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Thread: Jew vs. Israelite. What, You Mean There Is a Distinction?

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    Let's have some more marks of Israel shall we?
    Israel to have a new language. Isa. 28:11 (The Bible, by means of which God speaks now to Israel, is English not Hebrew).
    Isaiah 28:11 ​​ For with stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to this people.
    1Corinthians 14:21 ​​ In the law it is written, In other tongues and with other lips will I speak unto this people; and not even in that manner will they hear Me, saith Yahweh.
    English comes from Hebrew. See slideshow menu.
    The Jews language is not Hebrew, it is Yiddish, which is a bastardized version of the language of our ancestors.


    Israel to be like a Lion. ​​ Num 23:24, 24:9; Deut 33:20; Prov 28:1; Mic 5:8
    Numbers 23:24 ​​ Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain.
    Genesis 49:9 ​​ Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
    24:9​​ He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall stir him up? Blessed he that blesseth you, and cursed is he that curseth thee.

    Deuteronomy 33:20​ And of Gad he said, Blessed be he that enlargeth Gad: he dwelleth as a lion, and teareth the arm with the crown of the head.

    Proverbs 28:1 ​​ The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.

    Micah 5:8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the nations in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

    The symbol of Judah is the lion
    The Jews have symbols of serpents, six pointed star of Molech, and half man half beast pagan gods.Israel to remain in ignorance of her special relationship to God until the great revealing comes. ​​ Ezek 39:7,22,28Israel to lose all trace of her lineage. Isa. 42:16-19; Hos. 1:9,10, 2:6,17; Rom. 11:25.

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    Danes and Jutes: Dan and Judah-Dan

    Concerning Dan in the Bible: "Gilead abode beyond Jordan: and why did Dan remain in ships? Asher continued on the sea shore, and abode in his breaches." Judges 5:16

    To appreciate this alleged connection one has to consider that in ancient Hebrew vowels were absent, hence names containing Din, Den, Dun or Don such as Scan-DiN-avia and Sar-DoN-ia may be attributed to Dan. Other exmples might include Mace-DoN-ia, E-DiN-burough, DuN-kirk, Aber-DeeN, DoN-egal, Lon-DoN, the list of potential "Dan" names goes on.

    http://redqueenwhitequeen.com/wordpress/tribe-of-dan/
    Danes and Jutes: Dan and Judah-Dan

    By Mikkel Stjernholm Kragh

    The modern Danish people (Danskere) is made up of the proper Danes (Daner) on the numerous islands, and the Jutes (Jyder) on the Jutland peninsula, if recent immigrants, etc., are ignored. The original Danes were a Nordic tribe, while the original Jutes were a Germanic tribe. The Danes are of Dan, and the Jutes are of Judah and Dan.

    The deportation of Israel to areas south of the Caucasus

    The three northern tribes of Israel – Dan, Asher, and Naphtali – were among the first of the Israelite tribes to be deported out of the land of Canaan, because the invaders who attacked and deported the Israelite tribes – the Assyrians and Babylonians – invaded the land of Canaan from the north. From 734 to 732 BC Tiglath-Pileser III King of Assyria invaded and conquered the northern, eastern, and western parts of the 10 tribed northern kingdom of Israel, as the Holy Scriptures record:

    ”In the days of Pekah king of Israel came Tiglath-pileser king of Assyria, and took Ijon, and Abel-beth-maachah, and Janoah, and Kedesh, and Hazor, and Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naphtali, and carried them captive to Assyria.” (2 Kings 15:29)

    In 724 BC Salmaneser V King of Assyria attacked Samaria, the capital of the northern 10 tribed kingdom of Israel, and in 721 BC his successor, Sargon II, took Samaria, and the rest of the 10 tribes of Israel were deported to areas south of the Caucasus mountains and south of the Caspian Sea, as the Holy Scriptures record:

    ”In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.” (2 Kings 17:6)

    These areas are almost identical to the areas where the oldest Norse chronicles state that the ancestors of the Nordic and Germanic tribes came from, before they trekked over Eastern Europe to Northern Europe.

    The Aser and Vaner homeland south and north of the Caucasus


    The Icelandic chief and historian Snorre Sturlasson (1179-1241) wrote Heimskringla (app. 1230), of which the first part is called the Ynglinge Saga, wherein Sturlasson describes the homeland of the Nordic and Germanic tribes as the areas south and north of the Caucasus mountains. They were divided into two groups, Aser and Vaner, which obviously are the names of Asher and Dan, two of the Israelite tribes in the camp of Dan.

