm loyal to race, Reich, state, nation and God - but I sure can imagine that the type of person who is part of the secular religion which now dominates the West instantly trading their current secular religion for the next popular one - they're spineless like that. Pretty much how Madrid was a staunch Republican city during the Spanish Civil War, but as soon as Franco's troops entered Madrid the inhabitants welcomed him with open arms. At heart, most progressives of today are the very same crowd which hailed Franco as their saviour, the same dumb people of the same superficial mindset - but they're good at surviving.
    I dont even disagree that a religion, a god, is a desireable asset to complement the ideology guiding the nation, that they must not be antagonistic to each other. I just wonder why "we" Europeans, Aryans, should worship a foreign god and not our own, the gods of our blood.

    I've seen christians say to this: because christianity was superior and won over our own. How deep a treason this is. Lever död en slav? Didnt they who did so and those who are defending this takeover today just spinelessly switching their religion for the next fashion that came along?

    And metal evolved into nu-metal. I have two words for you: Linkin Park. Is metal bad too now?
    Cheap trick.

    If Satan is real, then subverting Christianity and creating ideologies which mimic Christianity would be his modus operandi. Communism was and is always about destroying Christianity and the Christian social order in the first place, which at the same time wrecks our nations (also intentionally), and only then economics.
    If Satan was real, christianity would be his modus operandi.

    And I would say that many of our problems do indeed stem from a moral crisis, all serious problems do - and it's obvious.
    If you mean by moral values and rules how to treat your neighbours and abide to laws, yes, there is a "moral" crisis.
    I just dont agree that christianity is the sole bringer of morals, or that today's world is the 'automatic' product of the absense of christianity but really of a hostile ideology designed to extinct the white people.

    This discussion we're having now is reoccuring in our circles - and I would say your side of the debate will always point out that progressivism/communism evolved out of Christianity - and that's very possible - but my side of the debate will always point out that the decline of Christianity between 1789-1968 remarkably coincides with the rise of these ideas - it's too much of a coincidence. And in some cases the relation is completely undeniable - the feminist madness for instance. Even if Christianity somehow served as an inspiration to historical feminists, one can hardly say Christian churches historically endorsed it or that it's biblical or traditional. Hence not Christian.
    I will point out, then, that, while the decline of christianity is indeed "caused" or at least accompanied by the rise of these ideas, the reason why the bearers of these ideas could walk masked among us is because of christianity. Which is the base problem.

    I would even go further and say, the reason why christianity was here in the first place is because these people brought it here. As Nietzsche pointed out, we are too cold for a "warm" religion like christianity, that's why it allowed us to even thrive on (viewed in detail, often against) it for a while. But, as Himmler pointed out, we (as Volk, and that means all Germanic/European Volks) must overcome christianity from within ourselves, because ultimately, it's a sickness. We will not survive with christianity.

    Absolutely. But if you make an ideology out of opportunism then you get a neoliberal society of all against all and the top against the bottom. And tons of migrants so the people at the top can become even richer.
    I was talking about the biological motivation of "opportunism", not the egotism of capitalists.
    I also didnt say to make this opportunism the ideology, I just think that we need an ideology that is conscious about the biological bases of ethnicites/cultures, and does not fight the instincts or slams them with all sorts of guilt-words like neoliberalism / communist capitalism does today. And we neither need a religion that makes a sin of instincts and biology.

    I can see it alright, basic altruism doesn't require Christianity, but not all forms of social cooperation are equal - or just as opportunistic - and not all opportunism is wrong either, of course. Some forms of social organisation and even opportunism are blessed because backed by a heavenly mandate or they're at least functional. The same can't be said about all ideologies. You can go wrong with an ideology, but you can't go wrong with the word of God.
    The word of god? Did he finally make a book? Must have missed this
    C'mon, you cant seriously try to sell off the wild collection of vastly different (and not rarely oxymoronic) writings that is the bible for the "word of god" - to me. Herr Chlodovech, please.

    In conclusion I'll say: naturally you should go for the truth because it's the truth and not because it may personally benefit you, either financially or otherwise, that's what makes one a scammer of sorts. That's the kind of opportunism I'm denouncing here. But obviously no Skadite is a blatant opportunist otherwise we wouldn't be here in the first place.
    That's what I do, Chlod. I stepped outside the glass house that is christian-based western ideology, and viewed from the outside this card house looks pretty worn out, sick and broke. The truth, dear Chlod, is not in your church, your religion. It's the anti-truth by definition, it demands belief.

    Your god kicked your imagined ancestors (werent your ancestors, after all) out of paradise for eating from the tree of knowledge. Our god gave his own eye to obtain the tools for seeking knowledge (the runes) and gave them to his Volk for that they grow and thrive. You talk of truth, but worship a god that hates nothing more but truth and knowledge.

    If I just knew how to heal you from this infection. But it's like with alcoholics, they must realise for themselves that they are sick...
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