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Thread: Ignorance and Greed: Trumpís War on the Environment

  1. #11
    Sees all, knows all Chlodovech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.K.
    "Christianity is dead"? I am not sure that the American posters would necessarily agree with you. The USA is the ONLY 'western' country where Christianity is thriving (it's a nice little capitalist enterprise).
    Then they're wrong. Christianity in America is in complete shambles, an utter travesty, pure idolatry. Protestantism and Catholicism alike. And it's no secret to faithful Americans. The rest think that when they go/donate to a church ("accept Christ in their heart as their lord and saviour"), they henceforth got Jesus blessing to sin all they want. These people are absolutely clueless - and think Christianity is whatever they want it to be, a blanco cheque - and it's all about being nice ( ), inclusivity, saving the planet and this type of faggotry. If anyone can watch that video to the end - congratulations - I tried three times but couldn't. What remains of Anglo-American Christians shall be completely wiped off the map in the time space of a generation, two at most. Calling christianity in America a capitalist enterprise is not exactly an argument in favor of the point you try to make, I'd say.

    Quote Originally Posted by W.K.
    Indeed Christian Nationalism is a potent force in the USA
    It has not been a potent force for decades - not even the civic nationalist version of Christian nationalism can be called a dominant stream within just the Republican party. You have a dated view of the U.S.A. in my opinion. Yes, Bush and Trump both still paid some lip service to Christian patriotism - credible or meaningful it is not. American Christianity is a house of cards awaiting a wind breeze.

    Even the Pope himself thinks ecology is the most important issue for Christians - much more so than evangelisation, which does not interest him at all - what more is there to say? The prime figure in Christianity agrees with you, Ahnenerbe and the greens. This whole Christians are ecologically unaware, heathens are greens business is merely a talking point of the heathen far right. Yes, it's because of the Bible, I understand. But why should there be an emphasis on nature in the Bible, it's about human salvation after all - plus, the Christian Bible was composed almost 2000 years ago, well before industrialisation, the rise of the scientific method, overpopulation, etc. The Bible does not offer to its readers a holistic ideology like the Quran does, it was never meant to be an explanation of everything nor a political guide. Nothing stops a Christian from being an ecologist.

    Quote Originally Posted by W.K.
    "Eco-communists"? I have not heard that term before. Are you implying that 'communism' is somehow connected to environmental concerns? If so, on what basis have you come to this conclusion?
    Eco-marxism. Google it up. It's a very popular ideology amongst leftists. I've known several of these guys personally and they didn't like me. For ecologists, including those active within the U.N., the answer to all our environmental concerns is always world communism. Bloody typical!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe
    The English elite is THE one most known for both its plutocracy AND pedophilia
    Not quite so. The City of London is not Britain, literally. And the "British" pedos are their internationalists - their pro-EU elite and spokepersons of the plutocracy. Jimmy Savile's besties. Brexit wasn't the doing of the pedo-elite, importing/moving around new victims is harder with hard borders. Not sure why you'd think Britain is more of a pedo free-for-all than let's say Belgium, Belgium has gotta be worse. The worst. Nor does it matter in this regard. In so far structural pedophile rape happens, we only have to look at the europhobic upper layer of our Western civilization & the intelligence services.

    I agree that the transnational plutocracy can afford to lose EU-Britain, probably why there was a referendum in the first place, but unlike you I still believe it to be a huge improvement when it comes to immigration & matters of national sovereignity and hence the ability for ordinary Britons to affect political decision making in the U.K. - just not as big of a change as it would be for the Netherlands or Norway. And the Netherlands and Norway would still be controlled by banksters too after a EU-exit, the level of (direct) control would be undeniably less though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe
    (how are the English rednecks called, btw?)
    Chavs, maybe. Still better: yokels. And currently popular amongst the hipster left: gammon. The inhabitants of Coronation Street at any rate. But this thread is not about Brexit, so let's not go there.

    What makes environmental alarmism different from, lightly put, the other questionable dominant narratives of our age - such as the war on terror, the Holocaust and the dogmas on race & I.Q./race and crime? What sets it apart? What makes you believe it? In each of these cases the usual suspects, the rulers of the Earth, are pushing these narratives and using the same tactics to promote their message and silence dissenters - that can not be disputed without dying on this hill.