    Snorre Sturlasson describes the homeland of the Vaner, which was the lost Israelite tribe of Dan:

    “On the south side of the mountains which lie outside of all inhabited lands runs a river through Swithiod, which is properly called by the name of Tanais, but was formerly called Tanaquisl, or Vanaquisl, and which falls into the Black Sea. The country of the people on the Vanaquisl was called Vanaland, or Vanaheim; and the river separates the three parts of the world, of which the eastermost part is called Asia, and the westermost Europe.” (Snorre Sturlasson: Ynglinge Saga pt. 1)

    The river Tanakvisl/Vanakvisl/Tanais must be the river Don, because its ancient Greek name was Tanaïs. In the Old Testament, the Danites named places after their ancestor Dan (Judges 18:12, 29), and Don also carries the name Dan.

    The Vaner lived adjacent to the Aser, whose chief was Odin:

    ”The country east of the Tanaquisl in Asia was called Asaland, or Asaheim, and the chief city in that land was called Asgaard. In that city was a chief called Odin, and it was a great place for sacrifice. It was the custom there that twelve temple priests should both direct the sacrifices, and also judge the people. They were called Diar, or Drotner, and all the people served and obeyed them. Odin was a great and very far-travelled warrior, who conquered many kingdoms, and so successful was he that in every battle the victory was on his side.” (Snorre Sturlasson: Ynglinge Saga pt. 2)

    The lost tribes of Israel’s trek from the Middle East to Northern Europe

    After a war between the Aser and Vaner, which ended without anyone of them prevailing, Odin led the tribes to Northern Europe:

    ”There goes a great mountain barrier from north-east to south-west, which divides the Greater Swithiod from other kingdoms. South of this mountain ridge it is not far to Turkland, where Odin had great possessions. In those times the Roman chiefs went wide around in the world, subduing to themselves all people; and on this account many chiefs fled from their domains. But Odin having foreknowledge, and magic-sight, knew that his posterity would come to settle and dwell in the northern half of the world. He therefore set his brothers Ve and Vilje over Asgaard; and he himself, with all the gods and a great many other people, wandered out, first westward to Gardarike [Russia], and then south to Saxland [Saxony]. He had many sons; and after having subdued an extensive kingdom in Saxland, he set his sons to rule the country. He himself went northwards to the [Baltic] sea, and took up his abode in an island which is called Odin’s Island [Odense] on Funen.” (Snorre Sturlasson: Ynglinge Saga pt. 5, my brackets)

    The account of this trek is confirmed by important historians such as Peter Friderich Suhm (Denmark, 1728-1798) and Olof Rudbeck the Elder (Sweden, 1630-1702). Suhm and Rudbeck did not trace our origins all the way back to the Israelites, but Suhm did write - speaking of the Nordic peoples - that

    “the ancestors of us, the Germans, and the Celts lived together in Asia Minor” (P.F. Suhm: Om Odin og den Hedniske Gudelære og Gudstieneste udi Norden (1771), p. 140-141)

    The Norwegian explorer Thor Heyerdahl also confirmed Snorre Sturlasson’s account in 2002, when he published Jakten på Odin (The Search for Odin), wherein Heyerdahl specifically wrote that the ancestors of the Norsemen came from Azerbaijan.

    The many Odins


    There were several Odins. Suhm writes of at least three different Odins. Odin was most likely not a name, but a title, which meant something like “lord, chief, no. one or prime minister”.

    In Russian, Odin means “one”. I have asked a Russian lady about this, and she confirmed it.

    The lost tribes of Israel are divided in two groups

    When the lost tribes, led by Odin, came to the Baltic Sea, they divided themselves into two groups. One group went north across the Baltic Sea and became the ancestors of the Nordic tribes, such as the Danes (Daner), Swedes (Svear), Geats (Götar), and Norwegians. The other group went west across what today is Poland and became the ancestors of the Germanic tribes.

    Suhm thus writes that it is

    “reasonable that our fathers have come here via Russia and the eastern part of Poland. When they came to the Baltic Sea and present-day Livonia, they divided themselves into two great multitudes. The one went north, and our fathers descend from them, and the other went west, and became the ancestors of many German peoples” (P.F. Suhm: Historie af Danmark, Vol. 1 (1782), p. 4-5)

    Denmark called Vanaheim

    After the tribes had arrived in Northern Europe, Vanaheim - the homeland of the Vaner - was still a geographical place. Suhm mentions a Swedish King Svedger in the 1st century AD who went to Vanaheim and married a Vaner woman, and then continued to Germany, the Greater Svithjod and Gothheim, to search for the old Odin, who had been missing for five years. (P.F. Suhm: Om Odin og den Hedniske Gudelære og Gudstieneste udi Norden (1771), p. 99)

    From the context, it seems that by Vanaheim is meant Denmark.

