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Thread: European Nationalist Faith

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    The churches are losing their awakened sheep in droves to the growing pagan "movements", so it's obvious they're trying to lure people back in.

    This should be resisted entirely!

    And when you go pagan, you already have a faith that stretches through all of Europe, connecting all peoples north to south, east to west. So efforts should be put into this.

    The 'ideological' connection of paganism and "Folkism" (if you will, the worship of the people, culture, history etc, which in paganism is inseperable anyway) you can easily find in Ludendorff's works, it's his speciality. He was much more "radical" in both aspects than any other NS (except Himmler maybe). Apart from that Rosenberg doubted his own courage and was cut short in his efforts, he wasnt entirely hostile to the idea to fundamentally reform faith (not christianity).

    Speaking of Ludendorff, he called the Reichskonkordat "Hitler's treason" (rightfully btw), it's this Reichskonkordat that transformed (and hijacked) NS to a pseudo-positive-christianity-substitute instead of breaking free from the Vatikan (although to some degree it produces some amusement to this day since it's the document that enforces continued German bishops/congregations in the now-Poland territories) and christianity. At least "for the public". On the other hand Himmler had unlimited resources and unlimited free hand to pursue the pagan approach to overcome christianity, not over night but in a process of 1-2 generations.

    It's these people who should serve as inspiration for a reformation of faith and spirituality instead of adding another machine to the dead corpse that is christianity to keep it "alive". Even if it will offend some people, throughout Europe (Germanic Europe that is) actual practicing christians is well below 10%, the further north you go the fewer it becomes, Denmark was around 2%, Norway 4%, Germany (north; south is a different topic) around 7%. It's not even worth anymore to think twice not to offend them. Most of them go to church on "occasions" only anyway, out of habit rather than belief. Time to bury the corpse.

    But I like your approach to fill this transition with things of meaning for our peoples, there's some good ideas in this collection which a faith-focused alternate vision for our future could rally around, make people curious (despite the low count for christianity, alternatives arent that readily available or visible).

    Generally agreed and thank you. I believe in attempting to extend an olive branch to the Christians, so we can share the buildings and work together, however unrealistic this may be.

    Skadi is much more pro-pagan than The Phora. The Christians over there were pretty critical of my proposal lol:

    http://www.thephora.net/forum/showth...14#post1441314

    Ideally, I'd prefer if the paganism specific to each European country became the dominant folklore of that country (instead of Christianity).

    I agree with Caesar's Messiah that Christianity was a Roman psycho-op warfare program that was originally intended for Jews alone (creating a pacifist instead of militarist Jewish messiah), until Emperor Constantine legalized it (Edict of Milan), for those who lived outside the Near East:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndAnzWduwP8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmEScIUcvz0

    Then the Roman emperors made it the only legal religion (Edict of Thessalonica) and eradicated all the indigenous religions of Europe in order to better control us. Paganism is more nationalist whereas Christianity is a united nations, universal creed.

    I believe in trying to be respectful towards them, so we can work together.
    Last edited by John Smithwick; Friday, December 21st, 2018 at 06:44 AM. Reason: clarifications

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    I know this is a Germanic only forum, however, on the subject of a new nationalist religion and this being the comparative religion subforum, I feel it's worthwhile examining what the French did during the French Revolution. It's unfortunate that Hitler didn't identify more with Robespierre, instead of Napoleon (the Christian):

    The French Faith and Church



    Edward Moran's painting of the unveiling of the Statue of Liberty

    The French people ought to have a French Faith, where real history, philosophy, science, as well as French culture and nationalism will be celebrated. Needless to say, every nation should have an equivalent version. There should also be a "Global Faith" and general "European Faith" to which we all subscribe.

