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Thread: Halloween Costumes

  1. #71
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontiersman
    Well, not all of them. A number of them are from Jewish backgrounds - including one of the major figures of the 'neo-Druid' movement. I've actually met an ex-Muslim neo-pagan as well. But, the great majority tend to either be ex-Protestant, or to a lesser extent ex-nominal-Roman Catholics - I have not met many ex-Eastern Catholics in the movement. Generally, the neo-pagan movement is very Jewish friendly, and as I've noted - very closely tied to the Holocaust industry (the Burning Times myth is a derivation of this very thing.) The one exception is the Asatru or Odinists, who tend towards anti-Jewish belief (speaking generally.)
    Indeed, which is why I think pagans need to stop talking about how screwed-up Christianity is. Your end of the forrest isnt much better!

    I'm going to give out candy instead of 'healthy snacks' this Halloween. It is parent's fault if they don't teach their children discipline and hygiene! That, and I like these chocolate eyeballs they have at the store... I can pretend they are my eyes and pop them out into the children's candy sacks.
    LOL! Yes, parents dont want to take responsibility anymore. There was an evengelical neighbor I had who used to pass out mini New Testaments on Halloween. Even as a Christian I find that pathetic!

  2. #72
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  3. #73
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    "During a period of time running roughly from about 1890 to 1940, scholars often alleged that primitive Christianity has been heavily influenced by Platonism, Stoicism, the pagan mystery religions, or other movements in the Hellenistic world....most Bible scholars regard the question a dead issue."
    --Ronald Nash The Gospels and the Greeks: Did the New Testament Borrow from Pagan Thought? pg. I

  4. #74
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    "It must not be uncritically assumed that the Mysteries always influenced Christianity, for it is not only possible but probable that in certain cases the influence moved in the opposite direction. In what T. R. Glover aptly called "the conflict of religions in the Early Roman Empire," it was to be expected that the hierophants of cults which were beginning to lose devotees to the growing Church should take steps to stem the tide. One of the surest ways would be to imitate the teaching of the Church by offering benefits comparable with those held out by Christianity. Thus, for example, one must doubtless interpret the change in the efficacy attributed to the rite of the taurobolium. In competing with Christianity, which promised eternal life to its adherents, the cult of Cybele officially or unofficially raised the efficacy of the blood bath from twenty years to eternity."
    --Bruce M. Metzger Historical and Literary Studies: Pagan, Jewish, and Christian

  5. #75
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    First of all, it is Feast of the Unconquered SUN. Birth of the Unconquered Son would just be the Christian Christmas. Second of all, it was only finally officialized that late, and had been practiced by centurions since they came into contact with Mithraists during their excursions along the frontier of the Eastern Empire.
    First off, no it wouldn't - because Roman Imperial authority did not equate nor control Christianity. Same with Constantine the Great making Sunday a legal holiday in the Roman Empire - he wasn't dictating to Christians, but making the Empire 'Christian friendly'. In fact, it is very likely that his initial conversion was not only by influence of his Celtic mother, but from his already Christian Gothic and Gaulish troops. The other fact - Christmas was already a Christian custom, as were many other elements of the Christian calendar. Later Councils would only make them universal or collate the various feasts onto one single date. Again, there are issues in using Protestant sources for the history of Christianity as their polemics often got in the way of rational thought.

    If Jesus even existed, and the Biblical account is to be trusted, it is likely he was born in October, given the description of where the shepherds had their flocks and what they were doing at the time of his birth.
    More Protestant anti-Roman rubbish. They can't even agree on their 'alternative date' - some say September, October (usually those trying to connect the 'birth in the manger' with Sukkot - nevermind the account specifies Roman taxation as the reason for the travel to Bethlehem, *not* a Jewish festival.) Others try the same silliness and try to place it in the late spring. The fact is that in Palestinian husbandry, they don't have 'barns' and hay to quarter the animals throughout the year. They simply have upper pastures and lower pastures - animals are grazed throughout the year. From the Evangelical record, no season can be specified as it does not mention either time of year, which pasture, etc. - the only indication even of date is the taxation of Augustus Caesar. Scholars are not in agreement as to the actual date. However, the Christian community did keep an oral tradition of the event, which was taken into consideration as to the placement of major feasts both for Christ and His Mother.