    The original Danes and Jutes


    The Gothic historian Jordanes writes in De origine actibusque getarum (The origin and deeds of the Goths, 551 AD) that the Danes came out of the Swedes. (The original Swedes and the Geats later formed Sweden.) The Danes were of the tribe of Dan, who came to the Scandinavian peninsula along with the other tribes of Bilhah and Zilpah, Naphtali, Asher, and Gad.

    The original Jutes, on the other hand, were of the tribe of Judah, who along with other tribes of Leah made up the Germanic tribes that settled on the European continent and the Jutland peninsula.


    Above: Denmark in the Middle Ages. The two eastern provinces Blekinge and Bornholm are inserted in the upper right corner. (From A. Fabricius: Illustreret Danmarkshistorie for Folket Vol. 1 (1914), p. 539)

    Origin of the nation of Denmark

    Suhm writes that around 235 AD Dan Mikillati, king of the Danes in Scania and Halland, was also crowned as king of the islands Zealand, Funen, Møn, Falster, and Lolland. When the Jutes and the Angles were invaded by the Saxons, Dan Mikillati succesfully helped them, and for this the Jutes and the Angles also crowned him as king in Viborg in Jutland (P.F. Suhm: Historie af Danmark (1782), p. 103-112).

    Denmark, as we know it today, was thus united, even though the three parts – Scania Land, the isles, and Jutland – kept their separate laws. (The four provinces Scania, Halland, Blekinge, and Bornholm were collectively called Scania Land (Terra Scaniæ).)

    The name Danmark (Denmark)

    Danmark – the Danish name for Denmark - means “the Danes’ borderland”, because “mark” meant borderland. Danmark was originally the name for Dan Mikillati’s kingdom in Scania and Halland, but eventually became the name of the entire kingdom.

    The Danish historiographer Iver Nielsen Hertzholm (1635-1693) wrote that the Danes’ and Denmark’s name comes “from the Hebrew word Dan: meaning to judge, investigate, and believes that we are called so because of our wisdom” (according to P.F. Suhm: Critisk Historie af Danmark (1774), p. 144).

    In the days of the Old Testament, the tribe of Dan had a habit of naming places after their father Dan, the son of Israel. Dan originally lived in a territory next to Ephraim, Benjamin, Judah and the Philistines. In the early 12th century 600 Danites sought a new territory in the north of Canaan, where there lived Phoenicians, next to Naphtali and the half tribe of Manasseh in Bashan. On their way, they camped in a place in Judah, which the Danites called Mahaneh-dan, meaning “Camp of Dan”:

    “And there went from thence of the family of the Danites, out of Zorah and out of Eshtaol, six hundred men appointed with weapons of war. And they went up and pitched in Kirjath-jearim, in Judah: wherefore they called that place Mahaneh-dan unto this day: behold, it is behind Kirjath-jearim.”
    (Judges 18:11-12)

    After they had smitten the peaceful Phoenicians of Laish with the sword and burned the city, they called the new city Dan:

    “And they built a city, and dwelt therein. And they called the name of the city Dan, after the name of Dan their father, who was born unto Israel: howbeit the name of the city was Laish at the first.” (Judges 18:28-29)

    When the tribe of Dan, called Vaner and Taner, trekked across Eastern Europe, they likewise seem to have named several major rivers after themselves. The river Don, by the ancient Norsemen called Tanakvisl and Vanakvisl, and by the ancient Greeks called Tanaïs, has already been mentioned. Other major East European rivers with the prefix D-n are: Donets, a tributary to Don. Dnieper, which by late Greek and Roman authors was called Danapris and Danaper respectively. Dniestr, which by the Romans and Jordanes (6th century AD) was called Danastris and Danastus. The Danube, which in German, Danish, and other languages is called Donau.

    In 1219 King Valdemar II of Denmark led a succesfull crusade in Estonia to convert the Estonians to the Christian faith. Besides King Valdemar and the Danish army, the Crusaders also included Archbishop Sunesen of Denmark, Bishop Theodorik of Estonia, a German army, and a Slavonic Sorb army. The Crusaders encamped at Lyndanisse and began to build a castle which they called Dane Castle (Castrum Danorum), which became the city Tallinn, which in Estonian means Dane City, and today is the capital of Estonia. (It was at the battle of Lyndanisse that a flag – which probably had belonged to some of the Crusaders and had gotten hurled up in the air - fell down from the sky, and became Dannebrog, the Danish flag.)