    The Catholic Church in France should be a part of this effort. Interestingly, there was once a type of 'new age" French Faith called the Festival of the Supreme Being:

    Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia

    The Cult of the Supreme Being (French: Culte de l'Être suprême) [note 1] was a form of deism established in France by Maximilien Robespierre during the French Revolution. It was intended to become the state religion of the new French Republic and a replacement for Roman Catholicism and its rival, the Cult of Reason.
    The day forever fortunate has arrived, which the French people have consecrated to the Supreme Being. Never has the world which He created offered to Him a spectacle so worthy of His notice. He has seen reigning on the earth tyranny, crime, and imposture. He sees at this moment a whole nation, grappling with all the oppressions of the human race, suspend the course of its heroic labors to elevate its thoughts and vows toward the great Being who has given it the mission it has undertaken and the strength to accomplish it.

    Is it not He whose immortal hand, engraving on the heart of man the code of justice and equality, has written there the death sentence of tyrants? Is it not He who, from the beginning of time, decreed for all the ages and for all peoples liberty, good faith, and justice?

    He did not create kings to devour the human race. He did not create priests to harness us, like vile animals, to the chariots of kings and to give to the world examples of baseness, pride, perfidy, avarice, debauchery, and falsehood. He created the universe to proclaim His power. He created men to help each other, to love each other mutually, and to attain to happiness by the way of virtue.

    It is He who implanted in the breast of the triumphant oppressor remorse and terror, and in the heart of the oppressed and innocent calmness and fortitude. It is He who impels the just man to hate the evil one, and the evil man to respect the just one. It is He who adorns with modesty the brow of beauty, to make it yet more beautiful. It is He who makes the mother's heart beat with tenderness and joy. It is He who bathes with delicious tears the eyes of the son pressed to the bosom of his mother. It is He who silences the most imperious and tender passions before the sublime love of the fatherland. It is He who has covered nature with charms, riches, and majesty. All that is good is His work, or is Himself. Evil belongs to the depraved man who oppresses his fellow man or suffers him to be oppressed.

    The Author of Nature has bound all mortals by a boundless chain of love and happiness. Perish the tyrants who have dared to break it!

    Republican Frenchmen, it is yours to purify the earth which they have soiled, and to recall to it the justice that they have banished! Liberty and virtue together came from the breast of Divinity. Neither can abide with mankind without the other.

    O generous People, would you triumph over all your enemies? Practice justice, and render the Divinity the only worship worthy of Him. O People, let us deliver ourselves today, under His auspices, to the just transports of a pure festivity. Tomorrow we shall return to the combat with vice and tyrants. We shall give to the world the example of republican virtues. And that will be to honor Him still.

    The monster which the genius of kings had vomited over France has gone back into nothingness. May all the crimes and all the misfortunes of the world disappear with it! Armed in turn with the daggers of fanaticism and the poisons of atheism, kings have always conspired to assassinate humanity. If they are able no longer to disfigure Divinity by superstition, to associate it with their crimes, they try to banish it from the earth, so that they may reign there alone with crime.

    O People, fear no more their sacrilegious plots! They can no more snatch the world from the breast of its Author than remorse from their own hearts. Unfortunate ones, uplift your eyes toward heaven! Heroes of the fatherland, your generous devotion is not a brilliant madness. If the satellites of tyranny can assassinate you, it is not in their power entirely to destroy you. Man, whoever thou mayest be, thou canst still conceive high thoughts for thyself. Thou canst bind thy fleeting life to God, and to immortality. Let nature seize again all her splendor, and wisdom all her empire! The Supreme Being has not been annihilated.

    It is wisdom above all that our guilty enemies would drive from the republic. To wisdom alone it is given to strengthen the prosperity of empires. It is for her to guarantee to us the rewards of our courage. Let us associate wisdom, then, with all our enterprises. Let us be grave and discreet in all our deliberations, as men who are providing for the interests of the world. Let us be ardent and obstinate in our anger against conspiring tyrants, imperturbable in dangers, patient in labors, terrible in striking back, modest and vigilant in successes. Let us be generous toward the good, compassionate with the unfortunate, inexorable with the evil, just toward every one. Let us not count on an unmixed prosperity, and on triumphs without attacks, nor on all that depends on fortune or the perversity of others. Sole, but infallible guarantors of our independence, let us crush the impious league of kings by the grandeur of our character, even more than by the strength of our arms.