    "But 97% of specialists believe in man made global warming!" (also said when other scientists from other fields don't believe in man made global warming)

    Even if true, 97% of them have been wrong countless times before forever - even with much better data, reaching further back in time - 97% are wrong about race, the Holocaust and the war on terror. And they were wrong about global cooling decades ago. Academics are notoriously conformist - intelligent enough to build a career but not wise - and the scientists who can say climate change directly pertains to their field have a vested interest in making this threat appear as big as possible, their careers and department funding depend on it. They're not different from the military-industrial complex or the CIA overstating threats to American national security for the very same reason.

    Even if there's something to man made global warming, I don't exclude that - I'm agnostic on the issue ... it's still just about money, power and control if you're a Rothschild or a Rockefeller. It's incredibly naive to just believe it all, knowing what we already know about how our world really operates.

    I don't know whether it's true or false, and neither do you, Ahnenerbe - very few mortals are in a position to know. You have no certainy about it either.

    Coal isn't sexy, it's easy to be against coal as an energy source; yet the way things stand - there is no green energy which can meet our energy demands, even if it was affordable, which it is not. A green economy creating jobs? I'll believe it when I see it - the fact that it still isn't around after twenty years of harping on about it speaks volumes.
    "If we were going to stand in darkness, best we stand in a darkness we had made ourselves.Ē ― Douglas Coupland, Shampoo Planet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech View Post
    Then they're wrong. Christianity in America is in complete shambles, an utter travesty, pure idolatry. Protestantism and Catholicism alike. And it's no secret to faithful Americans. The rest think that when they go/donate to a church ("accept Christ in their heart as their lord and saviour"), they henceforth got Jesus blessing to sin all they want. These people are absolutely clueless - and think Christianity is whatever they want it to be, a blanco cheque - and it's all about being nice ( ), inclusivity, saving the planet and this type of faggotry. If anyone can watch that video to the end - congratulations - I tried three times but couldn't. What remains of Anglo-American Christians shall be completely wiped off the map in the time space of a generation, two at most. Calling christianity in America a capitalist enterprise is not exactly an argument in favor of the point you try to make, I'd say.
    So is Christianity dead? Is it or not? Lets take a close look what it actually is.

    Christians are a group of people that believe in Christ. They believe in all what happened on a Cross some 2,000 years ago and follow Christ in all his teachings. Since those days numerous church groups have been formed that is why we have all those denominations today. Some groups don't get along with each other because of different interpretations of the Gospels (the Good News). Protestants and Catholics have killed each other. The crusaders have killed thousands in the name of a God that they even did not know and worship in truth.
    So have to agree, churches are dying on the Protestant and Catholic side. Both preach another Gospel in many ways. They teach so-called truths that do not exist in the Gospels.
    Churches have been organized almost like political groups. The organized church is dying. Spirituality in the organized church is vanishing. Members believe what's suits them. It has become a tailored belief, a designer religion.
    Massif mega churches have sprung up, millions of dollars are being collected with the promise you are going to be rich too. It works, worshipers are falling into that trap. I could make you a list of what is going on. I'm not to judge, I leave that up to God.
    I don't belong to any organized church for fear of becoming derailed in my scriptural beliefs.
    How did I get to this point? Years ago I listen to Billy Graham, he showed me the simple way of becoming who I am today. It worked, I'm fulfilled.

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    First off, the problem isn't the Climate Change, but the environment. Both humans and the planet have been through several changes of the geo-climate and even though it'd make quite a few densely populated spaces quite uninhabitable, adaptation would be possible. On the other hand, if your food + water is poisoned, pretty much all life is doomed.

    The second problem is a completely theoretical error of wide parts of the Right. Traditionally, environmentalist thinking was a Conservative, Preservationist topic. A lot of early environmental thinkers up to Konrad Lorenz were at the same time theoreticians of the Right. And it stands to reason: From a patriotic/nationalist/conservative perspective, the environment is seen as part of the homeland, a ground on which cultures build. The Left on the other hand, well into the 80s believed in progress at all costs.

    Then, they discovered 'Green' politics and basically 'stole' environmentalist thinking. They've indeed been so successful at this, that many of today's conservative and/or patriotic thinkers, especially wide parts of the alt-right and the Libertarian camp, believe environmentalism to genuinely be a left-wing ideology. As such, there is an automatic "Against"-button in their minds which will counter sensible proposals for the sake of the environment just for the sake of it. Instead of getting back that central preservationist position.