    Today Danes likewise have a habit of using the name Dan in their firms. If you type in “Dan” in the Danish online yellow pages (see here), there comes out a long list of firms, such as:


    Above: Cable tubes made by Dantex.

    Dantex – they make cable tubes and other tubes

    Dan-Ejendomme – they rent out apartments

    Dan-Glas – there are several firms by this name, they are into car windows

    Dan-Tæk – they thatch roofs (with straws)

    Rota-Dan – they make different kinds of wheels

    Dan-Color – they produce different kinds of paints

    Dan Dryer – they produce dryers for bathrooms

    Dan-markering – they make road signs and other forms of road markings

    DanTrailers - they make trailers for cars


    Above: a trailer from DanTrailers

    Dan Delektron – they produce lightning conductors

    Nor-Dan Bus – a Norwegian-Danish bus company

    Dan Cargo – a leading Nordic firm within international transport and third-party logistics

    Dan-cool – they make vehicles with refrigerators and freezers (for butchers, for example)

    Dan-Labels – they make labels

    Dan Stål – there are numerous firms by this name that makes products with steel and other metals


    Advodan - a firm of lawyers (advocates)

    Baby Dan – they develop, produce, and sell safety equipment for children age 0-5

    Dan Auto Parts – they sell auto parts

    Danfoss – they make thermostates and other products

    Dan Group Alarm – they set up alarms


    Above: a property with alarms from Dan Group Alarm

    The Jutes

    The Jutes were originally a Germanic tribe which later became Nordic. (See P.F. Suhm: Historie af Danmark, Vol. 1 (1782), p. 26 and 109, and P.F. Suhm: Critisk Historie af Danmark, Vol. 1 (1774), p. 172-173, and here.) The Jutes came to Jutland from Germany, while the Danes came to the isles from the Scandinavian peninsula. The Angles and the Saxons, two other Germanic tribes, settled in the southern parts of the Jutland peninsula.

    Today the descendants of the ancient Germanic tribes are dispersed throughout both Germanic speaking and non-Germanic speaking peoples, though. The following European nations are in the following percentages genetically descended from the ancient Germanic tribes:

    Germany: 25% Germanic, 45% Celtic, 20% Slavonic, 10% Jewish

    Austria: 35% Germanic, 30% Slavonic, 10% Finno-Ugric, 10% Phoenician, 10% Jewish, 5% Celtic

    Switzerland: 30% Germanic, 55% Celtic, 10% Jewish, 5% Slavonic

    Netherlands: 40% Germanic, 50% Celtic, 10% Viking

    Belgium: 20% Germanic, 80% Celtic

    UK: 13% Germanic, 75% Celtic, 12% Viking

    France: 20% Germanic, 70% Celtic, 10% Phoenician

    Czech Republic: 50% Germanic, 42% Slavonic, 8% Jewish

    Spain: 15% Germanic, 40% Celtic, 30% Iberian, 7% Phoenician, 7% “special case” (?), 1% Arab

    Sweden and Norway: 12% Germanic, 88% Viking

    Denmark: 40% Germanic, 60% Viking

    (See the entire list here.)

    When Denmark today genetically is 60% similar to the ancient Vikings and 40% similar to the ancient Germanic tribes, the Israelite tribe of Dan must make up the 60% Viking part and the Judah-Jutes must make up the 40% Germanic part.

    Jutes invade England

    Even though the Jutes had become a part of Denmark under King Dan Mikillati app. 235 AD, Jutland remained the apple of discord between Danes and Saxons, and to such an extent that the Jutes often were reckoned as belonging to the latter rather than the former. (P.F. Suhm: Historie af Danmark, Vol. 1 (1782), p. 109)

    In the 5th century AD, when the earth in Jutland was exhausted and could not support the population, the Jutes invaded England along with the Angles and the Saxons. In these invasion are not mentioned any Danes. The Danes and the Norwegians only invaded the British Isles in the later Viking Era (8th to 11th century).

    The tribe of Dan in the book of Revelation


    The tribe of Dan’s future is shrouded in mystery.

    The tribe of Dan is, as the only tribe of Israel, not among the sealed 144,000 male Israelites(Rev. 7:4-8) that are going to reign with the Lamb and God. Revelation does simply not state why the tribe of Dan is not among the 144,000.