    The fact is, Roman Catholics encouraged many pagan instutions, such as the date of Christmas, the Christmas tree, Easter eggs and rabbits, to make Christinsanity more appealing to pagans. Of course, the principled pagans who did not submit were put to the sword by fine human beings like yourself. At least it's finally dying out. It's been 2000 years too long, but it's finally dying, especially among whites. Soon your only Catholic brethren will be brown hordes from Aztlan and turds from Africa who combine Catholicism with Voodoo.
    No facts there - the date of Christmas is Christian, not pagan. 'Easter eggs' have their origin in two events - the effog of the Paschal seder (symbolizing the Temple), and the miracle of St. Mary Magdalene before the emperor when the egg turned red in her hands. This is why the Eastern Churches preserved the custom that the Easter eggs are normally *red*. Rabbits is another issue - we might have a 'sanctified' custom there, either way the association of rabbits with Easter is quite late - though it might simply be tied to the fact that the rabbits are giving birth around that time. I'm guessing someone is depending again on Hyslop's 'Easter comes from Eostara' rather than the historical account that 'Easter' derives from "Eastern Holy-day" referring to Jerusalem and the place of the Ressurecton - the East.

    As for dying out - don't be too quick. Christianity is still one of the fastest growing religions in the world (matched only by Islam.) It is true that certain derivatives of Christianity are dying a just death: particularly liberal Protestant denominations. The explosion in the Third World is typically Pentecostalist and 'Indigenous sects' of Protestantism. However, Catholicism is growing in most countries - and Orthodoxy is exploding in growth, whether in Russia or the West. In the UK, most Christian sects are atrophying - because they left behind their Christianity. Orthodoxy in the UK has a 150% growth rate per year (Charismatics a 54% growth rate) - in the USA the growth rate is similar. This is typically *amongst Whites* as well. The 'falling away' from Christianity has leveled off, and many are simply reentering into the historic Christian religion rather than derivative sects. So - don't expect Christianity to do anything but stay around, and grow ... it's the reality of the situation.
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  6. #76
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog

    The fact is, Roman Catholics encouraged many pagan instutions, such as the date of Christmas, the Christmas tree, Easter eggs and rabbits, to make Christinsanity more appealing to pagans. Of course, the principled pagans who did not submit were put to the sword by fine human beings like yourself.
    Which is it, did Christianity destroy paganism or did it incorporate it? You pagans never seem to agree. :eyes

    And things like the christmas tree, easter eggs, etc are very irrelevant in the grand schemes of things. Does having a christmas tree, doing the practice of easter eggs, etc make one a pagan? Indeed this is the main fault of paganism, since it often lacks an actual doctrine it relies entirely on its rituals. Thus if the Christians start practicing those things, it must mean they stole it. Nevermind that a Christian can still be a Christian without a christmas tree, easter eggs, etc.(thus making this argument utterly irrelevant, since if Christianity did "steal it" it was largely for aesthetic and cultural reasons and not theology). But apparently paganism doesnt have that advantage, since its notorious for its lack of a theology, which is probably why it failed in the end.

    At least it's finally dying out. It's been 2000 years too long, but it's finally dying, especially among whites.
    And whats your proof of this hmmmn? All I ever hear to prove this is that people are not going to church. WOW! Theres a difference between being a churcher-goer and being a believer. Plus you seem to be totally ignorant of the revival of christianity in the post-Soviet world.

