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Thread: Today's Islam or 13th Century Europe?

  1. #31
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    When it comes to why MSM and mainstream history tries to display it as bad is quite obvious, white guilt and in that matter feeling guilt about our history is a clear agenda. Before Clarke no mainstream historian dared to look behind the false narrative of give all guilt to the Germans when it comes to WW1 so basically for almost a century the whole mainstream history blamed Germany for WW1 and most still do, so much trust I got in mainstream history. Like I said I can go on with the lies about colonialism or french revolution.
    Okay, I'd agree with you on much of that.

    However, it's flawed logic though to assume that because the MSM have lied about some things they must be lying about everything else you disagree with.

    There's no way you can portray the 13th century as being a very nice period, whether in Europe or elsewhere. I don't actually believe those posters who claim they'd rather go back to the 1200's than live in a modern-day society - even a Muslim one!

  2. #32
    Member Teutone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    Okay, I'd agree with you on much of that.

    However, it's flawed logic though to assume that because the MSM have lied about some things they must be lying about everything else you disagree with.

    There's no way you can portray the 13th century as being a very nice period, whether in Europe or anywhere else.
    Sure there is and I showed you why.

    In the historical context heavy punishments for things we dont see as a crime today have to be seen differently. And yes I believe the numbers are exagurated.

    You compare 13th century Europe with Arab countries of today.

    I say you 13th century Europe was already more advanced on every aspects besides scientific achievements, technological level and education/health. Which is all clear in regards to compare Europe of the 13th century to a civilization in 2018.

    Its a clear fact that the view we have on monarchy, feudalism, church and medieval times suddenly changed with the french revolution, and the french revolution was the first step that lead to our current misery.

  3. #33
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    Its a clear fact that the view we have on monarchy, feudalism, church and medieval times suddenly changed with the french revolution, and the french revolution was the first step that lead to our current misery.
    Again, I wouldn't disagree that the FR did a lot of long-term damage.

    With that said, why do you think the French serfs wanted to abolish the monarchy and drastically curtail the power of the Church in the first place?

    It was because these institutions abused their privileges. Do you have any idea how unpopular the Church had become by this time, and not just in France either!

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  5. #34
    Member Teutone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    Again, I wouldn't disagree that the FR did a lot of long-term damage.

    With that said, why do you think the French serfs wanted to abolish the monarchy and drastically curtail the power of the Church in the first place?

    It was because these institutions abused their privileges. Do you have any idea how unpopular the Church had become by this time, and not just in France either!
    Sucessful social engeneering just as we currently undergo a sucessful social engeneering.

    So many factors play a role I dont even dare to be sure if its a planned process or natural human cycles. One thing is sure, whatever or whoever caused it the institutions(including monarchs and church ofc) , social changes, freemasons, a group I am not allowed to mention in Germany or all together, fact of the matter is, it lead to the horrible state of our current societies and false narratives or simply lies about our history, race and origins.

  6. #35
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    Just jumping back to this bit ...

    In the historical context heavy punishments for things we dont see as a crime today have to be seen differently. [...] You compare 13th century Europe with Arab countries of today.
    So you think that sadistic punishments such as ripping off women's breasts and disemboweling men for the 'crime' of fornication (see post #18) was okay in its historical context?

    I don’t, but this is what happens in extreme theocracies where religious bodies make the rules and place a particular emphasis on ‘morality’ (as they see it). So I thought my comparisons between 13th century Europe and today’s more backward Muslim nations such as Somalia, Afghanistan etc.. where women are stoned to death was quite apt in this respect.

    In many other areas too, such as heresy, there are direct comparisons between how the Catholic Church once dealt with this (entailing genocide, in the case of the Cathares) and how Islam treats its non-believers today. Sorry, I just couldn’t help noticing the parallels and this is what inspired my OP.

    -------------------

    So many factors play a role I dont even dare to be sure if its a planned process or natural human cycles. One thing is sure, whatever or whoever caused it the institutions(including monarchs and church ofc) , social changes, freemasons, a group I am not allowed to mention in Germany or all together, fact of the matter is, it lead to the horrible state of our current societies and false narratives or simply lies about our history, race and origins.
    Again, I agree but are you absolutely sure that a certain group didn't manufacture 'Christianity' in the first place to use for its own ends?

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  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    Just jumping back to this bit ...



    So you think that sadistic punishments such as ripping off women's breasts and disemboweling men for the 'crime' of fornication (see post #18) was okay in its historical context?

    I don’t, but this is what happens in extreme theocracies where religious bodies make the rules and place a particular emphasis on ‘morality’ (as they see it). So I thought my comparisons between 13th century Europe and today’s more backward Muslim nations such as Somalia, Afghanistan etc.. where women are stoned to death was quite apt in this respect.

    In many other areas too, such as heresy, there are direct comparisons between how the Catholic Church once dealt with this (entailing genocide, in the case of the Cathares) and how Islam treats its non-believers today. Sorry, I just couldn’t help noticing the parallels and this is what inspired my OP.

    -------------------



    Again, I agree but are you absolutely sure that a certain group didn't manufacture 'Christianity' in the first place to use for its own ends?
    Obviously not, the certain group was humihilated by christians especially during the time we talk about. It was a great reason for unity against foreign threats, infighting happend before and with christianity. What you see as neo protestant view on the certain group was quite the opposite of what the catholic church and Luther had to say about them.

    I dont argue with religious context to a non christian, its pointless so see it this way.

    Jesus was born in the Roman Empire, a semit that left the religion of his tribe leading to clear anti christian stances in the Talmud. You cannot erease a milenia of christian Europe or expect a right winger with even a tiny bit of historical knowledge to not take pride in it.

    I take pride in pagan Hermann as much as I take pride in Karl Martell or Charlemagne.

    Who was the last active resisting ((them)) arent you a facist? So you must be aware of clerical facism.

    Especially Jozef Tiso.

    About the catholic church after Vatican Council 2, there is alot to reject and critizize.

  9. #37
    Senior Member The Aesthete's Avatar
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    The first universities in the Middle Ages arose from Christian orders and Christianity played a major role in scientific, literary and artistic development (e.g. Mendel the father of genetics, The City of God by St Augustine & the Vatican? Of course there were instances in which it acted as a hinderance such as with Gallileo (he was supported by the Jesuits), but the fact that there were such individuals as him speaks for Christianity or so I heard said in a recent podcast.


    It is ridiculous to compare two different epochs
    Our beauty is our power, our strength. We can’t allow them to change us, to lessen us. I will never grant them that satisfaction, and neither should you!

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    Senior Member Mööv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Aesthete View Post
    The first universities in the Middle Ages arose from Christian orders and Christianity played a major role in scientific, literary and artistic development

    Sure they did, because they kept everyone but themselves illiterate.
    Lieber tot als Sklave!

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  13. #39
    Senior Member The Aesthete's Avatar
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    The church did not actively prevent the community from becoming literate in fact quite the opposite. Btw a mostly literate population is a very recent thing even in the West. In many non Western countries illiteracy is still the norm.
    Our beauty is our power, our strength. We can’t allow them to change us, to lessen us. I will never grant them that satisfaction, and neither should you!

    White Oleander

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    Senior Member Mööv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Aesthete View Post
    The church did not actively prevent the community from becoming literate in fact quite the opposite.

    Yes they expected everyone to go to sleep and wake up speaking latin. Bully for you!
    Lieber tot als Sklave!

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