    The 144,000 are the co-rulers and are compared with the fruitsfruits (Rev. 14:4). The firstfruits was a small ceremonial offering at Pentecost (Ex. 34:22, Lev. 23:15-17). All the inhabitants of the coming Kingdom of God are, on the other hand, compared with the normal harvest (Luke 10:2). The normal harvest takes place in the autumn, and is immensely larger than the firstfruits in size.

    That the tribe of Dan is not among the 144,000 does therefore not mean that the tribe of Dan is going to perish.

    May 2009

    Bibliography

    Authorized King James Version of the Bible

    Adam Fabricius: Illustreret Danmarkshistorie for Folket, Vol. 1 (Copenhagen and Oslo: Gyldendalske Boghandel, Nordisk Forlag, 1914)

    Snorri Sturlasson: Heimskringla or the Chronicles of the Kings of Norway translated by Samuel Laing (London, 1844) Mikkel Stjernholm Kragh has made a few corrections to the English translation. (Online version here.)

    Peter Friderich Suhm: Critisk Historie af Danmark, udi den Hedenske Tid, fra Odin til Gorm den Gamle, Vol. 1(Critical History of Denmark, out in the Heathen Times, from Odin until Gorm the Old)(Copenhagen: Brødrene Johann Christian & Georg Christopher Berling, 1774) (Online here.)

    Peter Friderich Suhm: Historie af Danmark, Vol. 1 (Copenhagen: Brødrene Berling, 1782) (Online here.)

    Peter Friderich Suhm: Om Odin og den Hedniske Gudelære og Gudstieneste udi Norden (Copenhagen: Brødrene Berling, 1771)
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    First Semitic languages have no relation with Indo-European languages.
    This is true and a very good point which warrants investigation. I might add that it is plausible that they picked up another language in their exile and migration. But the smoking gun will need to be found.

    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    Now there is also the problem that circumcision was not a common practice among Indo-Europeans and their decedents.
    This is also true but I would postulate that they were not exiled because they kept the statutes. I must say I am kind of glad about this one myself... How shall I say I have grown attached...
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    First Semitic languages have no relation with Indo-European languages. have as far as I know no relation with Indo-European languages. And that has to be made in order to link Indo-Europeans with Israelites. The later being a Semitic people who speak an Afroasiatic language. So on basis of that the claim that the Indo-Europeans are the decedents of exiled Israelites is a bit weak.
    Quote Originally Posted by Langeraat View Post
    This is true and a very good point which warrants investigation. I might add that it is plausible that they picked up another language in their exile and migration. But the smoking gun will need to be found.

    Could not find a smoking gun so a firing one will have to do.

    Linguistic Evidence in Europe

    From the Old Testament and other historical sources such as the annals of the Assyrian kings, we learn that the northern kingdom, after years of war and deportation, fell to Assyrian invaders in 721 B.C. Jeremiah emphasized the north countries as being these Israelites’ eventual destination (see Jer. 3:12–18; Jer. 16:14–16; Jer. 23:7–8) and implied a western route (see Jer. 18:17; Hosea 12:1). Thus, a natural place to look for what befell those remnants is to study the countries north and west of the Middle East.

    It is of interest, therefore, to learn that in Europe, the centuries following 700 B.C. were marked by tremendous outside influence, and language was profoundly affected. During the period between 700 and 400 B.C., numerous languages in Europe underwent major pronunciation changes and absorbed new vocabulary.2 This was particularly true of the Celtic languages, which were originally spoken throughout Europe (700–300 B.C.) but gradually became more concentrated in western Europe and Britain, and of the Germanic languages, which were spoken in central and northern Europe and Scandinavia and eventually in England. The gradual evolving of the sounds that make up words in a language, particularly when two languages merge, is known by linguists as a sound shift. The well-known pronunciation changes of the period of time between 700 and 400 B.C. have been called the Germanic Sound Shift, because they were the most pronounced and systematic in the Germanic languages, which include English, Dutch, German, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, and Icelandic.3 Also during this same time period, the total vocabulary in the Germanic languages increased by as much as one-third.4

    Linguists have long pondered what caused this sound shift and the increase in vocabulary.5 One theory is that the technologically advanced peoples who introduced iron to Europe (seventh century B.C. in Austria; sixth century B.C. in Sweden) also influenced the language changes. Linguistic research supports this idea, as well as the idea that these advanced peoples came from the Middle East, where iron was in use. The research shows that the changes in language resulted from an influx of Hebrew-speaking people into Europe, particularly into the Germanic- and Celtic-speaking areas.
    The Germanic Sound Shift

