Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 55

Thread: Today's Islam or 13th Century Europe?

  1. #1
    Grand Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Online
    Thursday, October 31st, 2019 @ 04:26 AM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    English, Anglo-Saxon
    Country
    England England
    Location
    South Coast
    Gender
    Zodiac Sign
    Aries
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Self Employed
    Politics
    Free Speech / Anti-EU
    Religion
    Pagan
    Posts
    5,040
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,584
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,598
    Thanked in
    1,394 Posts

    Today's Islam or 13th Century Europe?

    I’ve just been reading about The Inquisition, which led me to ponder:

    If I had to choose, would I rather have been born in today’s Saudi Arabia or 13th century Europe?

    It’s not an easy call. The Catholic Church at that time committed some unspeakable atrocities, including the persecution (and ultimate extermination) of the Cathares in Southern France.

    During the massacre at Béziers, for example, the besieging Catholic troops were unsure who were Catholics or Cathares within the city and so the order was given to just slaughter them all because “God will recognise his own!” … WHAT???

    Pope Innocent III was a psychopathic despot. The Cathare genocide was the start of The Inquisition, which soon spread across Europe but took different forms. For example, the Cathares were considered to be ‘heretics’ in France (because they were a rival Christian sect) whereas in England the established Church went after ‘witches’.

    You’d be suspected of being a witch if you had a strange mark on your body (a sign of the devil!) and you could also arouse suspicion if you had a pet such as a cat. Old women were treated with particular suspicion because it was believed that they could only have reached that age by using some kind of magic. Healers were also deemed to be witches, along with anyone exhibiting ‘odd’ behaviour, and so the irrational stupidity continues … … it’s perhaps best to just pass over what they did to those having sex outside of marriage!!!

    I think all things considered, I’d probably opt to live in one of today’s ‘backward’ Muslim countries rather than deal with all that cr*p from the tyrannical Catholic Church. I’ve always maintained that the main problem with Islam is that it’s about 6 or 7 centuries behind Christianity, but the latter has committed all of the excesses (and worse!) of the former.

    Any thoughts on this?

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to SaxonPagan For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Senior Member schwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Last Online
    2 Weeks Ago @ 03:35 AM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    Alsatian/Suevi
    Ancestry
    germanic/alsatian/Elsaesser
    Subrace
    Child of Creator God
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Oregon Oregon
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    retired - Aerospace Quality Engi
    Politics
    independent
    Religion
    Born again Christian,
    Posts
    841
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    769
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,006
    Thanked in
    493 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    I’ve just been reading about The Inquisition, which led me to ponder:

    If I had to choose, would I rather have been born in today’s Saudi Arabia or 13th century Europe?

    It’s not an easy call. The Catholic Church at that time committed some unspeakable atrocities, including the persecution (and ultimate extermination) of the Cathares in Southern France.

    During the massacre at Béziers, for example, the besieging Catholic troops were unsure who were Catholics or Cathares within the city and so the order was given to just slaughter them all because “God will recognise his own!” … WHAT???

    Pope Innocent III was a psychopathic despot. The Cathare genocide was the start of The Inquisition, which soon spread across Europe but took different forms. For example, the Cathares were considered to be ‘heretics’ in France (because they were a rival Christian sect) whereas in England the established Church went after ‘witches’.

    You’d be suspected of being a witch if you had a strange mark on your body (a sign of the devil!) and you could also arouse suspicion if you had a pet such as a cat. Old women were treated with particular suspicion because it was believed that they could only have reached that age by using some kind of magic. Healers were also deemed to be witches, along with anyone exhibiting ‘odd’ behaviour, and so the irrational stupidity continues …. … it’s perhaps best to just pass over what they did to those having sex outside of marriage!!!

    I think all things considered, I’d probably opt to live in one of today’s ‘backward’ Muslim countries rather than deal with all that cr*p from the tyrannical Catholic Church. I’ve always maintained that the main problem with Islam is that it’s about 6 or 7 centuries behind Christianity, but the latter has committed all of the excesses (and worse!) of the former.

    Any thoughts on this?
    The organized church everywhere in Catholicism and Protestantism had blood on their hands. Many sects have sprung up and many preach a false gospel. They wandered away from the true Scriptures to gain fame and support.
    This is why I became a non-denomination Christian and follow Scriptures only. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is easy to understand, no PhD required.


    Even the United Nations got involved in this.
    Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
    Christianity and its persecutions of the Cathars

    http://www.heretication.info/_cathars.html




    @Saxon

    Any thoughts on this?

    As a pagan you would have no chance to survive. Islam does not tolerate "paganism".

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to schwab For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Online
    5 Hours Ago @ 10:07 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    German
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordid-CM
    Gender
    Religion
    Religion of the Blood
    Posts
    1,616
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    421
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    582
    Thanked in
    256 Posts
    I'm not necessarily a fan of Christianity especially Catholicism or indeed, organised religion in general, but there are a few things wrong with this.