    Frenchmen, you war against kings; you are therefore worthy to honor Divinity. Being of Beings, Author of Nature, the brutalized slave, the vile instrument of despotism, the perfidious and cruel aristocrat, outrages Thee by his very invocation of Thy name. But the defenders of liberty can give themselves up to Thee, and rest with confidence upon Thy paternal bosom. Being of Beings, we need not offer to Thee unjust prayers. Thou knowest Thy creatures, proceeding from Thy hands. Their needs do not escape Thy notice, more than their secret thoughts. Hatred of bad faith and tyranny burns in our hearts, with love of justice and the fatherland. Our blood flows for the cause of humanity. Behold our prayer. Behold our sacrifices. Behold the worship we offer Thee.
    Robespierre - 1794
    Let us always be respectful towards the French, and what's left of French North America. Vive la France et vive le Québec libre (!):

    Vive le Quebec libre - De Gaulle - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    On an interesting note, this is something Hitler intended Alfred Rosenberg to create for Germans:
    Except Hitler flat out rejected Der Mythus in his private conversations, also affirmed by Speer. It wasn't at all uncommon for NS adherents (and occultists) to claim that Hitler supported their initiative.

    "In this connection I refer to Dr Ley's articles in fairly sharp terms. Above all I stress to the Führer that Dr Ley invariably maintains that the Führer approves his articles and considers them the nonplus ultra of journalistic persuasive power. The Führer says with a chuckle that he has never read any of Dr Ley's articles, still less told him that he thought them good." - Goebbels, March 30, 1945

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    I agree; however, I would argue this decision by Hitler (which he implied at the Culture Convention in 1938) was a mistake. After essentially banning the German Faith Movement, his speeches became the "sermons" of an implied "German faith". When he recklessly started and lost that war, everything was lost with him.
    "The replacement of Christian ceremonies by pagan equivalents; the most favored pagan deity being the sun, as can be seen from the flag of the faith movement." This point is probably why it wasn't endorsed. Every other point is in full agreement with NS philosophy.

    The energies that result from the contemplation of realities (attempted through rituals, ceremonies, rites, runes, etc.) must have an effect on the physical body, not just emotion and consciousness (soul/spirit). "Healthy mind in a healthy body." A degenerate body is not made more beautiful by a radiant spirit. The key motif in SS literature is reconciling the body, soul, and spirit and eliminating the artificial division imposed by the churches.

    Also consider this quote from Julian:

    The philosophers bid us imitate the gods so far as we can, and they teach us that this imitation consists in the contemplation of realities. And that this sort of study is remote from passion and is indeed based on freedom from passion, is, I suppose, evident, even without my saying it. In proportion then as we, having been assigned to the contemplation of realities, attain to freedom from passion, in so far do we become like God.
    It's not sufficient to be a Stoic. One must also have a trained body and attain resistance to physical pain like a Spartan. One should also avoid feeling emotionally vulnerable, offended, etc.

    Actually, after he came into power, his speeches gradually dropped Christianity for his own private notions, as early as 1936. But it's true that they became more prominent around 1938.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    The idea of replacing the Bible with Mein Kampf is largely nonsense (the reference for that claim is very questionable). Deep down Hitler and Rosenberg wanted Christianity evolved (IMO), but they realized the futility of that effort and placated it. They'd never been given the time of day otherwise.
    Both the Bible and Mein Kampf contain maxims of eternal validity, but Mein Kampf has done a better job of placing them into a suitable context and making them more practicable, being based on observation and reason. Yet it's a political book and can never substitute for a religious book.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    Even Rosenberg maintained he was Christian:

    Gnostic Origins of Alfred Rosenberg's Thought - Institute of Historical Review
    None of the leading NS ideologues explicitly identified as Christian. They were advised to remain in the churches to avoid stirring up controversy and so that Hitler wouldn't lose supporters. They identified with Jesus, but not with the rest of Christianity.