    And indeed, this probably wouldn't be at all too difficult. Because deep in their heart, the Left is still about progress at all costs. It is hedonistic and concerned with Consumerism. In truth, nothing could be less ecological than buying all types of Hipster goods from clothing to cars, because their production will always mean a greater carbon footprint than continuing to use whatever you already have until it breaks. Also, the Left is mainly concerned with urban development - whilst much of environmental issues will happen in the countryside: that hillbilly place they typically scorn, bad "Trump country" and such.

    A preservationist rebirth will need to tackle the ecological question and it'll have to offer sustainable formats. All it needs to do is to listen to what the country-folk that is already sympathetic to the general preservationist idea, and to fuse it into a new form of Right-wing ecological thinking. This is especially true in Europe, much more so in Germany, where strong radical-left 'Green' parties continue to excel at the ballot box...

    ...not because of their pseudo-Communist open-borders policy. (though they'll fuse it in talking about so-called "climate refugees"). But, because they've made ecology their own topic and currently basically have a monopoly on a question that will continue to be a current topic for decades, if not centuries. Let's break their hegemony on environmentalist thinking and take their last argumentative stronghold away by bringing good ol' pro-Nature thinking back home into the Right.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von LŁgen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
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    Then they're wrong. Christianity in America is in complete shambles, an utter travesty, pure idolatry. Protestantism and Catholicism alike. And it's no secret to faithful Americans. The rest think that when they go/donate to a church ("accept Christ in their heart as their lord and saviour"), they henceforth got
    Jesus
    blessing to sin all they want. These people are absolutely clueless - and think Christianity is whatever they want it to be, a blanco cheque - and it's all about being nice (
    ), inclusivity, saving the planet and
    this type of faggotry
    . If anyone can watch that video to the end - congratulations - I tried three times but couldn't. What remains of Anglo-American Christians shall be completely wiped off the map in the time space of a generation, two at most. Calling christianity in America a capitalist enterprise is not exactly an argument in favor of the point you try to make, I'd say.
    Chlodovech, I don't for one moment believe that the majority of people who designate themselves as 'Christian' whether it be in the USA or elsewhere are genuine in terms of their beliefs. I know the difference and respect those who are genuine. It is the fake ones that hide behind that identity or are too cowardly psychologically to cast off their childhood indoctrination that I have no time for. Their actions and hate filled words betray them. One could call them 'cultural Christians' and they appear to still be in the majority in the USA. This is very unlike the situation in northern European countries, ie the Germanic lands where Christianity is either dead or dying. In England the churches are empty apart from the old and African/Afro-Caribbean immigrants. The vast majority of native English people are either agnostic, atheist or heathen/pagan. Indeed the various types of pre-Christian spiritual paths are growing amongst the English and I look forward to the 2021 census when I expect to see further growth.

    It has not been a potent force for decades - not even the civic nationalist version of Christian nationalism can be called a dominant stream within just the Republican party. You have a dated view of the U.S.A. in my opinion. Yes, Bush and Trump both still paid some lip service to Christian patriotism - credible or meaningful it is not. American Christianity is a house of cards awaiting a wind breeze.
    From my own interactions with American racialists on the Internet I find that where there are any religious affiliations they tend to be Christian rather than heathen. The opposite is the case with Europeans. Trump repeatedly appealed to the religiosity of his supporters during his campaign-cynically done I may add. Christian nationalists thus see Trump as 'their man' in the White House. I do not for one minute believe that Trump is a Christian from either his words or his actions but he plays to that crowd in a way that a European politician would not. This tells you something about the religious climate of the USA compared to northern Europe. I don't think we should underestimate the potency of Christianity in American politics-even today as we are on the verge of 2019!

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/chr...project-blitz/



    In the 2016 election, Trump got 81 percent support from white evangelical Christians, and a study by Clemson sociologist Andrew Whitehead and two colleagues (Salon story here) found that “the ‘religious vote’ for Trump was primarily the result of Christian nationalism,” an Old Testament-based worldview fusing Christian and American identities that “can be unmoored from traditional moral import emphasizing only its notions of exclusion and apocalyptic war and conquest.”

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