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Thread: How Do We Know Jesus Was Really Who He Said He Was?

  1. #21
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    I've heard this before and I think it's true. I think most people are just too dumb to make the connection. Apart from the obvious Jesus being used in lion and lamb imagery all the time (a combination of the fire signs Leo and Aries?), his mother is Mary, the virgin Virgo. Jesus is also seen as an usher into both the Piscean and Aquarian ages -"fisher of Men" and "bearer of life-giving water". And he's connected with Ophiuchus, the serpent handler/slayer.


    Christianity has done more harm than good to the white race. It is multicultural and pro miscegenation. It was probably made up entirely by the Romans to keep citizens under control and in fear of Hell. In fact, most Christians I know (my family included) seem more driven to be "Christ-like" out of fear more than anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    And equally possible that he didn't

    Either way, we don't gain any more of an insight into Jesus as a person before the age of 30.
    https://forums.skadi.net/threads/184...=1#post1267655

    References to what I stated above.
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    That Jesus thing has been debated forever..............

    Everyone has a world view. Our worldview is influenced by many things. It is influenced by our culture and by our education or lack thereof. It is influenced by the books we read or the lack of books we read. It is influenced by the media we expose ourselves to.
    A worldview is comprehensive. It will affect every area of our lives, from our morality to how we spend money, to our politics, to how we vote. It affects everything about us. What we want to have is a Christian worldview, and more specifically a Scriptures worldview.
    C.S Lewis said: "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it but because by it I see everything else." That is how we need to view life, through the lens of Scriptures, though the eyes of a follower of Jesus Christ.
    The only way to have a Scriptures worldview is by studying and memorizing Scriptures and spending time in it every day. We want to run everything through a Biblical grid asking ourselves "What does the Bible say about this?
    Sometimes people have an emotional worldview. They base their views on how they feel saying I must go with my heart, because the heart wants what the heart wants.
    The human heart can be very deceitful of all things and can be desperately wicked.
    The heart can mislead you. Don't go with emotions, they are misleading too. Don't go with our culture, it will mislead you too.
    Stay with the Scriptures, they will never lead you into a wrong direction.

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    My personal 'conspiracy theory' is this:

    According to the stories, Mary had been visiting with family- her uncle apparently being a member of the Jewish priesthood. All is going swimmingly until Mary is found to be pregnant. Who is the father? Who knows? But in order to avoid scandal, Mary is immediately farmed out to the aging Joseph (in his 80's) who- upon being told she is already pregnant is suspicious when he is further told that God himself impregnated the 13 or 14 year-old Mary (allegedly a virgin). Whaaat? Regardless, Joseph quickly plans to take Mary off to some backwater town and dump her, but is dissuaded from doing so by the angel Gabriel (or was it the real father of Mary's baby, someone in a position of power?). So then the story progresses to Jesus' birth in what is essentially presented as a barn (even though the site itself is actually a small cave). Then we have the 'three wise men from the East'- Persian Zoroastrians?- bringing gifts. Why would they do so unless the child were fathered by someone in power (and why would they- likely being Zoroastrians- have any reason to believe Jesus was the literal son of a Jewish God, and why pay homage to him anyway)?

    It simply doesn't add up- the story makes no sense, unless one is willing to make some HUGE leaps to discount logic and give credence to a number of 'miracles'.

    Jesus' life between birth and the beginning of his public life is, and likely will be, a subject for debate forever. Regardless, it's highly unlikely that Jesus worked all of his thoughts out on his own while growing up as the son of an old carpenter. Either Jesus traveled a bit and learned some philosophical kung-fu along the way, or he had some really expensive tutors on hand (where would an 80 year-old carpenter get that sort of money?).

    I do not believe Jesus was the literal son of God- at least no more so than anyone else might be. I believe, though, that he did exist and was an exception to his contemporaries. (Even for those Christians who believe 100% that Jesus was the divine literal son of God, does it really make a difference? Would not his wisdom and teachings be just as valid if he had been a mere nondescript beggar in the streets? In other words, does Jesus HAVE to be divine for you to pay attention to him?)

    The Jefferson Bible- the one I am most in tune with regarding Jesus' teachings- ends with Jesus' death on the cross. I am prepared to accept that story in that it wraps things up neatly and we have 'closure' on Jesus' life and times. On the other hand, I cannot ignore the theories about Jesus NOT dying on the cross and surviving his ordeal to escape to other lands where he continued his teaching. I also recognize that Jesus and Mary Magdalene may very well have been married and after Jesus' death (on the cross or otherwise) she fled to Europe carrying Jesus' child. (This also plays into the tales that the 'Holy Grail' may not have been an actual cup that Jesus drank from but rather Mary herself was the vessel, carrying the child of Jesus.)