    "Among the major works to appear reinterpreting the National Socialist movement in such terms are Pauwels and Bergiers' The Morning of the Magician (in French, and translated into many languages), Ravenscroft's The Spear of Destiny and The Cup of Destiny and Angebert's The Occult and the Third Reich." All rubbish. Bergier in particular was a Jew who had a revolutionary as a parent. It's usually implied that Hoerbiger's theories were occult. In what way? He was struck by an epiphany while observing the moon then believed it to be validated by a subsequent dream. That's not different from leaving a decision up to a coin toss. Barely occult.

    It's true that Rosenberg mentioned gnostics and dissident sects in his books, but that's just paying homage to the past, not an endorsement (IMO the teachings found in the Nag Hammadi library are arguably more dangerous than mainstream Christianity. Both teach that god made a fallen world, except the gnostic version suggests that an evil god has usurped god. All they've done is relegate Jahwe to the role of the Christian's Satan. Just by recognizing that this evil god exists, the universe ends up being fatally flawed. There are no evil gods in existence). Besides, Marcion wasn't even a gnostic.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    With respect to Rosenberg's book, Hitler said it was:

    The existing churches ought to be reformed with a sensible new platform that honours the heritage of the German people. The Lutheran churches especially should be renamed "The German Church."
    If he ever said this, he obviously changed his mind by June 7, 1942 (Table Talks), where he describes his attempts to establish a Bishop of the Reich as a catastrophic mistake he realized just in time.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    He ruined our chances of having an ethnic nationalist faith through his insane war, by causing a backlash against nationalism, and yet he was also the last major Western leader to seriously address the religious question.
    Ugh I've read this kind of propagandist narrative too many times. The backlash against nationalism existed long before Hitler (see the Marxists) and he did not intend for a worldwide war. He would have confined himself to continental (European) war and limited territorial conflicts. He welcomed the prospect of limited wars in order to avoid the decline from enjoying too much peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    Perhaps eventually we won't need the churches, as much as we do now:
    From Otto Wagener's memoirs:

    "Of course, if we wanted to lead these young people up a mountain merely to sing the same kind of stupid songs women and men sing in the churches to this day, and if we then wished to worship these fires in the same way old people worship carved wooden figures and painted pictures or even fake relics in those same churches–then those people would be right who say: it would be better to let the children go to the enclosed houses of God; at least they won’t catch cold."

    This is consistent with what Hitler says elsewhere in these memoirs:

    "None of the religions of antiquity, no Negroid idolatry, not even the most primitive sects of the Mohammedan, Indian, or Chinese religions has created so many gods and auxilary deities as the Roman Church. And yet their choirs join in singing from the Book of Moses: ‘Thou shalt have no other gods before me.’ But let’s drop it; it’s too stupid."

    Which itself is consistent with his table talk discourse on the African religion and Transubstantiation.

    _____

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Speaking of Ludendorff, he called the Reichskonkordat "Hitler's treason" (rightfully btw), it's this Reichskonkordat that transformed (and hijacked) NS to a pseudo-positive-christianity-substitute instead of breaking free from the Vatikan (although to some degree it produces some amusement to this day since it's the document that enforces continued German bishops/congregations in the now-Poland territories) and christianity. At least "for the public". On the other hand Himmler had unlimited resources and unlimited free hand to pursue the pagan approach to overcome christianity, not over night but in a process of 1-2 generations.
    Source for Ludendorff's statement?

    So Hitler would have been better off pulling a Stalin by ruthlessly silencing church dissent? Perhaps that would have made it easier to maintain an united NS view, but how would it have affected the defeatist Werhmacht and inept Air Force, which performed poorly compared to Hitler's SS and party?

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    It's these people who should serve as inspiration for a reformation of faith and spirituality instead of adding another machine to the dead corpse that is christianity to keep it "alive". Even if it will offend some people, throughout Europe (Germanic Europe that is) actual practicing christians is well below 10%, the further north you go the fewer it becomes, Denmark was around 2%, Norway 4%, Germany (north; south is a different topic) around 7%. It's not even worth anymore to think twice not to offend them. Most of them go to church on "occasions" only anyway, out of habit rather than belief. Time to bury the corpse.
    Himmler was undoubtedly a realist (like Stalin) and more fairer than Hitler in his views of nobility (which in Himmler's view shouldn't be strictly hereditary), but he was also a pragmatist (inspired by Jesuits, by his own public admission).

