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Thread: The American-European Dilemma

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    The American-European Dilemma

    The United States Of America have been the dominant world superpower for nearly over 70 years. This American world hegemony however seems to be in decline, or at least less strong, when compared to its competitors.

    We, as European people and nations, are naturally aligned with the United States. We share many cultural and racial similarities, and they even share our roots. after the Second World War, we seemed to have found the ideal ally in America.

    The United States offered us two great benefits: funds to rebuild ourselves through the Marshall Aid and safety from the threat of communism through military alliance. Since no better offer was on the table, we as Europeans were happy to align ourselves with the United States.

    In a way this alliance still holds to this day when we look at NATO and our diplomatic relationship. The question is, should it? Since the fall of the Soviet Union one can wonder why Europeans have not chosen to disengage from the Americans and have taken a more distant approach.

    It seems clear that the first 45 years of alliance with the US seemed beneficial to us, can we say the last 25 were as well?America’s Foreign Policy and the problems that follow.

    One of the key reasons why being in alliance with America a terrible idea, is their disastrous foreign policy. The negative consequences it creates for us at home are no valid sacrifice for the lack of results they produce abroad.

    A prime example is the Syrian civil war, where factions backed, supplied and supported by the US, wreaked havoc against the Syrian government. The Americans told us this project would bring about a democratic Syria. In reality it only brought us around a million Syrians, mostly Arab and Muslim, who fled to Europe.

    Another prime example of American “help” near our region was when they decided to support, arm and back a small Libyan insurrection.Gaddafi, Libya’s president at the time, once warned us by saying; “There are millions of blacks who would come to the Mediterranean to cross to France and Italy, and Libya plays a role in security in the Mediterranean”. Thanks to US foreign policy, Libya is now a smoldering country which seems to be trapped in an eternal civil war.

    As foretold by the Libyan ex-president, millions are currently crossing its borders to gain illegal access into Europe. The American dream of a free and democratic Libya however still has not come to fruition.A somewhat same story can be told about Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq. When the American army goes in, the people over there flee to Europe. Wars such as these have created terrible consequences for the people in the affected regions and for our people here.

    We should want no association whatsoever with these wars and should actively prevent America from endangering us in such a way.Our current re-enactment of the Cold War with Russia seems like a particular problem where the Americans yet again aren’t helpful allies to have. They actively choose to keep provoking Russia on her borders by participating in NATO military exercises and by pilling up ever more economical sanctions, which hurts European businesses.

    Russia and America tend to side on opposite sides in any proxy war available, which yet again puts us as Europeans in an unpractical position. Russia, which could be a great ally to the European nations because of our shared values and culture, is now our so-called “enemy” because we have thrown our lot in with the Americans. Even though some European countries seem to actively participate in these acts, it is safe to assume that a Europe more independent of America would make better, smarter and safer decisions. It might even enable Europe to actively counter America’s destructive tendencies.


    American Culture

    As a logical result of further economic integration between the United States and Europe, there has been a far reaching exchange of cultures between the two. The American decadent consumer culture has contaminated Europe and is now deeply ingrained in its DNA. Concepts like ‘Black Friday’ or ‘24/7 Open’ are influencing our societies as we speak, and are being welcomed by many. Although only anecdotal examples of the consumer culture, they are illustrations of a society somewhat obsessed with consumption and instant gratification.

    The effects of these hyper capitalist concepts on our society are undoubtedly negative. Besides consumerism we are culturally enriched by the Americans through their entertainment and Hollywood films. While not all American entertainment is necessary bad, the influence and problems it transports should not be underestimated. Things like being politically correct, reparations, white privilege, gender-neutral or The Black Lives Matter movement seem to become transferred and relevant to our communities the moment they become a big thing in America.

    This is often aided by the popularity of American celebrities who get involved to propagandise these concepts. While we might never seem to have a Europe without American cultural influences, we ought to minimise the exposure of our population to it. The current American culture that is being fed to us through the media is empty, individualistic and degenerate. It has no place in Europe and should be treated as such.


    Being independent

    Being independent isn’t about hating the Americans because of their freedom and it’s not about wanting the worst for them. It is all about the consequences of being allied with such a country. Europe does not need the problems America creates, nor do its people. We know that the American foreign policy never seems to change no matter which party occupies the White House, and that we in Europe will receive a lot of collateral damage from any wars fought in adjacent regions.

    The Europeans would do well by taking a more positive stance towards Russia and a less amicable posture towards the United States. For the last 25 years American global hegemony has brought Europe nothing but damage and strained relationships with other countries. For the security and the future of Europe and our people, an ongoing destructive alliance with the worlds declining superpower just does not seem like the right move.