    Most of the languages of Europe belong to the Indo-European family of languages; that is, they are part of the linguistically linked group of languages spoken in Europe and spreading as far east as Iran and India. For many years, the peculiarities in the Germanic languages kept linguists from recognizing that the Germanic languages belonged to the Indo-European group. However, early in the nineteenth century, two linguists—Rasmus Rask from Denmark (1818) and Jakob Grimm from Germany (1819–22)—showed that the Germanic languages were indeed part of the Indo-European family but that their differences in pronunciation were caused by a systematic shift in the sound of two groups of consonants—[p, t, k] and [b, d, g].6

    At the time of the sound shift, the pronunciation of these six consonants was changed to [ph, th, kh] and [bh, dh, gh], respectively. These new sounds were usually represented in writing by the letters f, th, h (x or ch) and b (v), d (th), g (gh). For example, by applying the rules of the sound shift to the Indo-European te puk—replacing the t, p, and k with th, f, and x—we recognize the English words the fox. Now the relationship between the Indo-European word pater and the English word father becomes more recognizable.

    Linguists generally agree that these changes began taking place sometime after 700 B.C., and that the influence causing the sound shift continued to affect the Germanic dialects for several centuries, at least until 400 B.C. and possibly as late as the Christian Era.7

    Unfortunately, scholars have not been able to agree upon what caused these changes or where the original homeland of the peoples may have been. Scholars have traced them to the Black Sea area, and to the Caucasus Mountains, but research did not trace them beyond there, because the scholars did not know whether that had been the people’s first homeland or they had come from the east or south of that point. My research took me to the Middle East, and it was there that I found a likely cause for the sound shift—the Hebrew language.


    A Comparison of Hebrew and Germanic

    The case for a Hebrew influence on Germanic is further strengthened by a close comparison of the two languages, and particularly of the changes that developed in Germanic following the Assyrian captivity of Israel. The changes fall generally into three categories: pronunciation, grammar, and vocabulary.

    1. Pronunciation. In addition to the similar sound shifts just described, there were other sounds common to both Hebrew and Germanic that did not generally appear in the Indo-European languages. For example, when Hebrew and Germanic consonants appeared between vowels, they normally doubled if the preceding vowel was short. This doubling of consonants, referred to as gemination, became a characteristic feature of Germanic but not of other Indo-European languages. In this way, Indo-European media became Old English middel and modern English middle.

    Almost half of the Hebrew verb conjugations required doubling the consonant and substituting a shortened vowel preceding the consonant. Compare Hebrew shabar (“to break”) and the related Hebrew form shibber (“to shatter”). Likewise, almost half of the Germanic verbs doubled the middle consonant and substituted a shortened preceding vowel: Indo-European sad- and bad- became settan (“set”) and biddan (“bid”) in Old English.9

    2. Grammar. At the time of the Germanic Sound Shift, the Germanic dialects experienced a sharp reduction in their number of grammatical cases, making Germanic more like Hebrew. As in English, the case (or form) of a noun, pronoun, or adjective in a Germanic language indicated its grammatical relation to other words in a sentence. At the time of the Germanic Sound Shift, the Germanic dialects immediately reduced the number of possible cases for a word from eight to four (as in modern German) and eventually to three (as in English, Spanish, and French). These were the same three cases (with possible remnants of a fourth) that Hebrew used before the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities—nominative case (indicating a word is the subject of a sentence), accusative case (indicating a word is the object of a verb or preposition), and genitive case (used to indicate a word in the possessive form).10

    Indo-European had six verb tenses. Hebrew, on the other hand, contained only two tenses (or aspects), dealing with actions either completed or not completed. Germanic, likewise, reduced its number of tenses to two—past and present. The other tenses in modern Germanic languages have developed out of combinations of these two original tenses.

    Verb forms in the two language groups also contain similarities. The Hebrew verb kom, kam, kum, yikom (“to arise, come forth”), for example, compares favorably with modern English come and came, Old English cuman, and German kommen, kam, gekommen (“to come forth, arrive, arise”).11

    3. Vocabulary. Perhaps the most convincing similarity between Hebrew and Germanic lies in their shared vocabularies. Linguists recognize that about one-third of all Germanic vocabulary is not Indo-European in origin.12 These words can be traced back to the Proto-Germanic period of 700–100 B.C., but not beyond. Significantly, these are the words that compare favorably in both form and meaning with Hebrew vocabulary. Once a formula was developed for comparing Germanic and Hebrew vocabulary, the number of similar words identifiable in both languages quickly reached into the thousands.