    “The Power which always wills the bad, and always works the good.” - Goethe's Faust

    Although Himmler still resolutely represented the well-being and interests of the German people when he tried to mediate Jewish emancipation with Masur under Hitler's nose, he should have realized that it does no good to effect a partial evacuation. The Jews must be persuaded to leave of their own accord by eliminating the conditions that allow them to maintain their way of life.

    Nonetheless, those are valid statistical points. Hitler and Bormann said similarly. I'll concede to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    And when you go pagan, you already have a faith that stretches through all of Europe, connecting all peoples north to south, east to west. So efforts should be put into this.
    The problem is that it presently lacks a "basis of knowledge", which has been systematically destroyed by Christianity. By going pagan, you're left with symbols and concepts which will take centuries to re-infuse with the necessary energy. The immediate concern should be defense of the religious principle and setting up a bulwark against atheism.

    _____

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    My idea is not to attack Christianity and attempt replacing its belief system, but to better organize and inspire our folk via reforming institutions like the Church of England and Church of Scotland (we'd supplement the Christianity present with nationalist sermons, perhaps outside Christian hours to start (there would also be Asatru sermons, outside Christian hours)). People could believe in whichever system, but emphasis would be placed on having faith in our people and nation above all.
    I see. Well it still comes off as a compromise measure, would be difficult to find supporters from both camps.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    I think humor is critical for a healthy psychology, but making things too crass and infantile obviously wouldn't help. Only certain skits would be selected. In my dreams, we might also have open bar nights at the church (like a beer hall) to increase comradery and motivate our people to work together to do the jobs no one wants to do i.e. agriculture and home care.
    That's the point I wanted to make. It needs to be the right kind of humor. Most of those shows you listed are for adults, Americanized, and are hardly qualified to be called comedy.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    The Church of England is hinting that's it's moving towards something like what I describe above:
    Velvet makes a good point here. The Church is merely resorting to a tried and true strategy it employed centuries ago to win over the Germans, by making concessions to the pagan elements. Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but this still plays into the interfaith/one world religion agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    I'm not Christian (never been to church for anything other than weddings and funerals; never baptized) and I generally feel the same way you do.

    A loose reference to people living in the British Isles.

    The Church of England is hinting that's it's moving towards something like what I describe above:

    Church of England creating 'pagan church' to recruit members - Telegraph
    Richard Dawkins admits he is a 'cultural Anglican' - Telegraph
    Are you Wiccan or Pagan? The Church of England has a place for you - GodDiscussion.com
    Church of England 'owes Darwin an apology' | The Independent
    The Traditionalist Prince of Wales | The American Conservative
    The Queen is a true Christian leader. But what about Prince Charles
    You need to be careful with describing the residents of the British Isles as being 'British'. Apart from the immigrant issue Ireland is geographically within the British Isles but the vast majority of people living in the Republic of Ireland would strongly object to being called 'British'.
    Forget the 'pagan church' thing. That was something which was first mooted over 5 years ago and never took off. It was just a very sneaky and in my opinion a dishonest way of winning new converts. The Church of England is desperate to hold on to its wealth and thus will try practically any gimmick to win new recruits and enhance its coffers even further.

    In addition to every country's nationalism and people being a faith in itself, there also ought to be a general "European Faith" and "Global Faith" to which we all
    hold dear to our hearts
    . We'd be putting our 'faith' in all European mankind, in addition to all humanity.
    The subject matter of the sermons would be science, philosophy and real history. We'd discuss European and global goals, such as continental and planetary sustainability, and one day, colonizing the solar system.
    There is not and never has been a single European people and there can never be a single 'European Faith' and I shudder at the thought of a 'Global Faith'. I really can't see where you are going with this at all or what your objective is. It is only in recent times that the Germanic peoples have managed to free themselves from the shackles of a 'global faith' (Christianity) and rediscovered their native ancestral religions. We do not need to go through this experience yet again!
    Different races and peoples have different origin myths and different ways of viewing the world and their place in it. Your 'one shoe size fits all' contradicts everything that I stand for.
    We don't need and indeed should not contemplate "colonising the solar system" when man has made such a dreadful mess on planet earth. We do not need to contaminate the rest of the solar system. He needs to rebalance himself and put himself right with Mother Earth. Part of this process involves a general cull of the population of the earth. If not entered into voluntarily then Mother Earth will do this for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    If he ever said this, he obviously changed his mind by June 7, 1942 (Table Talks), where he describes his attempts to establish a Bishop of the Reich as a catastrophic mistake he realized just in time.
    The Table Talks are not exactly a reliable source. Although there are many tempting quotes in them, they shouldnt be used without other sources