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    America is a great place to live based on both the economic and personal freedoms. However, you must keep in mind that Americans are very separated from the US federal government. Many American citizens simply don't know or care how the government behaves.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verđandi View Post

    The Europeans would do well by taking a more positive stance towards Russia and a less amicable posture towards the United States. For the last 25 years American global hegemony has brought Europe nothing but damage and strained relationships with other countries. For the security and the future of Europe and our people, an ongoing destructive alliance with the worlds declining superpower just does not seem like the right move.
    As some might know (already noticed); my thoughts about Russia and Russians are crystal clear.

    So here I will only say the next: If/then dealing with Russians ... you should always try look/see other side of wall. Meaning not only listening what they are saying, but ALWAYS also thinking what might be their real motivations & agendas. As the last ones are more important to know. Pure laying (like Putin did with his Crimea comments) are quite typical (= someway accepted) in Russians culture vs Europeans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    like Putin did with his Crimea comments
    Crimea is and was throughout the existence of Ukraine de facto Russian territory. This is not a lie but fact. One that is very inconvenient for the Western globalists and therefore is being ignored and lied away.

    Do you know what the alternative would have been, if Russia had not secured Sevastopol and the U.S., who had invested billions of Dollars (and snipers) to escalate the situation into civil war, had grabbed Ukraine including this military base? It would have meant TOTAL WAR on the mid east, flying over the Black Sea and NATO-Turkey (who had taken part, as they do now and take their chance to bomb Kurdish territories in Turkey, Syria and Iraq - widely ignored by the "West") to bomb Syria, Iraq and Iran to dust, with no one between to stop them, and while the mid east, and in the wake of it, Europe would be on fire too, Israel had grabbed huge chunks of Syria to realise the Yinon Plan for Greater Israel.

    Joe Biden told Yanukovich, the elected president, to walk out. Joe Biden told the guards to set free Timochenko (she was in prison for good reasons) who had nothing better to do than to call for a man-hunt on Yanukovich, even in word translated and aired in western tv, heating up the anyway hot situation in Ukraine. Joe Biden putched the "ultra-right-wing" Right Sector into power and more Dollars are pumped into propping up Ukraine militarily as an aggressor against Russia (the West is hellbent to bring about WW III), together they called for ethnic cleansing (genocide) of the Russian population in Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk.

    And while everyone looks the other way, the son of Joe Biden becomes CEO of Ukraine's biggest gas producer. Pure coincidence, of course...

    Well, FS, think of Russia what you will, but the truth is, if Russia had not secured Crimea/Sevastopol from western grabbing, we had WW III, and by now Europe would be either destroyed or under IS rule. Or both. Because this is the goal of the "West" / the globalists. Russia resists the feud gloves thrown at them time and again, and that is the only reason why there is no global war yet.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Crimea is and was throughout the existence of Ukraine de facto Russian territory. This is not a lie but fact. One that is very inconvenient for the Western globalists and therefore is being ignored and lied away.
    And something that is often conveniently forgotten is that the Crimea was only added to Ukraine during the Soviet era. With the purpose of using as a Trojan horse. Because it had a double goal, the short one was appeasing Ukrainians, the long term was increasing the Russian component of the Ukrainian demographics. But one must not forget that Crimea being ethically Russian was a relatively recent development, with it have been mostly a Tartar region with also a Crim-Gothic element. Until, if I remember correctly, Stalin had ethnically cleansed the area.
    The sense of honor is of so fine and delicate a nature that
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    cultivated by good examples and a refined education.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Crimea is and was throughout the existence of Ukraine de facto Russian territory. This is not a lie but fact. One that is very inconvenient for the Western globalists and therefore is being ignored and lied away.

    Do you know what the alternative would have been, if Russia had not secured Sevastopol and the U.S., who had invested billions of Dollars (and snipers) to escalate the situation into civil war, had grabbed Ukraine including this military base? It would have meant TOTAL WAR on the mid east, flying over the Black Sea and NATO-Turkey (who had taken part, as they do now and take their chance to bomb Kurdish territories in Turkey, Syria and Iraq - widely ignored by the "West") to bomb Syria, Iraq and Iran to dust, with no one between to stop them, and while the mid east, and in the wake of it, Europe would be on fire too, Israel had grabbed huge chunks of Syria to realise the Yinon Plan for Greater Israel.

    Joe Biden told Yanukovich, the elected president, to walk out. Joe Biden told the guards to set free Timochenko (she was in prison for good reasons) who had nothing better to do than to call for a man-hunt on Yanukovich, even in word translated and aired in western tv, heating up the anyway hot situation in Ukraine. Joe Biden putched the "ultra-right-wing" Right Sector into power and more Dollars are pumped into propping up Ukraine militarily as an aggressor against Russia (the West is hellbent to bring about WW III), together they called for ethnic cleansing (genocide) of the Russian population in Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk.

    And while everyone looks the other way, the son of Joe Biden becomes CEO of Ukraine's biggest gas producer. Pure coincidence, of course...