    In any case, my personal verdict is that Jesus was a man- a very human man, not divine in any way- who lived and died just like any other man, but was possessed of insight and wisdom far beyond that of his contemporaries.

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    Pretty simple and straightforward:


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    The video is indeed simple and straightforward, but for it to work you pretty much have to already believe in what it's selling. No rational non-believer is going to see this and go, "WOW- why didn't I see this already? This is AMAZING! I'm convinced! Where do I sign up?"

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    The video is indeed simple and straightforward, but for it to work you pretty much have to already believe in what it's selling. No rational non-believer is going to see this and go, "WOW- why didn't I see this already? This is AMAZING! I'm convinced! Where do I sign up?"
    Yes, indeed!

    I've always found that Christians cannot prove anything in the Bible, other than by quoting you another part of the Bible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan the Blind View Post
    The video is indeed simple and straightforward, but for it to work you pretty much have to already believe in what it's selling. No rational non-believer is going to see this and go, "WOW- why didn't I see this already? This is AMAZING! I'm convinced! Where do I sign up?"
    Actually, those kind of arguments convinced Lee Strobel, a staunch atheist who was so upset that his wife converted to Christianity he tried to win her back through logic and rationality. There are plenty of other people who converted to Christianity as a result of following a rational path rather than just walking by faith. Atheists, journalists, doctors, scientists and more. Of course watching one video is not necessarily enough to sway someone's opinion in a direction, if someone is interested in the truth they would want to do more in depth research. However, those arguments are pretty good for sowing the seeds for doubt, knowledge and quest for truth. That and they are certainly less subjective than someone's personal opinion, or, erm, "conspiracy theory", as you call it.

    You see, Jesus himself claimed that he was the son of God, and stood by this fact until his death. It was precisely because of this that he was accused of blasphemy, a very serious crime at the time. Hence there can only be two logical conclusions: either he was delusional, or he was telling the truth about himself. The Jesus as some sort of enlightened teacher, prophet or reformer of Judaism doesn't exist. There is no middle way. And Christians don't simply "pay attention" to Jesus, he is the key to our salvation. Jesus himself said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    Yes, indeed!

    I've always found that Christians cannot prove anything in the Bible, other than by quoting you another part of the Bible.
    Actually, if you had watched the video, the Bible is only one example of a source, but not the only source. If someone is interested in evidence for Jesus from outside the Bible, there are plenty of websites and videos which present nonbiblical, secular sources, many of which have already been posted on Skadi, several times. What I have yet to see is some "rational non-believer" bring some rational argument or objective refutation against those sources or arguments. I've always found that atheists, rather than attempting to prove anything Christians say wrong, prefer to resort to ad hominems, mockery or ridicule, either of the person making the argument, or of our faith in general. I don't think I need to specify what rationalists such as Socrates or Jean-Jacques Rousseau said about insults and arguments...

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    I did in fact watch the above video (..4 minutes of my life wasted! ) and it's full of stuff like:

    "He must have been God because he said he was - why would he lie?"
    This is inevitably followed by quotes from Mark, John & Matthew but nowhere in today's enlightened world would this sort of 'evidence' be admissible ... you'd just be laughed out of court

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    I can say I'm the literal son of God, and have someone else (or a bunch of someone else's) write a story (hundreds of years after I said it) about me saying that I said I was the literal son of God, but does this make it true? How can one prove or disprove my claim, or the writer's claim that I said such a thing?

    If you're buying a new fighter jet do you not want detailed schematics, flight test data, engineering data, safety parameters, cost analyses and so on ad nauseum before you put your billions of dollars on the table? When was the last time ANYONE bought a fighter jet, sight unseen, based on the manufacturer's word that it would do everything promised and more?

    Why then, should we not just as deeply explore each and every question about a faith before throwing ourselves in? If we're going to take so much care before buying a fighter jet, why should we not be expected to be a million times more careful before committing our very soul?

    I am not by any means saying or even implying that Christianity (or any faith or religion, for that matter) is inherently wrong across the board- my claim is that given the evidence (or lack thereof), it's a mighty hard product to sell to those who take the time to ask pointed questions about what they're being asked to buy.

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