    Ugh I've read this kind of propagandist narrative too many times. The backlash against nationalism existed long before Hitler (see the Marxists) and he did not intend for a worldwide war.
    Indeed, in fact the "philosophical revolt" against nations (the general trend against empires with arbitrary populations) was an integral part of (globalist) Marxism already, and specially the backlash against an independent Germany was born together with the Reich in 1871.

    He would have confined himself to continental (European) war and limited territorial conflicts. He welcomed the prospect of limited wars in order to avoid the decline from enjoying too much peace.
    The territorital conflicts had a goal, and once this goal had been achieved, there would be no more wars just for the sake of wars.



    Source for Ludendorff's statement?
    Erich Ludendorff - Hitlers Verrat der Deutschen an den römischen Papst
    Faksimile of the 1931 edition, but Hitler's "collusion" with the Roman Church started earlier already. The Reichskonkordat, which sold Germany's souls to the Vatican was struck right after Hitler took power, in June 1933. Ludendorff warned against this wholesale sellout of (until then, if the Reich was to be defined in religious terms, Protestant) Germany to Rome once more.

    https://ia600605.us.archive.org/3/it...canFraktur.pdf
    (Other formats)

    So Hitler would have been better off pulling a Stalin by ruthlessly silencing church dissent?
    Quite the opposite. Hitler destroyed through his loyalty to and dependency on the Vatican a lot of support he originally had among all the various folkish, nationalist or at least anti-communist movements by shutting them down and promoting this nonsense of "positive christianity" (which is merely Catholicism in disguise).

    Take the Waldolf-Movement of Steiner as an example. They promoted the healthy spirit in a healthy body part, an ideological upbringing of children with the love for one's own people etc, but they still were bullied and at some point most of them were shut down. Why? Total nonsense. The Waldorf schools were the perfect, "non-political" expression of what was otherwisely promoted by NS. But they also were fundamentally anti-christian, specially anti-Catholic. Hitler owed, specially during the war, his position (outside perception) solely to the Vatican, and he continued to pour out the babies (the pillars of NS ideology) with the bath later on.

    Himmler was undoubtedly a realist (like Stalin) and more fairer than Hitler in his views of nobility (which in Himmler's view shouldn't be strictly hereditary), but he was also a pragmatist (inspired by Jesuits, by his own public admission).
    Inspired yes, but not more.


    Although Himmler still resolutely represented the well-being and interests of the German people when he tried to mediate Jewish emancipation with Masur under Hitler's nose, he should have realized that it does no good to effect a partial evacuation. The Jews must be persuaded to leave of their own accord by eliminating the conditions that allow them to maintain their way of life.
    Absolutely, but this was 1945, when Germany already was in ruins. He tried to establish a deal so that Germany would not be completely destroyed. Certainly some kind of panic, as he watched his land and people perish in Hellstorms consuming one city after another.

    It is not unlikely that Himmler could even have reached something, so the Brits murdered him (he didnt commit suicide), and all the concessions were in vein.

    It's sort of ironic that Hitler turned against him considering that Hitler/NS Germany had worked throughout the 30s with the Jewish Agency to get the Jews to Palestine, which the Brits however prevented by denying them immigration (despite the Balfour agreement that made the Brits take Palestine for the Jews in the first place), which must be regarded as yet another war tactic against Germany.