    Soon your only Catholic brethren will be brown hordes from Aztlan and turds from Africa who combine Catholicism with Voodoo.
    If that true, its because Europeans themselves are dying off, not because Europeans are no longer believing. Indeed this is the one aspect of Philip Jenkin's argument you never hear; he argues that the main focus of Christianity is moving to the third world due to a large extent because Europe's population continues to decline while the third world continues to grow. Jenkins also notes the revival of Christianity in Eastern Europe, but the population decline is still there. Although many still maintain that Europe will still remain the intellectual center of Christianity even as it spreads further into the 3rd world.

  7. #77
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontiersman

    As for dying out - don't be too quick. Christianity is still one of the fastest growing religions in the world (matched only by Islam.) It is true that certain derivatives of Christianity are dying a just death: particularly liberal Protestant denominations. The explosion in the Third World is typically Pentecostalist and 'Indigenous sects' of Protestantism. However, Catholicism is growing in most countries - and Orthodoxy is exploding in growth, whether in Russia or the West. In the UK, most Christian sects are atrophying - because they left behind their Christianity. Orthodoxy in the UK has a 150% growth rate per year (Charismatics a 54% growth rate) - in the USA the growth rate is similar. This is typically *amongst Whites* as well. The 'falling away' from Christianity has leveled off, and many are simply reentering into the historic Christian religion rather than derivative sects. So - don't expect Christianity to do anything but stay around, and grow ... it's the reality of the situation.
    Good work. Many people have noted the extrodinary growth of traditionalist Christianity in the post-Soviet world. In fact I recently read an article in Russian Life talking about how the Orthodox church and its teachings are going to be incorporated and play an important role in Russian education. So just by looking at Eastern Europe we can refute the myth that Christianity is dying in Europe. But as Jenkin states in his book(which ironically is often referred to as a source pointing to Christianity's demise in Europe) the problem is not necessarily that Christianity in Europe is dying, the big problem is that Europe itself is dying. Less Europeans mean less European Christians; more Third Worlders mean more Third World Christians. This is the part most people seem to ignore in Jenkin's book.

  8. #78
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    This link is to an outdated text circa 1920s - influenced again, by Protestant polemics. Pretty good if one is trying to make Fundie Prots out of us (Clap your hands if you love Cheeses! Praise Cheeses!).

    The other links provided are also either to outdated scholarship, or the *Far* from mainstream 'historical Jesus' crowd. Price, Shorto, and such are typical of folk like Pagels, Crossan, Funk and their ilk - generally in the pay of the Hebraists and their 'Noahide' idea, pushing Gnosticism and 'alternative Christianities' a la Spong. For every Koester at Harvard, we can raise one a Ervin from Harvard, or a Deschene from Brown, etc. Even the 'Jesus Seminar' school of Claremont U. has real scholars like Dr. Tarzi to match the rather un-academic scribblings of the 'historical Jesus' neo-Gnostics. (How un-academic? Considering the 'historical Jesus' movement is centered around the work of the Jesus Seminar, which *voted* for which statements they believed were truly attributable to Jesus based upon ... *feeling*.) The basic gist is the portrayal of Jesus as simply a Jewish teacher, and the Christian Christ as an invention of Paul based upon Pagan Mystery religions. There is a sort of 'circle jerk' of these 'Christianity is pagan/the Christian Jesus didn't exist' types in academia at present, yes - however they are far from mainstream and are not going unchallenged. There is some severe problems with their methodology, assumptions, where they start from, and in many cases what they accept as sources. At this point I'd shelve their books along with works by Baigent, Leigh, and Hancock. 'Conspiracy Theory' type stuff.
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  9. #79
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontiersman
    This link is to an outdated text circa 1920s - influenced again, by Protestant polemics. Pretty good if one is trying to make Fundie Prots out of us (Clap your hands if you love Cheeses! Praise Cheeses!).
    Getting back to what I posted above:

    "During a period of time running roughly from about 1890 to 1940, scholars often alleged that primitive Christianity has been heavily influenced by Platonism, Stoicism, the pagan mystery religions, or other movements in the Hellenistic world....most Bible scholars regard the question a dead issue."
    --Ronald Nash The Gospels and the Greeks: Did the New Testament Borrow from Pagan Thought? pg. I


    The other links provided are also either to outdated scholarship, or the *Far* from mainstream 'historical Jesus' crowd. Price, Shorto, and such are typical of folk like Pagels, Crossan, Funk and their ilk - generally in the pay of the Hebraists and their 'Noahide' idea, pushing Gnosticism and 'alternative Christianities' a la Spong. For every Koester at Harvard, we can raise one a Ervin from Harvard, or a Deschene from Brown, etc. Even the 'Jesus Seminar' school of Claremont U. has real scholars like Dr. Tarzi to match the rather un-academic scribblings of the 'historical Jesus' neo-Gnostics. (How un-academic? Considering the 'historical Jesus' movement is centered around the work of the Jesus Seminar, which *voted* for which statements they believed were truly attributable to Jesus based upon ... *feeling*.) The basic gist is the portrayal of Jesus as simply a Jewish teacher, and the Christian Christ as an invention of Paul based upon Pagan Mystery religions. There is a sort of 'circle jerk' of these 'Christianity is pagan/the Christian Jesus didn't exist' types in academia at present, yes - however they are far from mainstream and are not going unchallenged. There is some severe problems with their methodology, assumptions, where they start from, and in many cases what they accept as sources. At this point I'd shelve their books along with works by Baigent, Leigh, and Hancock. 'Conspiracy Theory' type stuff.
    Philip Jenkins refutes many of these scholars in his book Hidden Gospels: How the Quest for Jesus Lost Its Way.

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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontiersman
    As for dying out - don't be too quick. Christianity is still one of the fastest growing religions in the world (matched only by Islam.) It is true that certain derivatives of Christianity are dying a just death: particularly liberal Protestant denominations. The explosion in the Third World is typically Pentecostalist and 'Indigenous sects' of Protestantism. However, Catholicism is growing in most countries - and Orthodoxy is exploding in growth, whether in Russia or the West.
    Yes, and all the growth is in 3rd world countries among savages who randomly decided to add Christ to their pantheon of earth spirits and voodoo effigies.

    Here's how the list of church attendance looks, in percentages:

    Nigeria 89
    Ireland 84*
    Philippines 68
    N. Ireland 58*
    Puerto Rico 52
    South Africa 56
    Poland 55
    Portugal 47*
    Slovakia 47
    Mexico 46
    Italy 45*
    Dominican Republic 44
    Belgium 44*
    U.S.A. 44
    Turkey 43
    Peru 43
    India 42
    Canada 38*
    Brazil 36
    Netherlands 35*



    Venezuela 31
    Uruguay 31
    Austria 30*
    Chile 25
    Argentina 25
    Britain 27*
    Spain 25
    Solvenia 22
    Croatia 22
    Hungary 21*
    France 21*
    Romania 20*
    South Korea 14
    Switzerland 16
    Australia 16
    Lithuania 16
    W. Germany 14
    Czech Republic 14*
    Bulgaria 10*
    Ukraine 10



    Taiwan 11
    Moldova 10
    Georgia 10
    China 9
    Armenia 8
    Azerbaijan 6
    Serbia 7
    Montenegro 7
    Belarus 6
    Latvia 5
    Denmark 5*
    Norway 5
    East Germany 5
    Sweden 4
    Iceland 4*
    Finland 4
    Estonia 4
    Japan 3
    Russia 2

    http://www.umich.edu/~newsinfo/Relea.../r121097a.html

    So much for Orthodoxy's rapid growth, LOL. One of the few good things (perhaps the only good thing) Communism did was to eradicate the Christ plague.

    Notice that the whitest, most Nordic/Baltic countries are the least Christian.

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