    According to this formula, words brought into Germanic after 700 B.C. had a tendency to modify their spelling in three ways:

    First, in most Germanic dialects, the words changed in spelling according to the sound shift. Hebrew, on the other hand, changed only in pronunciation; spelling remained the same. For example, Hebrew parah (“to bear oneself along swiftly, travel”) remained parah when written, but was pronounced [fara] if it was preceded by a closely associated long vowel. With that in mind, it is easy to recognize the same word in Old Norse and Old Frisian (a dialect in the Netherlands): fara (“to travel, move swiftly”).

    Second, the vowels in the initial syllables were frequently dropped in written Germanic forms because Hebrew words usually carried the accent on the last syllable. Compare Hebrew daraq and English drag. Occasionally, if the initial consonant was weak, the entire syllable dropped out, as in Hebrew walad (“male offspring, son”) and English lad, and in Hebrew nafal (“to fall”) and English fall.

    Third, Hebrew used a tonal accent (a vocal emphasis featuring a tone or sound in part of a word) rather than a stress accent (a vocal emphasis featuring increased volume in speaking part of a word), but this changed to a stress accent in the Germanic dialects. However, the effects of the Hebrew tonal accent are evident in Germanic. The Hebrew tone, which usually appeared in the final syllable, was often represented in written Germanic by one of four tonal letters—l, m, n, or r. Compare Hebrew satat (“to place, found, base, begin”) with English start (r represents the Hebrew tone), and Hebrew parak (“to be free, to liberate”) with English frank (“free; free speech”—in which p was shifted to f, the unaccented a was deleted, and n was added for the Hebrew tone).

    https://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/02/t...rsion?lang=eng
    I am sorry if this is ruining peoples preferred perception of their origins but I will rather share this and be proven wrong than not share it and never test the theory and never know for myself. If there was ever a time and place to test this it would be here on Skadi.



    Rev 3:9 "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    The moment I saw this thread I knew that the trolls would be out on this one.
    I just proves that old saying. "You get flack when you are over the target."
    Same here................
    This is the reason I felt the need to leave the discussions.
    I can't stand trolls that are out to outmaneuver you with nonsense.
    Hang in there, friend.

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    If what I have written about the modern jew is true it would put an interesting spin on this verse:

    Deut 23:2 "A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord."
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuotans Krieger View Post
    Discredited British Israelite/Christian Identity codswallop. I suggest that you revisit your DNA studies.
    Genetics would seem to disprove any connection between Israelites and Europeans - Germanics, Celts, Basques, Slavs, etc.. But what we are really looking at is a genetic connection between Jews & modern day Europeans. Do the Jews have a biological connection to the Israelites?

    One of the things that bothers me about the Old Testament is the time frame. I think it could be off by thousands of years. Also much of it is (in my opinion & I know some of you disagree) an allegory. Another is population movements over the eons. We have seen it in recorded history where certain territories have been completely transform racially & ethnically. The Byzantine Empire during the late middle ages is a good example or the Hispanicization of California during my lifetime. There is also the appropriation of cultural & ethnic identities. "Hispanic" or "Latino" in the Western Hemisphere, has nothing to do with Spain or Rome. All-American use to mean Nordish now it is being transformed into something tawny skinned with frizzy hair. I've come across Negroes who refer to themselves as French or English. So I wouldn't put it pass the people we call Jews to have appropriated, and Semiticized, the culture & history of the people known anciently as Israelites.

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    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Nordic/British/European/Aryan Israelism or whatever you want to call it, made basically no sense already in the 18th/19th century when it was cooked up, it made even less sense when physical anthropology, archaeology and linguistics were done in earnest, but in times of ancient and modern DNA testing it's nothing short of mental retardism.

    How much does someone have to hate his ancestors to convince himself against all available evidence, that he's descended from wandering Israelites that arrived in Europe in the last few centuries BC? The only "evidence" for this appear to be ridiculous folk etymologies, that find "relationships" between some tribe names in a modern Bible, basically the translation of a translation of a translation of some Hebrew text and various Germanic tribe names, which themselves are mostly re-translations from Latin names for Germanic tribes.