    The problem is that it presently lacks a "basis of knowledge", which has been systematically destroyed by Christianity. By going pagan, you're left with symbols and concepts which will take centuries to re-infuse with the necessary energy. The immediate concern should be defense of the religious principle and setting up a bulwark against atheism.
    Which is nonsense, really. The body of knowledge is rather rich, and there are hundreds of thousands(!) Pagans everywhere. No, they dont have a "unified church", they dont have a "Pagan Pope" or other such nonsense, but they have a faith.

    Besides, another thing which I believe stirred the hate against Germany is that we have Pagan movements since the mid 1800s, and the Kaiser (specially W.II) "failed" to battle them, outlaw them or whatever the churches had wished for, instead he said "jeder soll nach seiner Fasson glücklich werden", refusing to define/confine the Reich to one or another christian doctrine. The entire "Blut und Boden" (also mid 1800s, before there even was a Reich) awakening was inherently pagan in nature, the guilds sang songs "we want to be pagan again" etc.

    This already IS centuries old. Instead of insisting on "christian flavoured" religion, we should rather promote Paganism.

    I understand that this topic is much more difficult for America, but America's trouble should not and cannot be a concern for the already very lively Pagan Europe.


    Velvet makes a good point here. The Church is merely resorting to a tried and true strategy it employed centuries ago to win over the Germans, by making concessions to the pagan elements. Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but this still plays into the interfaith/one world religion agenda.
    Indeed, and it's a very important thing to keep an eye on, what the church (and specially the Jesuits in the background) are doing to lure people back into their trap.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick
    I agree with Caesar's Messiah that Christianity was a Roman psycho-op warfare program that was originally intended for Jews alone (creating a pacifist instead of militarist Jewish messiah), until Emperor Constantine legalized it (Edict of Milan)
    Actually, it was vice versa, it was a Jewish invention to bring down the Roman Empire as revenge for the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE. The entire "story" of the gospels is in raw form contained in Paul's letters, the oldest gospel dates well into the early 2d century only. It worked incredibly well, this invented "religion" trashed everything in its way, generated a very Jewish-in-nature absolute hatred against everything else, became "state religion" in 380 CE and in 476 CE the Roman Empire ceased to exist (no, the Byzantine Empire is not the Roman Empire). There was for centuries only this freak show Vatican, and only in the 8th century, with the Frankish deal with the Vatican to conquer all of Europe for the Pope, a "rebirth" of the now Catholic "Roman Empire" came about.

    In "church written history" this of course reads a bit different, but this church written "history" is mostly a product of a Frankish bishop from the 12th century. Subsequent fiction stories added to the fairy tale of the "christian middle ages".

    It's usualy ignored that most of Germania never belonged to the Roman Empire, and thus were never affected by the state religion stuff etc. Germania, Scandinavia and the Baltics were brutally conquered through the Franks only (and then christianised Saxons later, joining the slaughter of fellow Europeans). "Christian history" here starts only in the 12th century, too. There is not a single monastery, church or other trace of Christianity before the 12th. Frisia tried to kick them out as late as the 1400s, which ended with the partition of Frisia into West (Geldern, then under Spanish rule) and East (Saxon / Frankish pawns rule), which is the status still today. Also Sweden tried to get rid off christianity again somewhen 1500s, with no success though.

