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Thread: European Nationalist Faith

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    European Nationalist Faith

    In this thread I'll be promoting the idea of reforming our churches to reflect a new nationalist vision. It's common sense to have something modern, where "the faith" would simply be "faith in our people and nations" and the sermons would be on real history, science, philosophy, culture (where we could reference our old religions), and nationalism, but while currently fantasy, I wish more of our leaders would connect to this simple idea. I'll start with Britain and then Germany. Feel free to add a blurb on your country. Thank you for your forum.


    The British Faith and Church



    The greatest issue facing people of British descent is that we have no religion unique to our group, nor ethnic community centres to attend. If you go to to the Church of England or the Church of Scotland you don't hear about English and Scottish history and culture, you hear about Roman-Jewish mythology and culture.

    May the British Government and Empire launch a new age reformation of the Church for our people. The British government owes it to the British folk across the world to reform the Church in our honour (the other denominations will follow suit).

    Future of religion in Britain is Islam and black majority churches | Christian News on Christian Today

    9 Feb 2015 ... The future of religion in Britain is in black majority churches and Islam, according to a leading expert in religious trends. For white British people ...

    Church Chat: Where did London's majority white church population go? : Adventist News Network

    14 Dec 2011 ... Ian Sweeney says that within the more than 11,000 Seventh-day Adventist Church members in the London area there are probably less than 200 white British.

    2067: The end of British Christianity - The Spectator

    13 Jun 2015 ... It's often said that Britain's church congregations are shrinking, but that doesn't come close to expressing the scale of the disaster now facing Christianity in this country. Every ten years the census spells out the situation in detail: between 2001 and 2011 the number of Christians born in Britain fell by 5.3 million — about 10,000 a week. If that rate of decline continues, the mission of St Augustine to the English, together with that of the Irish saints to the Scots, will come to an end in 2067.

    'No religion' is the new norm, survey of White British finds - Church Times

    22 Jan 2016 ... In a survey of all races in the UK, carried out by researchers at Lancaster University last month, the majority of white British adults said that they have “no religion” at all. Just a quarter of those, however, were confident that there is no God.

    The British state mustn't let go of the church - The Telegraph

    16 Jan 2009 - The wishy-washiness of the Church of England, about which many critics complain, is the very point of it. The benefit that Britain has gained ...
    To keep the institution relevant, we need the Church to actually focus on and celebrate the British people (instead of Jewish-Roman folklore). We need the Church to include science i.e. the Theory of Evolution (Church owes Charles Darwin apology over evolution theory, says senior Anglican); a rundown on the laws of physics, biology, chemistry; an overview of psychology; etc. We need the history of the British peoples presented, and "our culture" showcased. There should be a review of general philosophy and all the theologies on the planet, with great emphasis on our monotheistic and polytheistic traditions in Europe.

    Being a proud 'atheist/agnostic', or 'philosophical traditionalist', and giving up on 'Christianity' is unstrategic. Those are OUR BUILDINGS our forefathers built. It'd be like abandoning your home because you didn't like the architect. We need to infiltrate the Church and work to REFORM it into something realistic, that suits our national ethnic interests.

    Every European nation ought to reform its nationalist church such that its people is the subject matter - NOT the Jewish people, but the actual linguistic nationality the church serves. That's all Judaism is after all - the history of the Hebrew peoples (Christianity being a tangent of that story):

    Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Most scholars agree that Jesus was a Jewish rabbi from Galilee who preached his message orally,[20] ...
    ...with a bunch of supernatural fantasy tied to it i.e. 'special powers' conferred on particular Jewish kings and commoners from the 'voice in the invisible'.

    The Italians/Romans and their Catholic Church, the Germans and their Lutheran churches, the Russians and their Eastern Orthodox Church, etc., ... every nation should present its history in its church i.e. the history of the peoples who 'originally' formed the nation (before mass immigration and multicultural-racial-nationalityism), the history of their wars, the history of their particular Paganism and Christianity, followed by modern science (Big Bang Theory, M-Theory, Theory of Evolution, neurobiology, psychology, etc.) and philosophy (we could also add some comedy, song and dance too lol).

    There is one page of the Bible I enjoy and that's this one:

    TO THE MOST HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCE JAMES, BY THE GRACE OF GOD,
    KING OF GREAT BRITAIN
    DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, ETC.

    THE TRANSLATORS OF THE BIBLE WISH GRACE, MERCY, AND PEACE

    King James Version of the Holy Bible - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

    Great and manifold were the blessings, most dread Sovereign, which Almighty God, the Father of all mercies, bestowed upon us the people of England, when first he sent Your Majesty's Royal Person to rule and reign over us. For whereas it was the expectation of many, who wished not well unto our Sion, that, upon the setting of that bright Occidental Star, Queen Elizabeth, of most happy memory, some thick and palpable clouds of darkness would so have overshadowed this land, that men should have been in doubt which way they were to walk, and that it should hardly be known who was to direct the unsettled State; the appearance of Your Majesty, as of the Sun in his strength, instantly dispelled those supposed and surmised mists, and gave unto all that were well affected exceeding cause of comfort; especially when we beheld the Government established in Your Highness, and Your hopeful Seed, by an undoubted Title; and this also accompanied with peace and tranquility at home and abroad.
    Christianity's place in our reformed/restored churches should be respected, yet transcended. The wonderful simplicity of the authoritative patriarchal Father, Son and Holy Ghost ought to be respected and admired for its simplistic brilliance.