    Well, FS, think of Russia what you will, but the truth is, if Russia had not secured Crimea/Sevastopol from western grabbing, we had WW III, and by now Europe would be either destroyed or under IS rule. Or both. Because this is the goal of the "West" / the globalists. Russia resists the feud gloves thrown at them time and again, and that is the only reason why there is no global war yet.
    Won't change the fact that Putin directly lied about those green men (which I mentioned).

    What comes to rest ... if you don't share more than 1000km common land border with Russia; don't come to say me how to think about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    And something that is often conveniently forgotten is that the Crimea was only added to Ukraine during the Soviet era. With the purpose of using as a Trojan horse. Because it had a double goal, the short one was appeasing Ukrainians, the long term was increasing the Russian component of the Ukrainian demographics. But one must not forget that Crimea being ethically Russian was a relatively recent development, with it being mostly a Tartar region with also Crim-Gothic element. Until, if I remember correctly, Stalin had ethnically cleansed the area.
    While Stalin completed the job, the cleansing of the Crim-Goths as an ethnic group already began at the end of the 19th century. Catharina outlawed Crimea-Gothic as a local language and withdraw the settlement rights from them. Ukraine has always been the playball of everyone, of Russia as well as of Austria-Hungary, Poland-Lithuania and all other powers trying to dominate the Black Sea basically since forever. The Tatars have been placed there artificially as well, only some centuries earlier as a barrier against the Osman Empire, they arent "natives" of that region either.

    Ukraine as a state-like construct was invented only during the Russian Revolution, the "peoples' republic", the first "independent" state, was found only in november 1917. Before that the region never was independent in any way, and "real" independence they only accquired in 1991. Just to be fucked over tremendously not even 30 years later...

    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    Won't change the fact that Putin directly lied about those green men (which I mentioned).
    Ukraine sabotages infrastructure and commits acts of terror in Crimea, on "western" command. The West is lying all the time, but no one cares. When the boogyman Russia does or say anything and does not report their every plan so that the West can fuck them over, it's mimimi they're lying.

    While I understand the Finnish position on Russia, it would be vital for everyone to see who the aggressor currently is (hint: it's not Russia) and what goals these aggressions pursue.

    The enemies of the European peoples (on both sides of the Atlantic) reside in the West, in EU, in Washington, New York, the Pentagon, in NATO and in our own governments.

    Russia has a vital interest, for its own sake, in the existence and healthiness of Europe (not EU). The West is destroying Europe and our peoples.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
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    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    While Stalin completed the job, the cleansing of the Crim-Goths as an ethnic group already began at the end of the 19th century. Catharina outlawed Crimea-Gothic as a local language and withdraw the settlement rights from them.
    Which is why I talked about an element. Since had not been predominate for centuries.

    Ukraine has always been the playball of everyone, of Russia as well as of Austria-Hungary, Poland-Lithuania and all other powers trying to dominate the Black Sea basically since forever. The Tatars have been placed there artificially as well, only some centuries earlier as a barrier against the Osman Empire, they arent "natives" of that region either.
    I could have added more of the history of Ukraine to my post. But I wanted to keep it short and try to keep it as relevant to the present situation as possible without going back centuries. Since it has less to do with the present conflict there, how interesting it may be on its own.

    Now returning from the history lesson. A more independent policy towards Russia would be a good idea. Even more so considering that in the long run the USA might conclude that they need Russia in order to take on China. And revanchist feelings can only influence politics so much before more cold calculations take over. Even more so, if said feelings are not shared by a large part of the US population. However at the present any independent European policy towards Russia is based on spreading "European" values, obviously not shared by groups like Right-Sector.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Ukraine sabotages infrastructure and commits acts of terror in Crimea, on "western" command. The West is lying all the time, but no one cares. When the boogyman Russia does or say anything and does not report their every plan so that the West can fuck them over, it's mimimi they're lying.

    While I understand the Finnish position on Russia, it would be vital for everyone to see who the aggressor currently is (hint: it's not Russia) and what goals these aggressions pursue.

    The enemies of the European peoples (on both sides of the Atlantic) reside in the West, in EU, in Washington, New York, the Pentagon, in NATO and in our own governments.

    Russia has a vital interest, for its own sake, in the existence and healthiness of Europe (not EU). The West is destroying Europe and our peoples.
    I'm not defense USA. Yes, Uncle Sam have done lots of bad things/decisions ... like supporting Sovjet Union / Russians in WWII.
    Those still will not someway wash away what Russians have done. Not for me ... anyway.

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    American cultural influence and NATO membership are separate things. The latter is common sense. Trust Putin? LOL

    American culture produces very good stuff and some quite terrible stuff. Political correctness came from America and anti-nationalism came from Europe and they have become intertwined. How would you stop American influence on Europe? Blow up all the wi-fi transmitters? You can for me.

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