    The Cathar Crusade was prosecuted by knights and their armies. The Catholic Church called for it, true enough but nobles and their armies readily followed, often to enrich themselves and it was them who did the actual killing.

    Towns were razed, their populations slaughtered wholesome and enemy prisoners routinely killed in those times, even if the enemy was Catholic (because Christians couldn't be legally enslaved and commoners couldn't get ransomed, so they had no worth for their enemies), so it was hardly any more brutal than other wars of the time.

    About the Massacre of Bezieres, the only evidence comes from a German monk who, a few decades later, wrote down, that he "had heard" that Amalric, the papal legate had said that. He himself said of the massacre:
    "While discussions were still going on with the barons about the release of those in the city who were deemed to be Catholics, the servants and other persons of low rank and unarmed attacked the city without waiting for orders from their leaders. To our amazement, crying "to arms, to arms!", within the space of two or three hours they crossed the ditches and the walls and Béziers was taken. Our men spared no one, irrespective of rank, sex or age, and put to the sword almost 20,000 people. After this great slaughter the whole city was despoiled and burnt, as divine vengeance miraculously raged against it."

    Besides, you should read up what Cathars were and did. I don't have pity with their fate by and large.


    Witch hunts were a thing of the common people, mostly and for most of its existence, the Church denied that witchcraft even exists. In Catholic countries witch hunts weren't even much of a thing, most of that happened in Protestant regions and it's probably no coincidence that it happened mostly in Germanic countries, were a belief in witches and corresponding witch hunts had a long tradition going back to pagan times. The Inquisition, at least in Italy and Spain, literally checked the witch huntings there. They were mostly occupied with hunting down crypto-Jewish and crypto-Muslim converts and heretics.
    In England, for example, Henry VIII made witchcraft a felony only after he separated from Rome(to be able to behead, sorry, marry his second wife).

    it’s perhaps best to just pass over what they did to those having sex outside of marriage!!!
    Like what, exactly?

    I’ve always maintained that the main problem with Islam is that it’s about 6 or 7 centuries behind Christianity
    And there was me thinking that the main problem with Islam would be, that Muslims, 99% of them racial others, are physically displaying us in our home countries and that converting or willingly living under their rules is literally treason but hey. Otherwise I don't get why anyone should care about Islam in the first place, if it did not infringe on us.

    I don't get "Pagans" who hate Christianity, which is at least a traditional European faith and overwhelmingly a product of European thought, so much that they would prefer to live under the rules of a totally alien religion which has been our enemy for a thousand years. One could basically say: "Have fun paying that jizya and giving up your sons for the devshirme, dhimmi".
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


  6. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Juthunge For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Grand Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Online
    Thursday, October 31st, 2019 @ 04:26 AM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    English, Anglo-Saxon
    Country
    England England
    Location
    South Coast
    Gender
    Zodiac Sign
    Aries
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Self Employed
    Politics
    Free Speech / Anti-EU
    Religion
    Pagan
    Posts
    5,040
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,584
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,598
    Thanked in
    1,394 Posts
    I don't get "Pagans" who hate Christianity
    I don't! My wife is a devout Methodist, as many will know.

    Could you please supply some examples of this 'hatred' you mention?

    I think you've just assumed this, haven't you?

    Besides, you should read up what Cathars were and did. I don't have pity with their fate by and large.
    I have 7 books about them, Juthunge.

    I have also lived in their former stronghold of Toulouse and visited many of the famous places associated with them, such as Montségur.

    Were we to have a discussion about the Cathares and you were unable to access Wikipedia I suspect it would be very one-sided

    @Saxon

    Any thoughts on this?

    As a pagan you would have no chance to survive. Islam does not tolerate "paganism".
    This is a fair point, schwab, but did the 13th century inquisitors tolerate paganism?

    It appears to me that many of the 'witches' and heretics they burned were pagans.

  8. #5
    Senior Member schwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Last Online
    2 Weeks Ago @ 03:35 AM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    Alsatian/Suevi
    Ancestry
    germanic/alsatian/Elsaesser
    Subrace
    Child of Creator God
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Oregon Oregon
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    retired - Aerospace Quality Engi
    Politics
    independent
    Religion
    Born again Christian,
    Posts
    841
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    769
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,006
    Thanked in
    493 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    This is a fair point, schwab, but did the 13th century inquisitors tolerate paganism?

    It appears to me that many of the 'witches' and heretics they burned were pagans.
    Yes, that's true...............

  9. #6
    Grand Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Online
    Thursday, October 31st, 2019 @ 04:26 AM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    English, Anglo-Saxon
    Country
    England England
    Location
    South Coast
    Gender
    Zodiac Sign
    Aries
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Self Employed
    Politics
    Free Speech / Anti-EU
    Religion
    Pagan
    Posts
    5,040
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,584
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,598
    Thanked in
    1,394 Posts
    One thing I would say is that they were barbaric times 700 years ago and the Christians of this period had no 'civilised' models to emulate or aspire to.