    The British are being erased. The history of the British peoples is rich and fascinating, just like the Jewish peoples (except we should stop following their folklore). The New Bible of the British peoples ought to be a compilation of the Encyclopedia Britannica, Wikipedia, Metapedia, Uncyclopedia, Youtube, Trutube, etc. The Celts, Romans, Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, Normans, etc., which formed the British, who largely formed North America, and are probably 90% of the people reading this board, should mobilize towards this new vision. I'd be happy taking an oath of allegiance to the Cosmos (and perhaps the Queen and nation for my job, and love at my wedding), but not to a mythological character in an old Roman-Jewish book. The Church needs to be updated!

    The following is a hypothetical framework for the "theology" of a "British Church":

    Sermon 1: Big Bang

    How the Universe Works - The Big Bang

    Sermon 2: The Story of Earth and Life

    The Best Documentary Ever!! - The Story Of Earth And Life

    Sermon 3: Ape To Man Evolution

    Ape To Man: Evolution Documentary History Channel

    Sermon 4: Specific Evolution of the White Race

    Dr Douglas Whitman: "The Evolutionary and Biological Reality of Race"
    Dr Kevin Macdonald: "The Origins of the White Man"

    Sermon 5: History of the World and Europe

    History of the World: Every Year
    History of Europe - 6013 years in 3 minutes

    Sermon 6: Founding Empires of Europe

    Greeks Romans Vikings: The Founding Civilizations Of Europe - History Documentary HD

    Sermon 7: The British Empire

    History of Britain
    History of the British Empire

    Sermon 8: British America War of Independence

    American War of Independence

    Ideally, within the British Church, the American Revolution would be thought of as an unnecessary civil war tragedy within the British Empire, where a better solution was to allow the British folk that controlled America its greater freedoms, and to have reformation within the Church as suggested in this thread.

    Sermon 9: The Religions of Europe and Britain


    To make everyone happy, ideally we'd be referencing Christianity, Paganism (Asatru/Druidism), and whatever other myths.

    We'd also discuss real European history as a subject of the sermons, science (i.e. physics, biology, chemistry, psychology), philosophy, etc. We'd discuss the wisdom of New Agers, such as Carl Jung, Alan Watts, etc. We'd look to shows like Monty Python, Simpsons, South Park, Family Guy, American Dad, etc. for comedy.

    Here is an American counterpart to the British Church:

    European American Faith and Church

    The Monarchy ought to consider declaring a state of spiritual emergency for the British folk:

    Prince Charles: Why we need a meddling Monarch (reform the Church)!

    Did the Church civilize Europe or vice versa?

    Sermon 9b: Christianity


    Instead of JC or Odin/Baldr you could call It the "Cosmos", ... but there's no specific Holy Book to go with that (although here is a good effort: Cosmos Theology) and the issue with science is that we realize we're rising simians. Jared Taylor tends to end the American Renaissance conferences with "And may the spirit of our people guide you forward." For a British Church, we might discuss the idea of a British God. At some point there needs to be a binding philosophy to unify us all. On an interesting note, this is something Hitler intended Alfred Rosenberg to create for Germans:

    Dr Alfred Rosenberg

    My Myth (Myth of the Blood aka genes and peoplehood/nationalism) had met with considerable disapproval. I know, for example, that copies of the collective attack made against me by the Roman Church (it was entitled Studieste) had been sent by the various bishoprics to all higher military posts in an effort to do away with me scientifically. [...]

    At the end of 1939, the Führer accepted the suggestion that he give me a directive, addressed to party, state and Wehrmacht, to bring about and secure a unification of National Socialist philosophy.

    Odd characters had attached themselves to our various branches, and the Reich Ministry of Education vacillated considerably. I wanted to bring about a firm though non-sectarian attitude. My appointment had been agreed upon.

    Then, suddenly, the Führer told me that Mussolini wanted to come into the war after all, and had asked him to do nothing at the moment that might aggravate the Church. My assuming office at this critical time would cause a great deal of disquiet. I agreed that under the circumstances my appointment would naturally have to be postponed. [...] No matter what the respective spiritual positions may be, today, after the collapse, the time for a final showdown between opposing philosophies has certainly not yet arrived.

    [...]

    The basic theme upon which we built all our plans, ..., was a philosophy of art.