    Paganism isnt gone so long as is usually claimed, and all of it survived in the folk traditions and customs. There's only a very thin layer on it, and it breaks through ever since the grip of the Vatican (thanks French Revolution, but for nothing else) was broken. Instead of talking it away, we should support and promote its rebirth with everything we could!
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    "The replacement of Christian ceremonies by pagan equivalents; the most favored pagan deity being the sun, as can be seen from the flag of the faith movement." This point is probably why it wasn't endorsed. Every other point is in full agreement with NS philosophy.
    I generally agree with everything you said above (well said), except this point. I think he suppressed/banned the German Faith Movement so that he wouldn't have a second voice in Germany arguing in favor of the German volk. He did the same thing to Luddendorf's movement. By eliminating these movements and endorsing Positive Christianity, he robbed us of having an organized voice for our folk (outside his voice).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuotans Krieger View Post
    You need to be careful with describing the residents of the British Isles as being 'British'. Apart from the immigrant issue Ireland is geographically within the British Isles but the vast majority of people living in the Republic of Ireland would strongly object to being called 'British'.
    Well said. I'm hoping the Irish (despite everything) will eventually warm to the term. They have very justified grievances against the UK, but hopefully there is some term that describes us all - Anglo perhaps? Celtic? Nordic? Germanic (?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuotans Krieger View Post
    There is not and never has been a single European people and there can never be a single 'European Faith' and I shudder at the thought of a 'Global Faith'. I really can't see where you are going with this at all or what your objective is. It is only in recent times that the Germanic peoples have managed to free themselves from the shackles of a 'global faith' (Christianity) and rediscovered their native ancestral religions. We do not need to go through this experience yet again!
    Different races and peoples have different origin myths and different ways of viewing the world and their place in it. Your 'one shoe size fits all' contradicts everything that I stand for.
    Well said. The European Faith and Global Faith (in my mind) would just be something we pay lip service to: we live in Europe (or its colonies); we're humans living here on earth ... we identify with that much and agree to be that cooperative, but at the end of the day, we hold true to our own people and nation(s).

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Actually, it was vice versa, it was a Jewish invention to bring down the Roman Empire as revenge for the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE.
    I generally agree with everything you said in your previous post (really well said), but I do think Joseph Atwill's take hits the nail on the head (in terms of the initiation of Christianity).

    Joseph Atwill Interview - YouTube

    Certainly there would have been Jewish collaborators who assisted with the creation of the New Testament, but it was largely a Roman effort (Flavian Dynasty) as a result of the First Jewish Roman War. There are other academics who endorse this idea:

    Dr Rod Blackhurst



    Rome had all the power and won the war. They paid Rabbis to endorse the New Testament, hoping it would stop future Jewish rebellion. It wasn't until the 4th century, as you mentioned, that the Roman emperors saw an opportunity to foist that psych-op program onto the European people, using the Jews as leverage (they were made the only legal money lenders).

    With the Roman emperors and monarchies who came after gone now, it certainly seems like the whole thing was a Jewish trick, and Jews today, probably more than any other, are trying to keep Christianity alive so that Europeans remain contained under a Middle Eastern Semitic spell, but those days are numbered.

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    I finished work at 11, and was drunk by midnight, and started replying to this thread when I did, so if my answers aren't clear, I'll clean them up and expand on them around xmas, as I work long hours for the next several days. This hobby is like a second job. I'm Unconditioned Canuck from SF; John Smithwick from VNN and White Nations; Jack Fry from the Phora ... I just want to make sure my faith is backed up on several forums because the feds took down SF last year (temporarily). I've always wanted to go to a church but was never taken as a kid (thankfully) and today want one where I can be with my own people and nation, to celebrate our kind. It's a travesty this isn't available today. I'll send you some money for my posts here. Cheers, and thank you for allowing me to be here. Thank you for your forum and the replies in this thread, ... and bye for now.

    I'll end with some music ... if only they explicitly referenced our Pagan heaven in this first song, and a Pagan city where we congregate in the second :




    At least this one is explicitly about a Pagan Goddess :

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smithwick View Post
    The liberalism of the boomer generation, and the generations after, was a reaction to WWII+I in my opinion. We can at least be grateful that the later generations didn't get into another massive European war (not that the prior generations had any serious voice or means of control over the elitist pigs who were responsible).

    As for the doom among identitarian Germanics and other European people, it's well rationalized but we must not give up hope.

    What I've always wanted to find within our circles is someone willing to deliver weekly sermons for our ethnic group, to motivate and inspire us, build community, focus us, etc.

    The "faith" would be "faith in our people and nations". That's what the Jews have. Our people have no voice, no focal point. We need this.

    Well, if you can't find someone who's providing what you want, you have to do it yourself .
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    We need a reservation system for our people and our own ethnic-nationalist faith, where we'll have sermons about our people and nations, real history, science, philosophy, etc., in addition to our older religions. Throw in some open bar nights, comedy club hours, music and dance, etc., and it'll be a cracker barrel of good times lol.

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