    There certainly isn't a single shred of evidence in physical anthropology, archaeology, linguistics or genetics for any such event. And no, some random blogs by maniacs with the mentioned folk etymologies don't count for evidence.
    As for genetics, have a look at a thread I made in August and references the vast majority of ancient DNA testing made up to that point(a few more recent ones are missing):
    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)

    Especially have a look at this study: Continuity and Admixture in the Last Five Millennia of Levantine History from Ancient Canaanite and Present-Day Lebanese Genome Sequences

    The Canaanites inhabited the Levant region during the Bronze Age and established a culture that became influential in the Near East and beyond. However, the Canaanites, unlike most other ancient Near Easterners of this period, left few surviving textual records and thus their origin and relationship to ancient and present-day populations remain unclear. In this study, we sequenced five whole genomes from ∼3,700-year-old individuals from the city of Sidon, a major Canaanite city-state on the Eastern Mediterranean coast. We also sequenced the genomes of 99 individuals from present-day Lebanon to catalog modern Levantine genetic diversity. We find that a Bronze Age Canaanite-related ancestry was widespread in the region, shared among urban populations inhabiting the coast (Sidon) and inland populations (Jordan) who likely lived in farming societies or were pastoral nomads.
    This Canaanite-related ancestry derived from mixture between local Neolithic populations and eastern migrants genetically related to Chalcolithic Iranians. We estimate, using linkage-disequilibrium decay patterns, that admixture occurred 6,600–3,550 years ago, coinciding with recorded massive population movements in Mesopotamia during the mid-Holocene. We show that present-day Lebanese derive most of their ancestry from a Canaanite-related population, which therefore implies substantial genetic continuity in the Levant since at least the Bronze Age. In addition, we find Eurasian ancestry in the Lebanese not present in Bronze Age or earlier Levantines. We estimate that this Eurasian ancestry arrived in the Levant around 3,750–2,170 years ago during a period of successive conquests by distant populations.
    So, if anything, modern Lebanese and other populations in the Levant, have a slight admixture that originated from the Indo-Europeans living on the Steppe. In all likelihood this came by proxy in very admixed form via Assyrians, Hittites, Persians, Greeks, Crusaders and European slaves. But there was no admixture in the other direction into Europe.

    This is a PCA(simplified, a "autosomal genetic map") from said study:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Coloured signs are ancient populations, grey dots are modern day populations(see Figure S6/Page 8 in the supplemental information).

    Bronze Age Levant are essentially ancient Israelites and related populations. In the area between Bronze Age Levant, Neolithic Levant, Neolithic Anatolia, Chalcolithic Anatolia and the right-most red triangle of Bronze Age Europe, you find various modern Jewish populations.
    Modern central-northern Europeans are the grey dots left of "Bronze Age Europe", slightly closer to the "European hunter-gatherers", far from either modern or ancient Jews/Levantines.

    Conclusion:
    The populations closest to ancient Canaanites/Israelites are modern day Lebanese, Jordanians and Palestinians.
    Modern Jews are close but slightly admixed with (southeastern) European populations.
    Ancient and modern Germanics(and most other Europeans) are a threefold mixture of Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, Neolithic Farmers and Indo-European Steppe peoples, that has been present in Europe since the Late Neolithic/Early Bronze Age.

    Unless you believe a population, genetically identical to that mixture, migrated (actually literally teleported) into ancient Israel without mixing with anyone on the way, shed their Indo-European culture for a totally foreign one but didn't mix with anyone in Israel either, then was deported into the Babylonian Exile, somehow again didn't mix with anyone there during a few centuries of stay, but then, a few years before 0 BC, migrated over the Caucasus onto the Steppe, by that time populated by a genetically quite different population, with which it, naturally didn't mix, magically re-acquired Indo-European culture and then moved into Scandinavia, I don't see how any of that Nordic Israelite gibberish is supposed to work.
    If anyone actually believes that, I strongly recommend a straightjacket.
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Conclusion:
    The populations closest to ancient Canaanites/Israelites are modern day Lebanese, Jordanians and Palestinians.
    Modern Jews are close but slightly admixed with (southeastern) European populations.
    Ancient and modern Germanics(and most other Europeans) are a threefold mixture of Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, Neolithic Farmers and Indo-European Steppe peoples, that has been present in Europe since the Late Neolithic/Early Bronze Age.



    Excellent post.

    British/Aryan Israelites or "Christian Identity" is a nice fantasy, but that's all it is, a fantasy. And a fallacy.

    Besides, I don't want to descend from that nutcase Abraham.


    I'm happy honoring my real ancestors.

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