    The National Reich Church (aka The German Church) - Wikipedia

    The philosopher Alan Watts essentially completed what Dr Alfred Rosenberg wanted to say IMO:


    Worldview

    In several of his later publications, especially Beyond Theology and The Book on the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are, Watts put forward a worldview, drawing on Hinduism, Chinese philosophy, pantheism or panentheism, and modern science, in which he maintains that the whole universe consists of a cosmic self playing hide-and-seek (Lila), hiding from itself (Maya) by becoming all the living and non-living things in the universe, forgetting what it really is; the upshot being that we are all IT in disguise. In this worldview, Watts asserts that our conception of ourselves as an "ego in a bag of skin" is a myth; the entities we call the separate "things" are merely aspects of the whole.

    Watts's books frequently include discussions reflecting his keen interest in patterns that occur in nature and which are repeated in various ways and at a wide range of scales – including the patterns to be discerned in the history of civilizations.[38][39]

    That is It (and you can find your evidence through paranormal synchronicity as Carl Jung described).

    Sermon 9c: New Age


    Again, the old with a modern spin:
    Asatru Folk Assembly Sermon

    The trouble is the Pagans have maybe 1-2 temples on the planet. The Unitarian Universalists (UUs) have buildings in nearly every city Pagans can use, but we'd like to see this same concept applied to the Church of England.

    In any event, it is unfair that we non-Jewish Europeans must continue to strictly follow a derivation of the Jews' mythology as our nationalist religion. The consequences of not having a religion to celebrate your heritage and protect your tribe can manifest itself in many ways, namely a lack of positivity and social cohesion for the nation. At the end of the day, we realize we're part of the whole, and we want to participate in the multicultural society as an integral piece of that diversity, but we also want our identity as a group to be explicit.


    Long live Great Britain and the British Empire! God save the Queen!




    Needless to say, there should be a "Global Faith" to which we also all belong, followed by the subdenomination of British Faith (and every nation should have a counterpart). Finally, the good stuff - see below:





    Sermon 10: British Politics and Culture (Travel, Food, Comedy, Song, and Dance)

    Sermon 10a: Politics

    Jonathan Bowden: Tolerance & Empire, Leftist Delusions, Islamification, Labour Liars, British Future
    Dr Andrew Fraser: The WASP Question


    Sermon 10b: Culture

    Travel Great Britain and Ireland
    Food
    Music
    Dance
    Comedy



    I ask that the Monarchy push ahead with reforming the Church so we British descendants have a place to come together.

    Richard Dawkins has announced he's a "cultural Anglican." Prince Charles defines himself as a "philosophical traditionalist". Surely, for an hour or two a week (or month), a scientific/philosophical/new age sermon could be delivered.

    Those following British paganism are supposedly also welcome. Surely for an additional hour or two a month, a pagan sermon could occur. Moreover, we'd like to see both types of sermons combined with the Christian sermons, with British history, culture, and nationalism added as well.

    Please reform the Church.

    The Queen is a true Christian leader. But what about Prince Charles, who seems more interested in worshipping ...? | Coffee House

    ...the Prince of Wales practises what David Starkey calls ‘English Shinto’ – the English worshipping themselves
    These sermons are getting closer to the mark:

    Ash Wednesday: Bishop of London Sermon - St Paul's Cathedral - YouTube
    Bishop of London's amazing speech to William and Kate - YouTube
    Margaret Thatcher's funeral: Bishop of London's sermon in full - YouTube

    Hopefully the Church can cater to these concepts as well:

    Paganism:
    UU's Pagan Roots - Sermon: Rev. Jennifer Ryu - May 4, 2014 - YouTube
    NewGrange Hall Asatru Hof - YouTube

    Science:
    Cosmos Theology - YouTube
    Tom Campbell: A Recent Physics Experiment and What it Means to You - YouTube

    New Age/Integral:
    KW - Shout from the heart!! - YouTube
    Ken Wilber on Levels of development - YouTube
    Ken Wilber on Ego Development - YouTube
    Ken Wilber - Subject becomes object - YouTube
    Are You Enlightened - Ken Wilber? - YouTube
    Democratizing Enlightenment - Ken Wilber - YouTube

    Britishism:
    History of the British Isles - Wikipedia
    Culture of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
    British nationalism - Wikipedia

    Comedy:
    Monty Python - YouTube
    Dean Martin Roasts - YouTube

    Dom Delouise, John Candy, Steve Martin, Rodney Dangerfield, John Winters, Etc.

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    The German Faith and Church



    The German people ought to have a German Church, where the Bible would be supplemented with real history, philosophy, science, and German culture. The name for this new "religion" should be the German Faith. Needless to say, every nation should have an equivalent version. There should also be a general "European Faith" and "Global Faith" to which we all hold dear to our hearts.

    Someone who endorsed this idea was Dr Alfred Rosenberg. Please bear in mind I in no way endorse what was National Socialism, but it is clear, in my opinion, various new age groups formed around that time, and the government was considering adopting one (or creating a hybrid version) to act as the new religion for Germany, but then Hitler banned it all in favor of Positive Christianity.

    My Myth (German peoplehood and faith therein) had met with considerable disapproval. I know, for example, that copies of the collective attack made against me by the Roman Church (it was entitled Studieste) had been sent by the various bishoprics to all higher military posts in an effort to do away with me scientifically. [...]