    They were flying blind, so to speak, whereas today's Muslims can see what other societies are like and yet still choose to live in the middle ages

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SaxonPagan For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Senior Member Uwe Jens Lornsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Last Online
    4 Days Ago @ 02:29 PM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Jutland
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    State
    Schleswig-Holstein Schleswig-Holstein
    Gender
    Age
    48
    Zodiac Sign
    Taurus
    Family
    Widowed
    Politics
    cons. old fashion worker class
    Religion
    Philosophical Archaic Christian
    Posts
    990
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    497
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    287
    Thanked in
    238 Posts
    11,12,13th "Christian Europe" ...

    13 the Judas Number , as 4 * 13*13 makes roughly year 666 , the Islam started to foam in Meccah ... (:


    What for a Question !

    It is about the Stronger One , defining what a witch is , since people are replaceable .

    The silly thing is , that witches themselves were not described in the New Testament , but
    something called "evil spirit" .

    Optimism may be a positive spirit , and pessimism considered a bad spirit .

    How could people be considered "nasty" and disliked ?
    Denunciation by fellow neighbours .
    Psychic Sick people , maniacs , without positive prospects and future , today are herded in hospitals .


    Europe could be considered completely Christian in the 13th century , and the Edda had been written down that times .
    Crusader's Jerusalem had been lost to Muslims in that century .
    Mongols conquered Bagdad in the 13th century .
    Mk 10:18 What do you call me a good master, no-one is good .

  12. #8
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Teutone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Last Online
    3 Weeks Ago @ 04:21 AM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Frisia, Prussia, Baltics
    Y-DNA
    I1
    Country
    Holy Roman Empire Holy Roman Empire
    State
    North Rhine-Westphalia North Rhine-Westphalia
    Gender
    Politics
    Realpolitik
    Religion
    Catholic Sedevancist
    Posts
    82
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    39
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    79
    Thanked in
    41 Posts
    Alot of things you hear about the "dark" ages and inqusition are made up or exagurated pseudo facts.

    A must read for everyone that wants to go past the post french revolution doctrines:

    https://www.traditionalright.com/the-not-so-dark-ages/

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Teutone For This Useful Post:


  14. #9
    Senior Member Uwe Jens Lornsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Last Online
    4 Days Ago @ 02:29 PM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Jutland
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    State
    Schleswig-Holstein Schleswig-Holstein
    Gender
    Age
    48
    Zodiac Sign
    Taurus
    Family
    Widowed
    Politics
    cons. old fashion worker class
    Religion
    Philosophical Archaic Christian
    Posts
    990
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    497
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    287
    Thanked in
    238 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    One thing I would say is that they were barbaric times 700 years ago and the Christians of this period had no 'civilised' models to emulate or aspire to.

    They were flying blind, so to speak, whereas today's Muslims can see what other societies are like and yet still choose to live in the middle ages

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_hunt
    The peak years of witch-hunts in southwest Germany were from 1561 to 1670.[46]


    Saudi Arabia does prosecute people for witchcraft in our age , Wikipedia claims .



    Modern Witchcraft could be considered Psychology , Illusionists , Advertising , Propaganda , Medicine , Mathematics , Chemistry and Physics .
    Mk 10:18 What do you call me a good master, no-one is good .

  15. #10
    Grand Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Online
    Thursday, October 31st, 2019 @ 04:26 AM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    English, Anglo-Saxon
    Country
    England England
    Location
    South Coast
    Gender
    Zodiac Sign
    Aries
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Self Employed
    Politics
    Free Speech / Anti-EU
    Religion
    Pagan
    Posts
    5,040
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,584
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,598
    Thanked in
    1,394 Posts
    Alot of things you hear about the "dark" ages and inqusition are made up or exagurated pseudo facts.
    I dare say some of it may have been exaggerated but we're talking here of events that lasted for hundreds of years and they were still burning 'witches' in England well into the 17th century.

    There's documented evidence and even detailed accounts of many of the executions. They most certainly haven't been made up!

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SaxonPagan For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 13th Century Anglo-Saxon Mead Recipe
    By Dvergr in forum Food & Drink
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Monday, April 23rd, 2018, 06:48 AM
  2. Colour of Hair and Eyes in Europe Today
    By The Truth in forum Bio-Anthropology & Human Variation
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Thursday, September 15th, 2011, 03:07 PM
  3. 13th Century Russian-German Wars in Livonia
    By Austrvegr in forum Middle Ages
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Friday, January 12th, 2007, 07:58 AM
  4. 'Europe Will Be Islamic by the End of the Century'
    By Vetinari in forum Immigration & Multiculturalism
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: Tuesday, November 30th, 2004, 06:47 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •