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Thread: Prof. Schulten - In Search of the Atlantis

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    Lightbulb Prof. Schulten - In Search of the Atlantis

    In search of the Atlantis

    During fifty years of his life, professor Schulten carried out historical and archaeological investigations in the Iberian Peninsula, since it was in this place where he understood that the extremity of the great devoured island had to be located. Schulten, who thought that the Iberian Peninsula was a rest of the submerged continent, identified to the kingdom of Tartesos with the Atlantis. The origins of Tartesos are dark and they would go back to the megalítical culture. The kingdom of Tartesos is mentioned in a vague way in the classic sources and during long time it has been in doubt the historicity of this kingdom, but today it seems not to have doubts of its existence. Its geographic extension included the south of Spain and Portugal, from Alicante, in the E., to to opening of the Tajo (the present Lisboa), in the West. Schulten did not find the Atlantis, but did he a disappeared Iberian city: Numancia, described in its time by Cornelio Escipión (133 b. C.). The excavations were continued from 1905 to 1908. In the same way, the German great wise located the main city of the Atlantis, Tartesos, in present Andalusia, the zone of the opening of Guadalquivir river. In the antiquity, this city had the reputation of being fabulously rich. The countryside that surrounds it was described by Posidonio, that makes of it a very detailed painting : rich cultures, an incredibly numerous population and activates would be the characteristic of this country, rich also in metals of all classes, gold, silver, copper and tin. If credit to Rufus Fistus Avenius is granted, who reedited towards year 400 b. C. a treaty of Old Geography, Tartesos would have had the more evolved civilization of the old West, towards year 500 before C., when it would be destroyed by the Carthaginians. Would it be a rest that would have escaped to the destruction of the Atlantis? An atlantis colony perhaps. A categorical affirmation would be dangerous. Perhaps the excavations made near Seville, in the famous bed of the opening of the Guadaquivir, will revive the missing city that the Schulten German considers the city legendary of the atlantis kings...

    Huelva 650 BC.

    In Spain we have personalities like mosén Verdaguer Jacinth, that narrated the divine catastrophe, executed by Hercules, who untied before the degeneration of the Hispanic atlantes. Loving of pagan Greek myths and knowledges, Verdaguer had been noticed of theories that arose on about the existence of the lost continent towards the date of publication of their poem (1877) . According to its text, the existence of the Atlantis originated, tras its collapse, the Greek islands and the Canary Islands. Although hardly can be given its poem ,the Atlantis, an exclusively esoteric or scientific interpretation. Verdaguer, whose illuminated life of has hidden dyes, knew what the excavations in the Mediterranean coasts were discovering with respect to Tartesos, culture that has been related or, in its case, identified, so and as we said above, with the Atlantis.
    Who did not ignore to this relation was Mario Roso of Moon, that dedicated to the problem his VI volume of the Library of the Wonders (1924). According to this teósofist and astronomer, the Atlantis of Verdaguer was inspired by the teosófica mystic of H. P. Blavatsky. With a logical nationalistic overtone added that considers Spain -and specially of the Canary Islands and the South- one of the main atlantis legacies and center of the greatness of the missing continent. Also the poet and teósophist Fernando Villalón explains in his mystical poem the Toriada, the following thing: "fatuous and wild Bulls of Atlantis". And that´s why, for the poet of the 27, Tartesos was, like also for Roso, "the last center of the atlantis civilization". Although they are always the Canary Islands the center of attention of the theories Hispanic-atlantics, the investigator Louis Charpentier says in "the Basque mystery" that guanches, Basoues and caledonians have the same atlantis root.

    According to some investigators and archaeologists like Georgeos Diaz, in Spain we can find what they would be very significant rest of that atlantis past. These archaeologists affirm that diverse old constructions of Spain would not have the origin that official history tries, and indicate, like specially outstanding constructions: the Aqueduct of Segovia, the Arc of Medinaceli (Soria), the Bulls of Stewing (Ávila), the walls of Carmona and rests of constructions in diverse parts, like in the coasts of Cadiz. As much in the Aqueduct of Segovia like in the Arc of Medinaceli, the junctions of stones of these monuments, have gotten to assemble themselves of such form with the passage of time that allow to date their antiquity in several thousands from years before the arrival from the Romans to Spain, although official science insists on attributing to these its responsibility. In these buildings, the different rock blocks that compose them have gotten to assemble themselves totally, losing the original line or junction, due to the natural effect of the "meteorisation" and the "diagénesis", that is to say, the set of physical, chemical and biological changes by means of which the sediments are transformed into sedimentarias rocks with the passage of time. So for a eruptive rock as the granite to be compacted and crystallized of natural form would have to pass much more time that the 2000 years that they attribute to them. According to these experts, the time necessary to cause this phenomenon would be approximately of 11,000 years, peculiarly when the Atlantis disappeared. According to the medieval historical traditions, Híspalis, one of the children of Hercules, were the constructor of the aqueduct of Segovia. On the other hand, the only argument in favor of its Roman responsibility is the stylistic similarity with other aqueducts, which does not serve to invalidate the possibility that the Romans, in fact, copied the models of aqueducts, that were raised hardly 200 years after the arrival from the Empire to the Peninsula. In fact, the archaeologists have hardly found a few objects of Roman origin to be able to demonstrate that the Romans passed trough that way, that is to say, Segovia was not so important as to be raised an aqueduct of such dimensions and perfect work . If the Romans had really raised in a place hardly populated such aqueduct, that would have broken with all the logic that marks the well-known history of them. And it is that, in addition, Plato speaks to us in the Critias of "the aqueducts on the canalized bridges", talking about the constructions of the atlantis centuries before to the Romans, supposed inventors of that revolutionary means of canalization, erected his aqueducts. As much in the Aqueduct of Segovia, like in the walls of Carmona and the Arc of Medinaceli, have been inscriptions composed by tartésic or atlantis letters.

    Official science has established its historical dogma, ,according to which, the history and the civilization begin in a point of the history that they themselves indicate, according to its interest, and it could not never admit that a previous and or a forgotten civilization had existed, being it able to erect monumental constructions as the Aqueduct of Segovia or other so many. Simply, they have atributed it a comfortable author (romans) that complies to his theory of history.

    Plato whom he tries to be in possession of this tradition of Solón, relates in these terms the history of the missing continent:

    "the Atlantic one was then navigable and in front of the Straits that you call Columns of Hercules it was an island greater than Libya and Asia. From this island it was possible to pass easily to other islands, and from these to the continent that surrounds the inner sea. Then what it is of that side of the Straits it seems to a port that has a narrow entrance, but, in fact, there is a true sea there, and the Earth that surrounds to him is a true continent. In this island, Atlantis, reigned monarchs of great and a wonderful power; they had under its dominion the whole island, like many other islands and some parts of the continent. In addition, of this side of the Straits they also reigned on Libya until Egypt, and in Europe until Tirrenia."

    Guadalquivir river.
    The masterpiece of jewelry of Tartessos is the treasure of the Alder grove, in Cáceres. In the image a gold pendant, perhaps the most beautiful piece of all. The pieces that compose this treasure were found in 1920 and it is considered that it was made by tartésics goldsmiths in the VI century BC. The treasure of the Alder grove is one of most valuable of the world by its artísitic perfection..

    Herodoto, on the other hand, describes to Tartesos like ""a people that lived in the center of the lake called Oleum ruled by the king Argantonios (King of the silver)". On the other hand Greek and Romans define to the tartesos like inhabitants of a remote region in Betis river whose capital is located in a great island in the center of a lake in the opening of the river. The name of Tartessos, applied to the country, seemed to come from the main river that crossed it, the same one that the Romans called Oleum flumen (river of the oil) and later Betis, and that now is known with the Arab name of Guadalquivir (Grande river).



    Tartesos was a kingdom that existed during the 1200 BC to the 500 BC, in which moment this mythical kingdom sinks, after the death of its king Argentonios, when succumbing to the Punic invasions ,having lost before the fleet and the allies in a previous confrontation with the alliance Etruscan-Carthaginian. Its capital, called Tharsis , were located in an island formed by the arms of the river mouth, Its main wealth consisted of the cattle ranch and agriculture: oxen as far as first, and olive tree and grapevine used, with cereals, with respect to second. Also they would operate gold mines, silver and tin and knew with complete certainty the work the bronze, and perhaps they had spyings of the metallurgy of the iron brought by the Greeks. Two appointments of the Bible speak eloquently of their abundance in metals : " the king (Salomón) had in the sea a fleet of ships of Tharshis, with the fleet of Hiran. Once every three years it came the fleet from Tharshis and it brought gold and silver" (I Kings 10.22) and in another place "Because the day of the Lord of the armies will appear for all magnificent and the arrogant ones, for all the haughty ones; and they will be humiliated... And for all the ships of Tharshis and everything what is beautiful at sight" (Isaiah, 2, 12, 16) Tharshis usually is identified with Tartessos, with which it would calrify that, together, both fleets of Salomón and the king of Shot, Hiram, were going look for coveted gold, with the silver and tin clear to the country of Tartessos. In addition, the own tartesians would have their corresponding square with which they would go to look for tin, that it was scarce in the country, to the Islands Castérides (or Tin islands ), maintaining active relations of commerce with other towns as it could be deduced of the legendary trip of king Norax. This kingdom of Tartesos dealt with Phoenicians and founded cities under its protectorate on hélade Greek such as Mainake.
    According to Estrabón, the tartesians also constructed engineer installations to regulate and to take advantage of the volume the Guadalquivir; also it assures that they existed inthe borders of the river a great number of rich and flourishing cities.
    The society was divided in several social classes: free princes, priests, retailers, men (farmers, craftsmen, retailers, sailors) and slaves. Its religion had of being politeíst and astral what it is deduced of cults dedicated to the Moon and Venus. Also it is possible that they felt the Punic and Greek influence of rendering cultured Gods like Melkart and Heracles. It did not lack a God of the war, known with the céltic name Net (hero or soldier). Numerous Sierra Morena sanctuaries range seem to have an tartesian origin, and in them have been founded abundant bronze votive offerings that could well be an ancestral memory of the cult it were had in those places. Are they remarkable the news transmitted by the Greek writer Posidonio whom it affirms that the tartesians were hospitable and liberal, active, generous and of cheerfull genius, which connects quite well with the character of the present Andalusians of the coast.

    1 2 3 4 5
    1-tartéssian alphabet 2-rúnic alphabet 3-rétic alphabet 4-lepóntic alphabet 5-nord-Etruscan alphabet

    Other documents of old times defines to this town like descendants or survivors of the Atlantis, the certain thing is that it was an organized affluent state and a refined cultural and politicaly advanced society. Its language was not Indo-European although are him affinities with the iberian and the cretense and this becoming related with the rúnic, rétic, lepóntic, and nord-Etruscan, from which it has been gotten to suggest the possibility that the western origins of the Etruscan people (whose origins are not eastern altought many "investigators" ignore it" ) were indeed in Tartessos.


    Fresh Greek that it describes to the inhabitants Tartessos, we can appreciate they were a nordic type people.

    There are multiple history investigators that consider the possibility that they were the old tartesos the Atlantids ones, if in the rotten text of Plato we understand "Guadalquivir" instead "Atlantic" and we understand rich or culturaly advanced instead of "great" we can considerate that it was in the main island of the old lake of ligustinus, in the opening of guadalquivir river, where would have its capital the old kingdom of Tartessos.

    Next, I include the news of the 11/6/2004:
    Source:EFE

    Recent satelite photographies of the zone agree with descriptions of Plato of the lost city.
    According to informs the British BBC, several photographies done by satellite of the zone, well-known today like the salt marsh of Hinojos, reveal structures that agree with the descriptions carried out by the Greek philosopher Plato.
    One of the members of the team of scientists, Rainer Kuehne, explains that the word "island" that used Plato to talk about to the Atlantis could be in fact one section of coast that was submerged between 800 and 500 AC by a great flood.
    Between the photos of the salt marsh, they so emphasize two rectangular structures and the rest of several concentric ring that would have surrounded them, and as it indicated the Greek philosopher.
    "Plato spoke of an island of 925 meters of diameter that was surrounded by several circular structures, concentric ring, some of earth and others of water", Kuehne explained.
    The rectangular structures, added, could be the ruins of a "temple of silver" dedicated to the God of the sea, Poseidón, and a "gold temple" in honor of Poseidón and Cleito, that also appear in the dialogues of Plato.
    However, the scientists have observed that the size of the "island" and its ring are something greater than the described ones by the Greek philosopher, although they have two explanations to the matter.
    One is that Plato, simply, calculated bad and underestimated the real size of the Atlantis. Another one is that the old Greek unit of measurement was, in fact, a 20% greater of which it was believed at that time. If this one last explanation is certain, one of the rectangles of the "island" exactly has the same dimensions that the Temple of Poseidón of which it speaks Plato.
    The theory that locates to the Atlantis in Spain is not new. The specialist Werner Wickboldt was first in discovering those structures after raking at great length with the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea.
    Also Wickboldt thinks that the Greeks confused the Egyptian word for coast and they translated like island when transmitting history to the following generations.
    These conclusions, that they have become public in the electronic magazine "Journal Antiquity", are part of an ample investigation still in course, according to noticed the BBC today.



    Recent discoveries carried out by reputed scientists make agree the description of the island of the Atlantis that Plato does in its dialogues-Critón- and -Timeo- , with the salt mines of the Salt marsh of Hinojos, it lines up buried under waters towards VII or VIII b.C. century and that, as it is known, remained flooded until the average age. Two rectangular structures visible for the satellites agree with the measures and dispositions of the supposed temples, silver for Poseidón, and gold, for Cleito and Poseidón. Part of the enormous concentric circles, that would surround both constructions according to the classic description, also appears visible in the takings. This line of investigation makes relate to the Atlantis to Tartessos, whose neuralgic city has not been discovered even.

    But the advanced culture, the commerce, the mining and the metallurgical techniques of Tartessos have their precedent in the culture of the Argar (1800 BC - 1200 BC) preceded by the one of Los Millares(3000 BC - 1800 BC), both located in present Almeria and pertaining to the call "people of the campaniforme glass". (campaniforme = bell shape)


    GGeneral View of Los Millares.

    One of the more important archaeological deposits of European prehistory. Almost 5,000 years of history. A city that got to lodge more than 1,000 people A complex defensive system made up of 15 bunkers and 4 linen cloths of wall. With one necrópolis of more than 100 tombs of false cupola ("Tholoi"), for collective interments. Careful and solid constructive technique in the constructions and tombs Great delicacy and symbolism in the ceramic elaboration. At last, a culture with very developed beliefs and technical knowledge , that got to use the metallurgy of copper in the manufacture of some arms and tools.

    The town of "Los Millares" is located in Santa Fé de Mondujar, Almeria, its population was over the thousand of inhabitants and their extension, the complexity of his defensive systems and the evolved of its necrópolis and funeral rites do not have comparison in the Europe of their time, this culture was in addition the pioneer of the copper metallurgy in the west.


    Pictures from Los Millares.

    During many years it has dominated in Prehistory the difusionist theory, that it served to explain the appearance of a same phenomenon in different geographic contexts by colonization or contacts with the considered the creative ones of the phenomenon. Thus, according to this classic thesis, the origin of the metallurgical culture of the Milllares, like the one of Vila Nova of San Pedro (Portugal), tied to the arrival of colons arrived from the Aegean Sea. This hypothesis, cradle in the similarity with the tombs of false cupola (tholoi) and some Greek fortifications, supposed to reduce the chronologies of the peninsular cultures to the 2,300 to b.C.


    ""Tholoi" or "Tholos", also called "corridor tombs" or " artificial caves", in fact (as it is seen next) old pyramids, exists more of a hundred in "Los Millares".


    Lately, diverse investigators based in the datings contributed by Carbon 14, have demonstrated that "Los Millares" existed in very previous date; for wich reason the appearance of the metallurgy in this zone would have a local explanation thanks to the existence and development of a previous culture, (The Culture of Almeria), about 3,000 years b.C. (approx), from 3000 b.C. detects in Portugal and Andalusia the appearance of new types of tombs, "artificial caves" and "tholoi" (later we will verify that the last investigations speak to us of a much greater antiquity, 4000 b.C, of the oldest rest). The historians have treated during long time to attribute the origin of these innovations to influences of Near East, via Aegean. Nevertheless, the datings are very insistently earlier for these types of funeral constructions in the Iberian Peninsula that in the Aegean. It is very probable therefore that the "artificial caves" are of iberian native origin, existing still serious doubts with respect to "tholoi", of the Eastern tradition.

    It is indeed the enormous amount of "tholois" present in Greece and Crete the one that made suppose many investigators who were original colons of the east those that they iniciated the call "culture of Almeria", although the last datings with more modern methods have demonstrated a much greater antiquity for the Andalusian "tholoi" (that date from before the 3000 b.C.), which demonstrates that the diffusion of this type of constructions or culture fué were, from Andalusia towards the Aegean where they appear these constructions between the 2400 b.C. and the 2000 b.C., reason why we can deduce that they were old Andalusian emigrants (or Atlantids ones) those that they colonized Greece and Crete. We do not forget in addition that several students do emphasize the similarities between the tartésian language and the cretense one and even arose the possibility of an intimate proximity or kinship between both preIndo-European languages. Therefore we found in addition to the "tholois" more than a possible linguistic nexus that it would demonstrate that a western people colonized and civilized the cícladic islands in those remote times.

    Old Indians legends tell:
    "In the distant night of prehistory arrived at the coasts of the New World white men with long beards, which became united to the Indians and they taught science to them, the technique and the wise laws of their outpost civilization...", "... and those that they arrived by the sea turned tehmselves the white Gods of those empires." In all the cultured towns of the New World subsists still the legend of the white God. The Incas called to him Kon Tiki Illac Viracocha; the Mayans, Kukulkán; the toltecas and the Aztecs, Quetzalcoatl. Between the Chibchas it was Bochica, "the white mantle of the light". According to the old legend, the white man arrived a good day that inculcated to all the Mayan people the laws and the writing and all venerated him like a God. Those white Gods, according to myths, arrived from the East in the most remote antiquity, in strange and enormous ships from which descended blond foreign men of white skin and blue eyes.
    In the Mayan writings they appear with enough frequency those signs saved of burns and reunited it by the bishop Diego de Landa, who said that they represented the days and the months: The signs of the De Landa Bishop.

    Ver fichero adjunto 1.

    In many cases the agreement between the Mayan writing with the archaic linear "a" cretense writting (also called proto-linear) is so great, until in the minimum details, than we can affirm that the Mayan writing is the old cretense writing.

    Ver fichero adjunto 2.

    It would be of great importance to be able to demonstrate the identity of the phonetic value of both series of signs. But science shuts up here. If, on the one hand we know enough good the sounds that correspond to cretense linear "B" writing , nothing we know of the linear "a" one, older. The same we say of the Mayan glifos (more on the subject in http://www.labherm.filol.csic.es/Sa... as/GTrabazo.htm) Is nevertheless worthy of mention, that in the few cases that know the acoustic values the cretenses symbols and those of the Mayans (for example: p explosive and the t = ta), such values agrees. We can then affirm, that the white God of the Mayan people, that also taught to them all the technical accomplishments, the culture and the writing, that white God, the old Kukulcán, wrote in cretense. The older known texts in linear "a" cretense writing date from the 1850 b.C., although the certain thing is that the linear "a" writing to derived from another old one cretense hieroglyphic writing called by the specialists proto-linear or archaic linear "a" reason why or we could be ventured to even imagine to Kukulkán arriving at the américas on the 2300 b.C. or before. Indeed the older architectonic monumental set of America located in Peru in the place called today "the Paraiso " dates from those years also ", is of this zone, near Tiahuanaco of where it has settled down, by means of a process of analysis and comparison of the style and system in the stature of stones and sculptures, that we´ll find the place of the original culture that was the root of the old civilizations of the ámerica´s peoples.



    "the Paraiso" the datings done with carbon 14 throw dates between the 2273 b.C. and 1908 b.C.
    Could then be Atlantids those cretenses travellers who colonized America introducing the civilization and initiating the construction of colossal pyramids, by the 2000 b.C.?

    The incredible secret of "tholoi":

    Although "Los Millares" necrópolis is really impressive, the certain thing is that we have not yet discovered its secrets, the certain thing is that all the "Los Millares" culture sources come from another previous and still much more enigmatic culture that left their archaeological testimonies in the findings of the Cave of the Romeral and the "artificial" Cave of Menga. The old "caves" or "corridor tombs", the most impressive megaliths of the peninsula, with their corridor and his camera and constructed with great stones, belong to the older constructive tradition of the West.
    Last edited by Siegfried; Tuesday, October 5th, 2004 at 07:23 PM. Reason: request

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    Post Re: The Atlantis.

    The misterious Megaliths

    I show you here an impressive work of archaeological investigation made by Alberto Guzmán:

    As an introduction
    During the three last years I have overturned my efforts in deepening in archaeological vestiges that are considered the most important ones of Europe in their sort but which, unjustly, they have been forgotten by most of the investigators as soon as they have studied these constructions individually, without connecting them with the frame in which they are developed nor with the cultures that few years later and/or contemporarily arose in others very distant zones from ours, now, small planet. The reader would turn out derisory to verify the lack of documentation that of these three masterpieces of the Humanity exist in the universities and bookstores . The conclusions that I am going to contribute are provisional but objective and are the fruit of a gradual data summary and measurements "in-situ" but also of a laborious work of library. I ask the reader understands that the thesis that I present/display has been made quickly and with the own limitations of the bases. But I create sincerely that these megalítics monuments hide in their entrails a wisdom surrounded by mystery that are worth the trouble to scrutinize.

    Prehistory or Megahistory
    The pyramids of Egypt began to take form. Stonenghe hoped to its engineers for its construction. Meanwhile, in the south of the Iberian Peninsula, concretely in the immense antequera´s plain that rises 600 m on the level of the sea, next to the great rock of human characteristics, the megalítica work more colossal was constructed than until then the humanity had known. It does more than 5000 years that a reduced group of workers, with the single aid of their own arms, erected dolmen of Menga. Centuries later, as following ritual marked by stars, arose dólmenes from Vieira and the Romeral. But that relation exists among them and what reason to a rustic town to erect so colossal constructions?

    Dating of Egyptian pyramids
    The reader has very possibly wanted to clarify the antiquity of the Egyptian monuments when beginning to read the present work . Although it is certain that the archaeologists date with total precision the construction of main pyramids around the 2500 BC, is not it less than certain peculiarities would locate thousands of years before. But we have to consider recent investigations that contribute a systematic location of pyramids of Gizeh and the Esfinge taking care of the position of the constellations of Orión and Leo. would be a transferred stellar scheme to barren African earth.
    The simulations made by computer locate this agreement between the years 10,970 and 8,810 BC, unequivocal detail of which the three great pyramids were conceived at least in those days, but not for that reason were constructed then. We do not have to forget other astronomical aspects that they would agree with the dating that the archaeologists take like valid: the situation of wells and passages that arise from the calls Camera of the King and Camera of Reina. First it is oriented to the north, whereas the second towards the south. Only at the time corresponding to the 2500 BC, four wells perfectly they were aligned with the transit by the meridian of four stars known by its great importance for old the Egyptians: Beta of the Little Bear, Alpha of the Greater Dog, Alpha of Drago'n and Theta de Orión.
    The meticulous studies made by diverse authors value the last hypothesis for the dating of three pyramids but they maintain that all that compendium of engineering, was conceived almost 6000 years, before.

    Dating of dólmenes of Antequera
    Lamentably the investigations on the three megaliths of the antequerana region, Menga, Vieira and the Romeral , have been limited to follow the procedures typical to establish its antiquity, avoiding the possible astronomical character of the constructions and considering the exclusively funeral purpose . This last point is very debatable, in my point of view, as we will treat more ahead.
    For it, the authors, have followed the methods of stratigraphy and the "sequenzation or seriation" (seriación). Nevertheless, more exact others like Carbon 14, the termoluminiscence, Potassium Argon or the series of Uranium, could not have been evaluated because they are not, in the two older ones, rests wichs allow this one type of analytical. The most disquieting and complex problem is its chronological position since the found rock representations dates are established by comparisons with the elements that integrate the movable art. Serve the following example: let us suppose that within 5,000 years the rest of a house are investigated Andalusian. The archaeologists find a computer that corresponds to be made in the 2000 by comparison with other similar findings. Next to those rest there is a picture. Automatically it will be dated like from the same date, that is to say, about year 2000, although in fact one was a relic of the II century that belonged to the members of that house. In this cunning one example an error of dating of 1800 years exists already.
    Return again to the cave of Menga. The enclave has been used, until does few years, like refuge of shepherds and its cattles. Long before it was it by different cultures. The theories of the archaeologists suppose that it was a collective tomb, but were not buried human rest in her, although it is possible, as we see more ahead, than were sacked.
    At the moment one occurs by valid the fact that the cave of Menga was constructed between the 3000 and the 2500 b.C. Nevertheless, recent investigations with the use of the C14 in samples of the ground, have been giving it a considerably superior antiquity , the year 4000 BC, that is to say, for 6000 years.

    The origin of dólmenes.
    With the neolithic culture a new espirituality arises that modifies the vision that the man has of his own universe. The beliefs of the agriculturist man have to do with the elements of the nature: rain, sun, wind, earth, of which it depends to guarantee his subsistence. These new convictions are materialized in the construction of megaliths, a way to express the first religious manifestations and to shape the idea of the eternal Renaissance. Menhirs acts like mediators between the man and the powerful forces of the cosmos. They are permanent symbolic elements, that the man erects with an express will of eternity. Stonehenge and Menga, are oriented towards the summer solstice. The sun rays, in the last case, affect against the depth of their camera after crossing more than 20 meters of route. Even so, the archaeologists indicate a tradicionist origin to the construction of these megaliths, that is to say, they consider them an intuitive return to the caverns, refuge place during millenia of the primitive man. Nevertheless, after a long period of meditation and investigation of the land, I can conclude that, in the cases that we will study they let have sense. The presumed "cult to the caves" could have been with no need maintained to construct artificial maneuverses of so laborious effort. To several kilometers of distance we found caves natural some of which they were used by prehistoric cultures like the one of the Pileta (Benaoján), the one of Nerja, the one of Doña Trinidad (Ardales) or Navarrese Cave (Cove of the Moral), without mentioning all those that we found in the province of Almeria. Others neither so at least were enjoyed even though were the more near.

    New vision of the "cave" of Menga
    The Cave of Menga is oldest of the three. In one from my last visits to the place it surprised to me the commentary of a Madrilenian traveller: "I have been in Egypt but those stones with which they constructed the pyramids although colossal were relatively manageable. Those, the ones of Menga, being older, are extraordinary and incredibly disproportioned to be transferred ".
    Indeed, one of the slabs that form the ceiling weighs a minimum of 180 tons. This calculation has taken place measuring its proportions (6m x 7m). That is to say, this one single block has a surface of 42 m2. Altogether a minimum of 33 stony blocks of characteristic similars exists that assume come from the Hill de la Cruz, located to more of kildel place and access laboriously escarped. The traction animal was not well-known thus is created were ómetro transferred by means of the use of great trunks of wood and great amount of human energy. But something does not fit.
    If we observed with thoroughness each one of the blocks (photo 1) we will verify the relative perfection of its edges. They do not seem to be struck or to be eroded by the long transfer. In addition, most of these blocks they are of an exquisite completion that practically get to fit with the others (photo 2). If to it we united the one that has not demonstrated the existence of a slums of consideration in those places and those times, certain questions arise that we will try to respond more ahead. Why bothered themselves those men in constructing a "tomb" in a uninhabited place, using heavy and nonmanageable stones? The monument of Menga, is oriented to the East. Since there are saying, still in our days the rays of the solstice penetrate until the bottom of the "cave", illuminating it until in his more recondite spaces. The length of this one monuments is difficult to calculate given the disappearance of some of the components of the original entrance. All it is at the present time covered by an accumulation of land and stones of a diameter of 50 meters and that at the moment has a height of approximately 12 meters. In figure 1 I have tried to represent the present state of dolmen so and as we know it. In figure 2 I represent the original appearance of the monument. It must be considered that in these 5000 years, probably 6000, the erosion produced in rains, snows and winds has had to leave a track that at this point of the investigation I cannot precise with exactitude but that it´s easily suspected. 6,000 years ago a great plain appeared to us, as soon as without trees.
    At The distant spot we would see a great construction, finished, covered with well laminated fine slate. Something only for the eyes of the little inhabitants of those cold regions. The monument, of a height of 30 meters and with a diameter of 70 appeared majestic, doing become smaller to the man who contemplates it. To the dawn, the Sun would indicate a place special, the entrance, possibly camouflaged. Some that another year, strange visitors, after a complicated ritual, approached and, after a manipulation of devices, they opened that vestige, acceding to its inner brilliant. Then the ceremony began." This image that I have tried to reproduce is of easy intuition if we moved away the sufficient thing of the place. A kilometer of distance, for example, we will observe a protuberance in the land that emphasizes the others mainly. Only cypresses placed recently, prevent to revive the ancestral image.
    It has been impossible to me until the moment to demonstrate the original appearance of the monument in those times. Was accumulated earth on him of anarchical form or it was tried to obtain a concrete geometric figure? Everything aims at the second end. An aerial View of the land gives us the answer, at least apparent. The aspect, as we have commented before, had to be perfectly circular. Nevertheless I can to be able to affirm that its original aspect could be piramidal, of four perfectly aligned sides. This affirmation, that can seem frivolous, will be complemented with the studies made in Vieira and the Romeral and could be conclusive if I had some means that, possibly in years, will be to my reach.
    To this height of the thesis it is possible to emphasize a last and important note referring to "Menga". The monument presents/displays an unusual characteristic. Paintings, or rest of them do not exist, in all the monument. Nevertheless, to a meter of the entrance, to the left and almost to three meters of height, they emphasize five incrustations in the stone (figure 3). The archaeologists have defined them as "anthropomorphous" figures. Indeed, two of them could represent men with the arms in top own of the schematic unusual Prehistoric Art in the peninsular south. Other two represent crossings, too schematic ,to my point of view, to represent a person. The last one is clear, deliberately clear. The first impression is that is a star of five ends, that it seems to indicate to the other two, or four, dólmens. Let me the reader a brief meditation: "before knowing the existence of those figures I toke photos from the place. When revealing the spool I distinguished clearly the existence of those objects. After later visits indeed I have verified that existed and are registered by different authors in his works. But in that photo exists also another image, stranger and not registered in other authors works. The fervor of the watchmen has at the moment prevented me to verify it on the stone." We have treated the fact that already the star king affected each morning the entrance of our "temple" but it is necessary to indicate that, according to enough approximated calculations, the constellation of Orión would be visible from the entrance when arising by the horizon. But we leave this one coincidence for more ahead.


    The dólmen of Vieira
    Seventy meters of distance of Menga we found a new one and fascinating the dolmen. Catalogued as corridor tomb, is of those of greater known dimensions,of this type. It is formed by a corridor with doors drilled in his principle and end, giving this last access to which it assumes was a funeral camera. The corridor conserve intact a section formed by eight ortostatos and covered by four blankets. The length overall, measurement personally, are of 12 meters and have a height of 1,70 meters approximately. The last section, of almost six meters, very is deteriorated. The corridor closes itself with a stone with wrought hollow. As much this one dolmen as the one of Menga were known sacked already. The little material that provided its excavation has been dating it for 4,500 years.
    According to the investigations made and not yet concluded, there are no proofs of interment in it. Only the Archaeological Museum of Madrid, seems to have human rest coming from that zone. Rich adorned and surrounded by his properties, it could have belonged to this "tomb", but it has at the moment not been possible to confirm this point.
    We have to consider, to face the truth, that these constructions are known, historically speaking, from XVII century . Sackings and usurpations have taken place until makes 20 years so single. In fact, in 1904 when they are discovered dólmenes of Vieira and the Romeral, already they were sacked.
    As we have already said the part of the corridor it is conserved intact and it is formed by five great slabs, four form the walls and a blanket at the same level that the corridor.
    Have not been founded inscriptions in Vieira, but a concientious examination of the entrance, of the slabs that stay still erected , at least discover a new mystery to us: one is several perforations made in the immense stone, perfectly circular (photo 5), of 5 centimeters of diameter and a depth of about ten centimeters. I interrogated diverse archaeologists of the zone, to the own beadles and no knew to answer to me. What yes they assured is that they had not been made by the discoverers but who always they have been there. What indicates those perforations to us?
    One is oriented to the West, just in the opposite sense that the near Menga. Weigh later has to be constructed five hundred years, his completion is perfect. The blocks, of so large minor that the previous one, are perfectly fitted with the others, of millimetric form (photo 4). It turns out paradoxical to listen to speak to some authors of the excellence of the unions in pyramids and the incaicas constructions and to ignore the perfect one in the cut and the transport of our near "temple".
    If as the investigators suppose, the Viera Dolmen was a tomb , this one were individual. The importance of the "being" who was buried there had to be supernatural, more also came from distant spot, considering the little prehistoric establishments, as far as populated talks about, found in the zone. Existed an astronomical shade in the direction of Vieira? As we finished indicating exists a drastic opposition with relation to dolmen of Menga. Then indeed. In this case, and still by incredible that seem, the constellation of Orión disappeared exactly by that point in the summer solstice. It is impossible for this one author, at the moment, to determine wich star was the one that had exactly its decline affected by the sealed door of our "temple". An advanced computer science program and precise measurements on the land, not only determined that question but that also they will be able to date with exactitude his construction.
    Vieira also was place setting by mount of clay, that still in our days is conserved. If in the case of Menga, being compouned by stones, the erosion has made an impression on its original dimensions. How much also greater will have been the erosion in the mount of fine earth that covers Vieira?




    The Dolmen of the Romeral
    We´ll left out of side some complementary appreciations of dólmenes of Menga and Viera and we´ll move two kilometers to dedicate a space to this one last Calcolítich monument. When we entered there for the first time we felt a strange sensation of isolation. The world seems to stop..., silence seizes of the space and appears that magical scent that only sometimes very special it is possible to be felt. The hairs bristle as if a strong electrical energy existed. When by second, third and successive times we return to enter, those sensations instead of guarding itself like infantile fear, are made still more hard. What happens in "the Romeral"? When it removes for the first time the compass under the great cupola I could not believe it. It turned and it turned without indicating course. When changing of position this one stops and it indicates us that it is oriented to the north.
    This one dolmen is considered the oldest one in using the false cupola, of type tholos or tholoi. The corridor is of trapezial form. He is formed by several cameras. First of her he is of circular form and he is closed by a great slab. In the other side the entrance to the second camera, also of plant circular but of smaller dimensions is opened and covered by another great slab. These oscillate between a weight of 25,000 and 30,000 kilos each one. There, to 20 centimeters of the ground there is a slab embedded in the wall, where was part of thetrousseau of the dolmen.
    All the set is, once again, covered by a gigantic mount of fine earth, whose high point but agrees with the greater one of the cameras. The authors date it with an antiquity from 4,000 years.
    As far as its dimensions we were in the same previous case: the destruction from the corridor or main entrance. Calculations taken by this one author give ten meters until the first camera, four meters for greater camera and three for the minor, cover with the "tablet". To these measurements we must add 6 meters of runner destroyed by the time that gives a length overall us of the monument of 28,5 meters. These dimensions, related to monuments previously indicated, respond to a cause that at the moment is impossible to include in this one work but which they know clearly astronomical meaning for any profane one. At the present time they are being studied with detail by the author.
    As far as other astronomical aspects we will emphasize several points: first of them its the obvious and perpetual alignment with the Polestar, the second its exact coincidence in summer with the passage by the horizon of the main star of the constellation of the Great Bear, and finally its perfect direction towards the dolménic set of Menga and Viera. This last point foments still more if it fits, the importance of the monumental sets previously indicated and indicates the strong oldest, colossal and simultaneously amazing relation with the constructions of the "cave" of Menga.

    Relation between dólmenes and dólmenes to discover
    Until the moment we have indicated individual characteristics of each one of the constructions. We have glimpsed certain relation among them. We have recognized, in a concrete zone of peninsular geography, to a culture that is had displaced exclusively to construct, during tens of years, a colossal work that lasts almost with splendor like in the first days. Also we have verified certain "astrological coincidences" that they put in prohibition the theories of traditional students on the origin of these monuments. We recognize improper knowledge of these cultures that practically finish leaving their natural shelters and they are bothered in transferring tons of stone to construct "temples" that are not useful for the daily life. And we have verified like, the only outline that is carved in the stone represents a star of five ends.
    The author creates, is convinced, that the dolménics sets of Antequera, respond to a stellar map that indicates some unexpected event to us that frame the history of several tribes located in very distant points. The study of the inscriptions of Menga, concretely of the carved near star and reflected figure in one of the taken photographies, could take to us until Africa in an amazing relation and unsuitable of a terrestrial culture.
    This stellar map (figure 4) us discovers the aerial View to it of the zone. A strange coincidence of symmetry between the main conducted constellation on scale. I am convinced that two still exist dólmenes to discover located to several hundreds of meters of the main ones. In fact, observing the land, we will distinguish two hills in form of a mount that emphasize on the plain that makes the rounds to all the place. At that moment we will totally confirm the exposed hypothesis.

    As a conclusion
    The studies made on the land have been extremely laborious, still more when not counting on the total authorization of the organizations, and they have not been concluded. I have tried to even open a mysterious relation that would take to us from Antequera to Egypt happening through the Los Millares (Almeria), the tholois (Greece), the mysterious inscriptions saharaüis and until the New Continent. Serve work the present as mere approach and know the reader who data and details are to keep awake. PHOTOS




    Last edited by Siegfried; Tuesday, October 5th, 2004 at 10:34 AM.

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    Post A Mythical Founding Race Of the Old Civilizations

    The man of Cro-magnon and the Egyptians.
    To which family can we tie the race of the "carriers" of the Egyptian civilization? All the observations would tend to demonstrate that it was a men of the Cro-Magnon type. This type, predominant within the aristocracy, would have disappeared of the highest leaders circles of Egypt in the environs of XVIII the dynasty, when it ended up mixing itself with the Semitic and niger immigrants.

    Sir Wallis Budge, in the Thirties, being based on the observation of numerous non mummified bodies (but conserved for the sands of the desert) affirmed that " The predynastic Egyptian belonged to a white or a clear skin race with clear hair; they were in many old aspects similar to the Libyans ".

    This same race can also be appreciated in many of the non sacked recoupered tombs and in representations of the Pharaohs and members of its clan shaped in the temples and funeral monuments of Dynastic Egypt. In last centuries, these characteristics would call the attention of the egipt investigators, surprised to find them in an African region.

    The father of the Egyptology, Sir Flinders Petrie, was one of first in indicating it in 1901: "the fisiognomy shows a pronouncing and decisive connection between prehistoric Egypt and old Libya, and on the other hand the anthropology supports the numerous archaeological testimonies that denote a near connection between Egypt and Libya. Nowadays its sounds strange and rare to hear that the old Libyan ones were white and blond, but the Latin writers of the antiquity already had reported it, like Escílax, navigator and Greek geographer of the century VI. On the other hand, the Greek writer Plutarco had talked about the people of Seth, regent of Egypt during the First Dynasty (3,100 b.C.), like formed by red haired men, like the Libyans. At the beginning of century XX, the Egyptian historian Maspero indicated that "this king of the Egypt was associate with the desert of Libya and the Libyans. In fact, he was identified himself with the Libyan God Ash ". The Egyptian language is very similar to the Libyan.

    Years before the anthropologist A. Pietrement ,in a test published in 1883, had talked about the lessons that the old Egyptian paintings contributed to the naturalists, etnógraphs and historians. In these paintings the Libyans were white men and women with blond hair, blue eyes and Nordic face characteristics. Anthropologist Carleton Coon, of the University of Harvard, advanced in 1939 interesting hypotheses being based on the archaeological testimonies. In their work "the races of Europe", he made reference to a testimony: "queen Hetep-Heres II of IV the Dynasty, daughter of Keops, appears in bas-relief of her tomb with the hair of blond color, horizontal wicks red haired and the white skin". The mentioned daughter of Keops was not the only red haired of the family. Also their wife and her sister-in-law were it, like many other members of the class run. The wife of another Pharaoh, Kefren, was red haired with blue eyes, according to is observed in the representations, like in the tomb of the wife of Zoser Pharaoh, (2800 b.C.) of III the Dynasty, that also was blond/red haired.

    By the observations of Coon on the Libyans it is more than probable that all of them had antecedents in this old ethnic group: "For 3,000 years, during the Superior Paleolític a group of Cromagnon, called men of Afalou, lived in North Africa and the Libyans descend from them. Many of them were red haired and this characteristic still persists in the zone, At the present time, the characteristics of this human type are mainly in Norway, Ireland and the Moroccan Rif. Modern bereberes descends from old the Libyans ". This was not a mere hypothesis. Coon was in the certain thing. The investigations of Cavalli Sforza and other genetists of the Princetown University confirmed by the results of DNA tests fulfilled in the Nineties that bereberes are next to the British more than any other African or European racial group. Do exist also other confirming data relative to the size and forms of the skulls of Cromagnon found in Afalou bou Rummel (Algeria), that are equal to the founded ones in Denmark and Sweden. Coon also spoke of a "race of megaliths constructors" that was located between the Nordic and the one of Cromagnon, that after to have constructed astronomical temples like the one of Stonehenge or underground pyramids like Silbury Hill in England, and numerous alignments in French Britain as those of Carnac (to see the linguistic similarity with Egyptian Karnac) and many other constructions mainly from the West of Europe, took with himself its knowledge to the Mediterranean, North Africa, Libya and Egypt.

    In the middle of century XX, the anthropologist Raymond A. Dart made a series of works on fossil Egyptian skulls that, apparently, had only Nordic characteristics . Also Egypt raked four great invasions Nordic in (the previous one was previous to the well-known dynasties) and affirmed that "the Egyptian faronic type was of Nordic origin like proves the head of the Pharaoh Rameses II, whose skull was pelágic ellipsoid, that is to say, Nordic". He lacked an analysis of the hair of this Pharaoh, but in 1993, anthropologists G. Elliot, B. Smith and W.R. Dawson analyzed it with microscope and confirmed that he was Nordic, just as their skull. Also they carried out anthropological measures in 25 groups of different skeletons worldwide and concluded that the pyramid constructors Pharaohs descended from this "mythical megalítical race" of which speaks Coon: "Altogether, they show bows with the European neolithic , North Africa, modern Europe and more remotely, India" The group of skeletons that comes more near to the old Egyptians is the one of the neolithic French ". Indeed, the constructors of the mentioned prehistoric megaliths.


    "Filogenetical tree" of 49 studied African ethnic groups, to observe the intimate proximity between bereberes, canarians, Libyans and egipitians..

    They were not only many blond or red haired Pharaohs. The archaeological and paleoantropológical rest that reflect the existence of Egyptian blondes, red haired, of clear eyes and white race in old Egypt are numerous. Next we´ve emphasized some of them reported in different anthropological (B. Smith and W. R. Dawson) or aqueológicals sources (Sir Wallis Budge and Sir Flinders Petrie):
    - One red haired mummy, red moustache and beard near pyramids of Saqqara.
    - red haired mummies in the caverns of Aboufaida
    - One mummy blond in Kawamil, along with other many of brown hair.
    - Mummies of brown hair found in Silsileh.
    - mummy of queen Tiy had waved and brown hair.
    - Red haired heads in a rural scene in the tomb of the Meketre nobleman (around year 2000 b.C.).
    - In the tomb of Menna, the west of Tebas (XVIII Dynasty), in a scene painted in a wall they are appreciated blond young people and a blond man supervising to workers of grain dark skin harvesting.
    - funeral Wake of the red haired priest Remi.
    - Talismans with a blue eye called the eye of Horus.
    - red haired aegiptian with painting blue eyes of III the Dynasty.
    - a painting in the tomb of Meresankh III in Gizeh (around the 2,485 b.C.) it shows red haired personages of white skin.
    - a painting of the tomb of Iteti in Saqqara shows a blond man of Nordic aspect.
    - Paintings of red haired people with blue eyes in the tomb of Bagt, Beni Hassan.
    But they exist in addition, many other archaeological rests that represent individuals of white race in old Egypt. Thus, the Egyptian museum of the Cairo lodges thousands of treasures and among them, the statues of Rahotep and Nofret have white characteristics and the eyes of blue color. In the same room in that these two are conserved sculptures we can see other representations of the same period that shine blue or gray eyes. It is the case of the famous one writes Morgan, or of the wood statue of Seikh the Beled. The Museum of the Louvre in Paris conserves between its treasures the statue of the famous one writes seated (2500 b.C.), also discovered by the Mariette French in the Serapeum de Sakkara in the decade of 50 of century XIX All of them have the same characteristics.Just like we´ve said, the presence of these characteristics of white race, occurs basically in the first dynasties.

    Guanches

    The Guanches constitute the substrate of the population (original people) of the Canary Islands, are a race, that although extinguished, has left us numerous testimonies for its study. The high stature, observed in all mummys (two meters of average), the considerable craneana capacity (1900 cm3), the greatest is well-known, the cephalic index (77.77 in the men), indicate a very pure ancestry, at the time of being examined these mummys, some of them had the hair arranged in and cleared golden, long tufts. This people of the primigéneous Nordic type was in Europe Sudoccidental like testimony of the race that during the age of ice lived in the extreme conditions of cold of the climate, the well-known today like Nordic, and who reigned in that age in zones of much more to the south, like Andalusia. The age of ice began 2 million ago years, although defrosting began on the 13000 BC, is considered that it did not finish until the 10,000 BC when the "eternal ices" had retired to the north of Hamburg, 2,500 years later the ice border was located on Stockholm. It will be with the end of this age of the ice when the protonórdics peoples initiate their migration from the zones of the south following the great herds of reindeer that migrated to the north looking after the tundra. Slowly after the course of millenia they reached Germany, Denmark and Sweden, where they were based permanently.

    Guanches, Egyptian, Basque, bereberes and the preIndo-European languages.

    In a recent study conducted by scientists German the two basic lines of the investigation - the genetic and the linguistic one take both to the same conclusion: there is a common substrate for most of the European people that its relationated with the Basque people: "Many names of establishments, rivers, mountains, valleys and landscapes of Europe would have their origin in preIndo-European languages, concretely in the Basque...

    ... "The prehistoric European vascones (or basques) not only left names geographic. In more than a region - the investigation adds- we find signs of its old form to count. The Indo-European brought the decimal system, but the Basoues of our days continue counting on twenty base : twenty and ten - hogeita hamar- (thirty), twice twenty (forty), twice twenty and ten (fifty). Celtas would have taken from vascones the vigesimal system, that was conserved in the old French. Still some relics like quatre-vingts last (four times twenty), quatre-vingt-DIX (ninety)". The investigators aim that that language was extending itself and influencing in all Europe (they review examples of Germany, England...), but also in Morocco (the distance of the coasts at the glacial time was minor that the present one) they even find places with clearly basque names . In fact, a bereber dialect , the "tajelshit" one, also has a vigesimal system ." The old cretense language and the Mayan language also used the vigesimal system for their accounts. In this case we found, once again, beyond the genetic substrate, a sample of which also exists also a linguistic substrate that unites in the preIndo-European or Atlantis family to peoples like the Basques, French, bereberes and, as it was previously commented , also to the old íberos, tartessos, cretenses, Etruscan and Mayan among others.

    The titled book "Egyptian, bereberes, guanches and Basques" published by the Complutensian Publishing house, is a fantastic investigation work developed by the studies of Antonio Arnáiz Villena and Jorge Alonso Garci'a, one linguist and the other genetist. Both maintain in their book that these four towns have a common origin in the diáspora of a primitive people. Towards the North they gave rise to the Basques, towards the West to guanches and the East to the Egyptians. According to the authors, the alive usko-Mediterranean languages are the Basque and bereber, this last one very damaged by the influence of the Arab. They exist in addition Languages died coming from the same line like the Iberian-tarte'sico, the Etruscan, the linear one "a" cretense, guanche, Egyptian and the others of Near East, (hitite, eblite, elamite and sumerian). They maintain that genetically all the peoples that spoke these languages are related. The Greek people is not (in a lingüistic sense) and represents peoples arrived recently (after 2000 b.C.) to the zone . The other peoples belong to a older Mediterranean substrate.

    The race constructor of megalites

    The people of the South and Center of Portugal, as well as of the Extremadura neighbor (Spain), begin to the more important cultural phenomenon of European prehistory: the megalitism. The Portuguese prehistorians defend so early dates for the beginning of this phenomenon like 4800 b.C., being able to attribute to their Britain equivalent the one of 3800 b.C., sensibly more delayed. In any case, between 3500 and 3000 b.C. this cultural phenomenon knows an expansion generalized between the native peoples of the European Atlantic coast.

    The megalitism is a prehistoric cultural phenomenon consistent essentially in the construction of tombs of the type "dólmen", in whose interior it is successively buried the deceaseds of the group, separating carefully the bones from the previous deceaseds (collective interments). Dólmens can be simple or of runner and, often, been they have covered by a mount of accumulated earth raises that it testifies the effect of the erosion on the cupola of the old pyramid. In addition, within the megalític context, can also be counted other constructions of stone like "menhires", alignments, "crómlech" , etc. The more famous megalítical monument is without a doubt Stonehenge, prehistoric observatory of the south of England, the beginning of its construction is dated in the 3300 BC.

    The most extensive period of megalitism is located in the Iberian southwest, where includes approximately from 4800 to 1300 b.C., including/understanding the periods neolithic and calcolític. Towards 3800 b.C. arrives at Britain and the West of France, whereas between 3500 and 3000 b.C. its extended between practically all the native populations of the European Atlantic slope, until then devoid from a common nexus. One thinks that the deep-sea fishing, particularly the one of the codfish, could serve like transmission means.


    The constructors of megaliths as Stonehenge or Carnac were a people originary from the Iberian Peninsula. In this map they are observed approximately detailed main the routes of penetration by which the race of megaliths constructors giants original from the South of the Iberian Peninsula carried out, from the 3900 BC, the invasion of central Europe and Britain , after this first and significant invasive big wave, in the dawn of the 2400 BC, a new invasive big wave coming from the south of Spain, carried out by the descending people of this megaliths constructor race, called at the present time tartesso-argárico people or the "campaniforme" glass type people (bellshapeglass¿?), this people followed the passages of its ancestors penetrating and invading central europe, the vital space or original habitat of the Indo-European peoples (Germany-Poland), causing with it the migration towards the east and Southeast of the Indo-European peoples that in their displacement would invade and conquer innumerable cultures and territories. The Spanish people of the "campaniforme" glass invasion of central Europe took place ten centuries before the arrival of celtics to the Peninsula, whereas the construction race of megaliths penetrated in Europe from the Peninsula on the 4000 BC. We know that both peoples were original of the present Andalucia and south of Portugal, we can consider it like the same migration of a same people being carried out in two different stages of the History. Old texts speak to us of capable constructors and gold jewel creators , silver and enamels colored in necklaces, bracelets and sacred objects of refined decoration, of a culture very outpost with respect to their time in the context of their appearance, other texts speak of a town of giants whose king was called Atlas and lived in a city of doors of silver in a neighboring island of the ocean inhabited by blond giants that later would emigrate towards central Europe and Scandinavia..

    From 3000 b.C. (rather before, even), innovations in the funeral construction are observed in the Portuguese diffusing center and its important environs: the calls "artificial caves" (in truth pyramids) and "tholoi". Also a remarkable increase of the ultramarine commerce is observed, concerning amber of Scandinavia and márfil and egg rind of ostrich of Africa. In this period begins to notice the export of the megalitism to zones that cannot be considered purely Atlantic,as much of central Europe as of the western Mediterranean also. From 2700 b.C. appear fortified cities so much in the southwest as in the Iberian Southeast, forming therefore first and only civilizations (without writing) implied in the megalítical phenomenon: the cultures of Vila Nova and Los Millares.


    Map that shows an outline of the way followed by the old Atlantes settlers, although incomplete, since we can suppose, due to the presence of numerous "tholois" in Greece and Crete that the Atlantes culture also reached those lands . To see attached file 3.

    The old settlers of the Iberian Peninsula.

    In the Iberian Peninsula, in an approximated radius of 200 km around present Cadiz, we found the oldest known rests of megalítical works or pyramids constructed by the man, concretely the monumental set of "Cave of Menga" is a perfect sintesis between the culture or megalítich architecture and the one of pyramids, being in addition previous to any megalith or pyramid of non Iberian construction. Having this in account, we can affirm that the lost "megaliths constructors race " of which Coon spoke was original of the Peninsula and that this people in the set of its migrations extended Towards the North as towards the South, creating along the way the greater monumental sets and civilizations of the ancient times where it would give expression to his deep astronomical and architectonic knowledge. It´s of this mythical race, the Atlantes, from those who descended the tartessos, bereberes (blond), guanches, Libyan, Egyptian and Basque among other peoples, and will be this race of Atlantes the creator of great civilizations like the minoica (cretenses), Mayan or the Egyptian and of increilbles monuments like the one of Stonehenge.
    Last edited by Siegfried; Tuesday, October 5th, 2004 at 10:41 AM.

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    Post Re: The Atlantis.

    'Atlantis' is a Plato's fiction. The philosopher used this fable
    to describe the hypothetical 'perfect rule'. It is based on
    some egyptian myths, religious beliefs and evantually some real events (cataclysms and disasters).
    Nowhere Plato mentions or hints the physical appearance or race of the atlants,
    because he as a philosopher was interested in the metaphysical not in nordicism nor afrocentrism.
    Needless to say he never mentions aryans (he never heard of them), germans, celts, slavs etc.
    Of course everybody is free to speculate with his mediations, but hardly some wanna-bee will achieve the depth of his philosophical thought.

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    Post Re: The Atlantis.

    Quote Originally Posted by VioletOxygen
    'Atlantis' is a Plato's fiction. The philosopher used this fable
    to describe the hypothetical 'perfect rule'. It is based on
    some egyptian myths, religious beliefs and evantually some real events (cataclysms and disasters).
    Nowhere Plato mentions or hints the physical appearance or race of the atlants,
    because he as a philosopher was interested in the metaphysical not in nordicism nor afrocentrism.
    Needless to say he never mentions aryans (he never heard of them), germans, celts, slavs etc.
    Of course everybody is free to speculate with his mediations, but hardly some wanna-bee will achieve the depth of his philosophical thought.
    There is alot more to the Atlantis inquiry than Plato.

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    Post Re: The Atlantis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff
    There is alot more to the Atlantis inquiry than Plato.
    Which author mentions or even hints smth about it before Plato?
    And where exactly is the great civilization of atlantis? (i suppose jews destroyed
    the evidences of it. )

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    Post Re: The Atlantis.

    Quote Originally Posted by VioletOxygen
    'Atlantis' is a Plato's fiction. The philosopher used this fable
    to describe the hypothetical 'perfect rule'. It is based on
    some egyptian myths, religious beliefs and evantually some real events (cataclysms and disasters).
    Well the truth is that in myths, and in religious beliefs there is often more reality facts than one would believe at first.
    By the other way Plato was a wise interested in the ancient history and in the real facts also, so when he says that he´s transcribing the Solón words & knowledge about the historic fact of the Atlantis existence, I wouldn´t interpret his words in such metaphorical way.
    Everyone is free to think by himself and to do his own interpretations. Perhaps in the future we´ll be able to know if the arqueological remains that have been discovered were part of the Atlantis or not.
    Last edited by lahun-ok; Friday, October 8th, 2004 at 12:33 AM.

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    Post Re: The Atlantis.

    Greetings lahune-ok

    Hope your still reading these forums which I have just joined today because of you and some of your Atlantis research.

    Stay your path to destiny. The Atlanteans are very much alive and well as they were millenia ago. Plato is a man of utmost character and honesty as he was a valiant soldier also.

    Many people think that Plato made up the story of Atlantis and will be shocked to know that the truth is that Plato "Preserved" the legend through his Royal family bloodlines. Plato,was not,a liar or fantastical theorist.

    Please allow me to extend my warm greetings to a fellow Atlantean and that you may also join us in Atlantis Rising Forums.

    www.atlantisrising.com

    Here is a link to my website Tribes of Atlantis for your enjoyment.

    www.mts.net/~perasa

    Atlantis location;


    Alluvial Atlantis map.

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    Post Re: The Atlantis.

    Chalcidius facts as to the location of Atlantis.

    1) Largest Island
    2) "described" as being in extent to Libya and Asia. (Continental or Sub-Continental size)
    3) in the Atlantic Ocean
    4) before the Pillars of Hercules
    5) before the islands in front of the Pillars of Hercules
    6) controlled all the Atlantic islands and shared control with those islands (Government Empire)
    7) provisions and supplies could fail from the long trip past the Pillars of Hercules. (SeaWarriors would not be prepared for such a long voyage,indicative not near the Straites of Gibraltar )
    8) islands in front of the Pillars disappeared during voyage to Atlantis.
    9) islands in front of Pillars formed a curved surface such as Old Gades along the Spanish coastline
    10) past a small fertile island (Erythraea >Madeira/Spartel or possibly Ormonde Seamount as Erythraea).
    11) immeasurable Sea indicative of vast Atlantic Ocean.
    12) Straites of Gibraltar damaged
    13) Augustus Sea described as Harbour inside of the Straites.
    14)Atlanteans came through the straites suddenly into the med from the Atlantic Ocean.
    15) Atlanteas controlled Libya to Egypt and Europe to Italy.
    16) Egyptians could account for 9000 years of History
    17) Attica formed 1000 years before the advent of known agriculture(8000.bC)
    18) Lower Egypt formed around 8000.bC.
    19) Atlantean warriors seemed unbeatable (Hordes)
    20) Pelasgian Tribes last standing greatest honor of War.
    21) Legend revealed to Solon in time of Pharaoh Amasis (570.bC) by Egyptian Priest.

    And many other points as we know of the Atlantis legend.

    Chalcidius thread in AR.
    http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi...1;t=001130;p=1

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