    At the end of 1939, the Führer accepted the suggestion that he give me a directive, addressed to party, state and Wehrmacht, to bring about and secure a unification of National Socialist philosophy.

    Odd characters had attached themselves to our various branches, and the Reich Ministry of Education vacillated considerably. I wanted to bring about a firm though non-sectarian attitude. My appointment had been agreed upon.

    Then, suddenly, the Führer told me that Mussolini wanted to come into the war after all, and had asked him to do nothing at the moment that might aggravate the Church. My assuming office at this critical time would cause a great deal of disquiet. I agreed that under the circumstances my appointment would naturally have to be postponed. [...] No matter what the respective spiritual positions may be, today, after the collapse, the time for a final showdown between opposing philosophies has certainly not yet arrived.

    [...]

    The basic theme upon which we built all our plans, however, was a philosophy of art.
    Kirchenkampf - Wikipedia

    During the War, Rosenberg, the party's official ideologist outlined the future envisioned for religion in Germany, with a thirty-point program for the future of the German churches. Among its articles: (1) the National Reich Church of Germany was to claim exclusive control over all churches in the Reich; (5) foreign faiths imported to Germany in 800 AD were to be supplemented; (7) priests/pastors were to be replaced with National Reich Orators; (13) publication of the Bible was to slow; (18) crucifixes, Bibles and saints to be supplemented; (19) Mein Kampf was to be placed on altars "to the German nation and therefore to God, one of the most sacred books"; (30) the Christian Cross was to be supplemented.[48]
    The idea of replacing the Bible with Mein Kampf is largely nonsense (the reference for that claim is very questionable). Deep down Hitler and Rosenberg wanted Christianity evolved (IMO), but they realized the futility of that effort and placated it. They'd never been given the time of day otherwise.

    Even Rosenberg maintained he was Christian:

    Gnostic Origins of Alfred Rosenberg's Thought - Institute of Historical Review

    Rosenberg insisted throughout his writings and speeches that he was a Christian.
    Hitler regretted writing Mein Kampf so obviously they wouldn't have wanted the Bible replaced with it (thanks for thinking of us Wikipedia ).

    Rise of Hitler: Hitler's Book "Mein Kampf" - The History Place

    Hitler would later express regret that he produced Mein Kampf, considering the extent of its revelations.
    With respect to Rosenberg's book, Hitler said it was:

    Alfred Rosenberg - Wikipedia

    "stuff nobody can understand"[14]
    The existing churches ought to be reformed with a sensible new platform that honours the heritage of the German people. The Lutheran churches especially should be renamed "The German Church."

    Two other noteworthy initiatives in this direction were/are:

    German Faith Movement
    German Faith Movement - Wikipedia
    German Faith Movement - Metapedia
    Deutsche Glaubensbewegung – German Wikipedia

    The German Faith Movement (Deutsche Glaubensbewegung) was closely associated with Jakob Wilhelm Hauer during the Third Reich (1933-1945) and sought to move Germany away from Christianity towards a religion based on the German peoplehood. Hauer was a professor at the University of Tübingen.

    The development of the German Faith Movement revolved around several themes:

    • the history of the world and Germany.
    • science (i.e. psychology) and philosophy.
    • the supplementation of Christian ceremonies by pagan and new-age equivalents.
    • the propagation of the 'blood and soil' ideology.
    Little information is available on the content of German Faith Movement, for the brief year it was permitted to exist, before Hitler banned it in favor of Christianity and/or a very secular concept where the state and simply believing in God (Gottgläubig - taxation category) would act as a substitute:

    The German Faith Movement - Stormfront
    The German Faith Movement - VNN

    This second initiative is also noteworthy:

    German Confederation for the Knowledge of God

    Bund für Deutsche Gotterkenntnis – Wikipedia
    Bund fur Deutsche Gotterkenntnis - Official Website
    Mathilde Ludendorff - Wikipedia

    She represented the Bible as a Roman-Jewish work of fiction and instead called for a panentheism rooted in science and blood and soil rhetoric in which the soul of God permeated the land as a whole.[11] As part of her dual assault on Christianity and the occult, Ludendorff drew on her interpretation of science to develop her own religion, Gotterkenntnis or 'God Cognition', which emphasized notions of racial inheritance, culture, nationalism, economy and justice.[2]
    On a last note, Dr Alfred Rosenberg took a keen interest in the Asian philosophies/religions at the end of his life:
    Memoirs of Dr Alfred Rosenberg

    India came first, Schröder, Böthlingk, Schlaginweit, Schack, and so on. Everything concerning its philosophy and literature was dug up. Only then did I begin to comprehend the whole wealth of this culture, once so great: the aristocracy of its thoughts and the beauty of its poetry. I excerpted many volumes and kept the excerpts through all the years. In 1943, when my house was bombed, I found a last half-torn page in the rubble. I picked it up and stuck it into my pocket. Now that, too, is gone. Whenever I dreamed about a place of work for my declining years, I invariably considered the utilisation of India's wisdom, and actually founded in Munich a research office for Indo-Germanic history. A prominent historian had laid out an ambitious plan, and a four-volume edition of Indien und der deutsche Geist (India and the German spirit) was in preparation. Much had been started; but now everything has collapsed. The basic theme upon which we built all our plans, however, was a philosophy of art.
    The philosopher Alan Watts essentially completed what Dr Alfred Rosenberg wanted to say IMO:


    Worldview

    In several of his later publications, especially Beyond Theology and The Book on the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are, Watts put forward a worldview, drawing on Hinduism, Chinese philosophy, pantheism or panentheism, and modern science, in which he maintains that the whole universe consists of a cosmic self playing hide-and-seek (Lila), hiding from itself (Maya) by becoming all the living and non-living things in the universe, forgetting what it really is; the upshot being that we are all IT in disguise. In this worldview, Watts asserts that our conception of ourselves as an "ego in a bag of skin" is a myth; the entities we call the separate "things" are merely aspects of the whole.

    Watts's books frequently include discussions reflecting his keen interest in patterns that occur in nature and which are repeated in various ways and at a wide range of scales – including the patterns to be discerned in the history of civilizations.[38][39]
    Hitler once addressed the religious question at the Culture Convention in 1938 (after he banned the German Faith movement):

    NUREMBERG SPEECH OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1938

    https://www.stormfront.org/forum/sho...7&postcount=75

    National Socialism is not a cult-movement- a movement for worship; it is exclusively a 'volkic' political doctrine based upon the German peoplehood. In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship. Therefore we have no rooms for worship, but only halls for the people - no open spaces for worship, but spaces for assemblies and parades. We have no religious retreats, but arenas for sports and playing-fields, and the characteristic feature of our places of assembly is not the mystical gloom of a cathedral, but the brightness and light of a room or hall which combines beauty with fitness for its purpose. In these halls no acts of worship are celebrated, they are exclusively devoted to gatherings of the people of the kind which we have come to know in the course of our long struggle; to such gatherings we have become accustomed and we wish to maintain them. We will not allow mystically-minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else - in any case, something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our program there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will - not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord.

    There were times when a half-light was the necessary condition for the effectiveness of certain teachings: we live in an age when light is for us the fundamental condition of successful action. It will be a sorry day when through the stealing in of obscure mystic elements the Movement or the State itself issues obscure commissions.... It is even dangerous to issue any commission for a so-called place of worship, for with the building will arise the necessity for thinking out so-called religious recreations or religious rites, which have nothing to do with National Socialism. Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed. Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men: it is to these we pay our respect.
    It's extremely unfortunate Hitler didn't allow what I've emboldened IMO. He should have allowed for the creation of a German Faith and had buildings to celebrate that faith. The "sermons" would be about real history, German culture, science, philosophy, etc. It's not rocket science, and Hitler kept purposefully ignorant on this issue to keep everyone connected to him and his party. He ruined our chances of having an ethnic nationalist faith through his insane war, by causing a backlash against nationalism, and yet he was also the last major Western leader to seriously address the religious question.

    We need a German faith today for Germany, a British faith for Britain, a French faith for France, etc.

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    A "faith" based on national culture is not a faith, it is at best an ideology. Spirituality is something else altogether. It's more like a technology that can be adopted by anyone, which is why religions transcend borders and ethnicities.

    That's why in the end they didn't push that "German faith" thing too much, as the NS ideology was fulfilling that purpose. And NS was about much, much more than base nationalism/parochalism. It was about reorganizing Europe entirely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    Being a proud 'atheist/agnostic', or 'philosophical traditionalist', and giving up on 'Christianity' is unstrategic. Those are OUR BUILDINGS our forefathers built. It'd be like abandoning your home because you didn't like the architect. We need to infiltrate the Church and work to REFORM it into something realistic, that suits our national ethnic interests.
    Better to withhold from belief than to believe in lies. Agnosticism/atheism is only detrimental if it's taken as an absolute/permanent stance.

    Infiltration of the Church and a clean sweep of it's policies is not something that can be accomplished as a collective (which risks it degenerating into a Bolshevik style mass movement). It requires specialized individuals, perhaps philologists and biologists.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    That's all Judaism is after all - the history of the Hebrew peoples
    Judaism is about world expansion and bringing everyone down to the same level, way of thinking, way of life, which is Jewish. One identity for racially mixed peoples that can only come together to fight a common threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    The Italians/Romans and their Catholic Church, the Germans and their Lutheran churches, the Russians and their Eastern Orthodox Church, etc., ... every nation should present its history in its church i.e. the history of the peoples who 'originally' formed the nation (before mass immigration and multicultural-racial-nationalityism), the history of their wars, the history of their particular Paganism and Christianity, followed by modern science (Big Bang Theory, M-Theory, Theory of Evolution, neurobiology, psychology, etc.) and philosophy (we could also add some comedy, song and dance too lol).
    Firmly teaching people the differences between right and wrong, good and evil and educating them in law and order would accomplish more than being indoctrinated into a history fiction construct (whether mainstream or revisionist).

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    There is one page of the Bible I enjoy and that's this one:

    Christianity's place in our reformed/restored churches should be respected, yet transcended. The wonderful simplicity of the authoritative patriarchal Father, Son and Holy Ghost ought to be respected and admired for its simplistic brilliance.
    Only sophists could admire the confusing formulation given for the Christian Trinity. It's not sufficient to simply replace it with something equivalent. That'd be a tragedy.

    Koehl's New Order proposes:
    “There is but one Supreme Being, one Ultimate Source of all causation — one great Primal Power, infinite and eternal — which we recognize.”

    Catholic Church: “There is but one God, the creator of heaven and earth, the supreme incorporeal, uncreated being who exists of Himself and is infinite in all his attributes.”

    Church of England: “There is but one living and true God everlasting, without body, parts, or passions, of infinite power, wisdom and goodness.”

    I side with Joseph Smith and Ernst Haeckel in their critical examinations of these ruinous creeds for the deity.

    In particular, "The curious adventures of Christ after his death, the descent into hell, resurrection, and ascension, are also fantastic myths due to the narrow geocentric ideas of an uneducated people."

    We need a crystal clear formulation for the deity which takes into account all of his aspects (i.e. god working through human individuals, god as a personal helper/guardian angel, god as an impersonal world force which shapes things). Hitler was apparently interested in giving it an attempt:

    "It's impossible to escape the problem of God. When I have the time, I'll work out the formulae to be used on great occasions. We must have something perfect both in thought and in form."
    - Table Talk, Jan. 1-2, 1942

    I propose using this letter from Seneca as a model: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral...lius/Letter_41

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    We'd discuss the wisdom of New Agers, such as Carl Jung, Alan Watts, etc.
    You mean sophistry. Jung and Watts had their ups and downs, but we really need look no further than our great men: Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Wagner, Goethe, Schiller, Kepler, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    We'd look to shows like Monty Python, Simpsons, South Park, Family Guy, American Dad, etc. for comedy.
    You can't be serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    [LEFT] Instead of JC or Odin/Baldr you could call It the "Cosmos", ... but there's no specific Holy Book to go with that (although here is a good effort: Cosmos Theology) and the issue with science is that we realize we're rising simians. Jared Taylor tends to end the American Renaissance conferences with "And may the spirit of our people guide you forward." For a British Church, we might discuss the idea of a British God. At some point there needs to be a binding philosophy to unify us all.
    I've seen people (i.e. Krishnamurti, pantheists) reduce god to a vague, lifeless concept, in which case it's better for people to retain their current anthropomorphic view of god.

    Also, neither Hitler nor Bormann were pantheistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    Needless to say, there should be a "Global Faith" to which we also all belong, followed by the subdenomination of British Faith (and every nation should have a counterpart).
    No one religion is fit for everyone in a nation. To each his own, as long as it doesn't conflict with the national interest.

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    The greatest issue facing people of British descent is that we have no religion unique to our group, nor ethnic community centres to attend. If you go to to the Church of England or the Church of Scotland you don't hear about English and Scottish history and culture, you hear about Roman-Jewish mythology and culture.
    First of all you need to clarify what you mean by 'British descent'. 'British' is merely a political, not an ethnic identity unless you apply the term to the Cymri (Welsh, Cornish).

    Secondly Christianity has nothing to do with any kind of nationalism, certainly not a racial nationalism for in the eyes of the Church "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28, AV)

    Either you are a Christian or you are not but if you are then how do you reconcile and justify the concept of Das Volk with a religion that deifies a fictional Jew, a religion built upon Judaism that has no place in Europa? You need to choose your spiritual path (if you are spiritually inclined) and choose between the Abrahamic religions and the non-Abrahamic religions such as Germanic or other heathenism. What you propose is totally unworkable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuotans Krieger View Post
    Secondly Christianity has nothing to do with any kind of nationalism, certainly not a racial nationalism for in the eyes of the Church "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28, AV)

    Either you are a Christian or you are not but if you are then how do you reconcile and justify the concept of Das Volk with a religion that deifies a fictional Jew, a religion built upon Judaism that has no place in Europa? You need to choose your spiritual path (if you are spiritually inclined) and choose between the Abrahamic religions and the non-Abrahamic religions such as Germanic or other heathenism.
    I'm not Christian (never been to church for anything other than weddings and funerals; never baptized) and I generally feel the same way you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuotans Krieger View Post
    First of all you need to clarify what you mean by 'British descent'. 'British' is merely a political, not an ethnic identity unless you apply the term to the Cymri (Welsh, Cornish).
    A loose reference to people living in the British Isles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuotans Krieger View Post
    What you propose is totally unworkable.
    The Church of England is hinting that's it's moving towards something like what I describe above:

    Church of England creating 'pagan church' to recruit members - Telegraph
    Richard Dawkins admits he is a 'cultural Anglican' - Telegraph
    Are you Wiccan or Pagan? The Church of England has a place for you - GodDiscussion.com
    Church of England 'owes Darwin an apology' | The Independent
    The Traditionalist Prince of Wales | The American Conservative
    The Queen is a true Christian leader. But what about Prince Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe View Post
    A "faith" based on national culture is not a faith, it is at best an ideology.
    Fair enough. The idea I have in mind is that our "faith" would be placed in "our nation and people", instead of mythological figures. The mythological figures can still be useful allegory/role models (and the subjects of sermons), but they'd be superseded with a modern concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe View Post
    Spirituality is something else altogether. It's more like a technology that can be adopted by anyone, which is why religions transcend borders and ethnicities.
    Well said. I think Ken Wilber covers this idea thoroughly:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tl7WWU8tDk

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnenerbe View Post
    That's why in the end they didn't push that "German faith" thing too much, as the NS ideology was fulfilling that purpose. And NS was about much, much more than base nationalism/parochalism. It was about reorganizing Europe entirely.
    I agree; however, I would argue this decision by Hitler (which he implied at the Culture Convention in 1938) was a mistake. After essentially banning the German Faith Movement, his speeches became the "sermons" of an implied "German faith". When he recklessly started and lost that war, everything was lost with him.

    There was great potential in the German Faith Movement:

    Deutsche Glaubensbewegung – German Wikipedia

    The aim of the German Faith Movement [Deutsche Glaubensbewegung (DG)] was to establish an official non-Christian community of faith with the same rights as existing Churches. [11] It was only permissible to be a member of the DG if one was not a member of another religious community [for taxation purposes].

    On April 26, 1935, the DG held an event in the Sportpalast in Berlin. According to Fritz Gericke, head of the regional community of Berlin and co-organizer, 18,000 participated; one of the main speakers was Hauer. [12] On the fringe of the rally there were arguments with groups of Christians present, during which, among other things, the future clergyman Siegbert Stehmann was beaten and hospitalized.

    After the event, tensions between the leadership of the DG, Hauer and Gericke on the one hand and their national socialist counterparts on the other, intensified (to note: Hauer and Gericke were not members of the NSDAP at that point).
    Volkslexicon Drittes Reich, by Ludwig Peters and published by Grabert-Verlag, Tübingen, 1998
    Deutsche Glaubensbewegung - Axis History Forum

    The German Faith Movement was an attempt to bring together various religious groups and associations into an organization that would exercise religiosity in a purely German sense. The movement was founded on May 23, 1934 in Eisenach by J.W. Hauer, who was elected chairman.

    The movement rejected the Christian religion completely and began having manifold difficulties with the Nazi government one year later. As of 1935, the NS party prohibited members of the Hitler Youth and the SS from joining, and from 1937 onward, prohibited NSDAP members from joining. For these reasons, Hauer withdrew from the organization. The movement sank into insignificance thereafter.
    The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945, By Richard Steigmann-Gall, 2003, pp 151-152.
    The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity

    The DG's insistence that it was the religious expression of Nazism was not taken kindly in the NSDAP.

    [...]

    Finally, in August 1935, Heydrich forbade all rallies and other public meetings of the DG across the Reich.
    Deutsche Glaubensbewegung – German Wikipedia

    In February 1937 the lawyer Bernhard Wiedenhöft became
    "leader" of the German Faith Movement, which on 6 May 1938, upon being pressured by the NS, changed their name to "Kampfring Deutscher Glaube" (Struggle Ring of German Faith), so as not to sound as though they were attempting to interfere/compete with the NS "movement". In November 1938, Hauer rejected a leadership offer once again (to note: by this point, Hauer had become a member of the NSDAP).
    Herbert_Grabert - German Wikipedia

    After the suppression and subsequent failure of the German Faith Movement, Grabert underwent an abrupt change. He became fully in service of the "Third Reich" and argued that no independent pagan religious communities were necessary outside of national socialism. Outside of the Nazi Party, there was no need for any independent religious community, since in his mind "national socialism sufficed in every respect." At the end of 1937, he was quoted by the Christian World and the Young Church as follows:

    "For us, as for countless Germans, National Socialism is the new faith that makes super confessional and ideological groups superfluous." [14]

    In 1939 Grabert joined the NSDAP (membership number 7,291,699). Grabert was occasionally financed and supported by the Alfred-Rosenberg-Foundation. [15]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    Better to withhold from belief than to believe in lies. Agnosticism/atheism is only detrimental if it's taken as an absolute/permanent stance.

    Infiltration of the Church and a clean sweep of it's policies is not something that can be accomplished as a collective (which risks it degenerating into a Bolshevik style mass movement). It requires specialized individuals, perhaps philologists and biologists.
    Agreed on all counts. Hopefully leaders like Prince Charles and Richard Dawkins will help bring about change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    Judaism is about world expansion and bringing everyone down to the same level, way of thinking, way of life, which is Jewish. One identity for racially mixed peoples that can only come together to fight a common threat.
    Agreed. Jews put emphasis on their people and nation being a source of faith, and certainly we should do the same for our folk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    Firmly teaching people the differences between right and wrong, good and evil and educating them in law and order would accomplish more than being indoctrinated into a history fiction construct (whether mainstream or revisionist).
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    Only sophists could admire the confusing formulation given for the Christian Trinity. It's not sufficient to simply replace it with something equivalent. That'd be a tragedy.
    My idea is not to attack Christianity and attempt replacing its belief system, but to better organize and inspire our folk via reforming institutions like the Church of England and Church of Scotland (we'd supplement the Christianity present with nationalist sermons, perhaps outside Christian hours to start (there would also be Asatru sermons, outside Christian hours)). People could believe in whichever system, but emphasis would be placed on having faith in our people and nation above all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    Koehl's New Order proposes:
    “There is but one Supreme Being, one Ultimate Source of all causation — one great Primal Power, infinite and eternal — which we recognize.”

    Catholic Church: “There is but one God, the creator of heaven and earth, the supreme incorporeal, uncreated being who exists of Himself and is infinite in all his attributes.”

    Church of England: “There is but one living and true God everlasting, without body, parts, or passions, of infinite power, wisdom and goodness.”

    I side with Joseph Smith and Ernst Haeckel in their critical examinations of these ruinous creeds for the deity.

    In particular, "The curious adventures of Christ after his death, the descent into hell, resurrection, and ascension, are also fantastic myths due to the narrow geocentric ideas of an uneducated people."

    We need a crystal clear formulation for the deity which takes into account all of his aspects (i.e. god working through human individuals, god as a personal helper/guardian angel, god as an impersonal world force which shapes things). Hitler was apparently interested in giving it an attempt:

    "It's impossible to escape the problem of God. When I have the time, I'll work out the formulae to be used on great occasions. We must have something perfect both in thought and in form."
    - Table Talk, Jan. 1-2, 1942

    I propose using this letter from Seneca as a model: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral...lius/Letter_41
    Excellent. Thank you for your ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    You mean sophistry. Jung and Watts had their ups and downs, but we really need look no further than our great men: Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Wagner, Goethe, Schiller, Kepler, etc.
    Well said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    You can't be serious.
    I think humor is critical for a healthy psychology, but making things too crass and infantile obviously wouldn't help. Only certain skits would be selected. In my dreams, we might also have open bar nights at the church (like a beer hall) to increase comradery and motivate our people to work together to do the jobs no one wants to do i.e. agriculture and home care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    I've seen people (i.e. Krishnamurti, pantheists) reduce god to a vague, lifeless concept, in which case it's better for people to retain their current anthropomorphic view of god.

    Also, neither Hitler nor Bormann were pantheistic.

    No one religion is fit for everyone in a nation. To each his own, as long as it doesn't conflict with the national interest.
    Fair enough.

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    The churches are losing their awakened sheep in droves to the growing pagan "movements", so it's obvious they're trying to lure people back in.

    This should be resisted entirely!

    And when you go pagan, you already have a faith that stretches through all of Europe, connecting all peoples north to south, east to west. So efforts should be put into this.

    The 'ideological' connection of paganism and "Folkism" (if you will, the worship of the people, culture, history etc, which in paganism is inseperable anyway) you can easily find in Ludendorff's works, it's his speciality. He was much more "radical" in both aspects than any other NS (except Himmler maybe). Apart from that Rosenberg doubted his own courage and was cut short in his efforts, he wasnt entirely hostile to the idea to fundamentally reform faith (not christianity).

    Speaking of Ludendorff, he called the Reichskonkordat "Hitler's treason" (rightfully btw), it's this Reichskonkordat that transformed (and hijacked) NS to a pseudo-positive-christianity-substitute instead of breaking free from the Vatikan (although to some degree it produces some amusement to this day since it's the document that enforces continued German bishops/congregations in the now-Poland territories) and christianity. At least "for the public". On the other hand Himmler had unlimited resources and unlimited free hand to pursue the pagan approach to overcome christianity, not over night but in a process of 1-2 generations.

    It's these people who should serve as inspiration for a reformation of faith and spirituality instead of adding another machine to the dead corpse that is christianity to keep it "alive". Even if it will offend some people, throughout Europe (Germanic Europe that is) actual practicing christians is well below 10%, the further north you go the fewer it becomes, Denmark was around 2%, Norway 4%, Germany (north; south is a different topic) around 7%. It's not even worth anymore to think twice not to offend them. Most of them go to church on "occasions" only anyway, out of habit rather than belief. Time to bury the corpse.

    But I like your approach to fill this transition with things of meaning for our peoples, there's some good ideas in this collection which a faith-focused alternate vision for our future could rally around, make people curious (despite the low count for christianity, alternatives arent that readily available or visible).

    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    The European Faith and the Global Faith

    In addition to every country's nationalism and people being a faith in itself, there also ought to be a general "European Faith" and "Global Faith" to which we all hold dear to our hearts. We'd be putting our 'faith' in all European mankind, in addition to all humanity. The subject matter of the sermons would be science, philosophy and real history. We'd discuss European and global goals, such as continental and planetary sustainability, and one day, colonizing the solar system.



    Let's all work together to create a better world.















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