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Thread: Halloween Costumes

  1. #31
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    Post AW: Re: Halloween Costumes

    This Halloween celebration might be very funny and authentic in America but seeing it spreading over to Europe makes me throw up
    The commerce promotes this stuff since some years over here and it looks as if it finally gets more and more attractive to the hedonist society. Now you can see verandas and balconies decorated with pumpkins everywhere, even in small villages. What an idiotic consumer mentality. If you ask anyone about Yul- or Summer solstice celebrations, which are traditional since 3,000 years, nobody knows what you are talking about.
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentilis
    If you wanted to get an original costume not expensive you'd have to travel to Tbilisi (Tiflis) during Tbilisoba.
    That is way too hard. The only way from here to get to Tbilisi is by the Russian aircompany of Aeroflot, who got the highest crash statistics in the world. Or taking the train from Helsingfors(Helsinki, Finnish capital), change train in first S:t Peterburg, and then change another time in Moscow, and then in Vladikavkaz. Or you could simply walk .
    I can inform you that I'm currently surrounded by military men.

    -A comrade from Moscow over the phone

    http://tov.lenin.ru/gallery/pictures/links1234.gif

  3. #33
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentilis
    Repeat after me: paganism and pagan beliefs pre-date christianity.
    According to St. Augustine, Christianity has always existed - 'paganism' may predate the organization of the Church, but still the practice of Samhain is in the wrong place to be the root of Halloween. *There is no direct connection between the two.* Much of what folk call paganism today was simply incomplete Christianity before the advent of the Christ.

    All your talk of protestants and catholics is laughable. To suggest that Halloween superstitions trace their origins back to chritianity is patently absurd. Your argument are based on nothing more than ignorance and religious chauvinism.
    Yet we know that is exactly what happened. It is not a case of 'religious chauvinism' and definitely not of ignorance. I've *been* neo-pagan, Protestant, etc. - my religion is decided by what the truth is, and not vice versa. I wouldn't be where I am religiously today except for what I discovered in my own and other's research. Halloween superstitions are 'folkish', and they have roots in Christianity - yes. For people whom the services of the Church *are* their only catechism, such ideas developed - many of them entirely based upon Christian concepts.

    Allow me to share something with you. On the welsh side of my family there was an aunt four generations past whom everybody kept quiet about. It turns out she was a witch, and a member of an coven no less! She wasn't a misguided christian; she was the last practing member of an indigenous religion which traces its origins back to the days of the druids.
    Rubbish! There is no such thing as 'hereditary witches' with a continuous history. For that matter, I *am* still a Druid. Being a Druid is a matter of *caste*, not religion, and of heredity. The Druids were a proto-Christian faith, which is why they accepted it *whole*. Thus, the ArchDruids became the Archbishops of Britain. Go to Caldey Island off Tenby, ask the monks there what happened to the Druids... they simply became the Celtic Church, completing and correcting their own beliefs and practices according to the Christ (whom the Druids had foretold.) The idea of an 'indigenous witch religion' is entirely based upon the writings of Margaret Murray. Murray has long been categorized as 'pseudo-science'. There was no 'pre-Christian witch cult.'


    Halloween draws its lore of werewolves, fairies, brownies, elves, leprechauns, will-o'-the-wisps, little people, bugbears, banshees, witches, demons, goblins, hobgoblins, etc. from pagan sources. Period.
    Rather, those things are not 'Halloween lore', but folklore of a Christian people. Period.

    Long before Boniface IV, Gregory III, or Gregory IV entered the scene, my ancestors were observing "Nos Galan Gaeaf", a rite of druidic origin which means in welsh "night before winter". It was a pagan ritual that predated the introduction of christianity to Britain.
    Yes, but the 'how' they celebrated, and whether it was a 'pagan ritual' in the way that modern neo-pagans mean it is a whole other matter. The fact is that the 'pagans' of that period became Christians *willingly* because it completed their system of belief. And - Halloween entered their calendar with no reference to 'Samhain' or 'Nos Galan Gaeaf' Nos Galan Gaeaf continued *alongside* Halloween as a New Year's festival, not as a basis for Halloween - and neither as a replacement for the other. It can only be considered a 'pagan ritual' in the broadest sense in any case, as the festival was particularly *secular* - if it was specific to a religion, the Church would have done something about it. However, nothing was done.

    I wholeheartedly recommend you look beyond your christian sources and open you mind to the facts about the pre-christian beliefs of early Europeans.
    Been there, done that - as I've noted, most 'christian sources' have it wrong as they depend upon Hysslop and his ilk. The 'facts about ..pre-christian beliefs of early Europeans' are that we have little facts at all. The fiction of a Paleolithic religion's survival as a 'Celtic religion' that then survived 'hidden' until modern times is just that - a *fiction*. The few neo-pagans who are *not* anti-intellectual know better, and understand that the roots of the entire neo-pagan movement are with Gardner, who made up his experience with the 'New Forest Coven', but rather received his inspiration from Crowley.

    Have a look at the following titles:
    I'm familiar with all of those works. Most of them are dealing in *folklore* which is not the same as *religion*. Pagan religion is something quite distinct from folkish superstition. In any case, a few of the sources noted are from the Victorian period in thought, meaning that they postulate a Romantic notion of the folklore, and 'create' many things out of whole cloth (much as Iolo Morganwg did.) I'm quite in touch with my own Celtic roots - which is why I know - the modern 'Druidic' movement has no ritual, theological/ontological/teleological roots in 'pre-Christian' religion and dates only to 1717 *at the earliest.* And, that the 'old' Druid religion only survives in one place - in Episcopal Apostolic Catholic Orthodox religion of the Anglican/Celtic tradition (thus, Anglo-Catholics, Roman Catholics of those regions, and Western Rite Orthodox.)
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  4. #34
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    This is the place to get halloween costumes for the ladies...

    http://www.threewisheslingerie.com/

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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    To Frontiersman,

    I noticed that site you refer to is American Christian supported/recognised by CNN and church media. You say Halloween isn't a true spirituality and you keep harping on about the Roman Catholic "All Saints" and then you go onto say that it isn't really pagan, and paganism is "incomplete christianity"!!! No such thing as heridary witches? Most of them were killed during the witch hunt times, and it's evident that family members can pass down certain traits.

    I've not finished yet, I'll return with more stuff.
    (It doesn't matter how old the song is, I won't stop liking it).

  6. #36
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    [QUOTE=Frontiersman]Sure it matters - because modern Halloween is *still* both a Western European Christian 'holyday', and a secular American celebration. That neo-pagans coopted it for their own religion based upon Fundie Prot Romaphobic literature shouldn't spoil their fun. The Christians will still have the Vigil of All Saints/Halloween, and the Americans (Christians and Secular) will have their Halloween parties - the only two with the 'continuation' of a tradition. So, the pagans can have their festival - but as long as they understand that it is a new holiday they have based upon a Gaelic festival unrelated to Christian/secular Halloween, and based upon a particular Protestant revision of the Christian holyday.

    Regradless of the time of year most Aryan cultures have an equivalent to this festival which is rooted in our pre-Christian past.To suggest otherwise is to lack knowledge or to be disingenuous.


    Sure, but Xtian *does* have a specific usage in neo-pagan circles (including folk who call themselves Reconstructionists, Luciferians, Satanists, Pagans, Heathens, etc.) - it is meant to be derogatory, and comes from the anti-Christianism that so many neo-pagans do have (which has been rightly criticised within their own group, including the acknowledgement that the 'Burning Times' never existed, and that the folks 'burnt' were Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox - not 'Wiccans'.) I think it is because the great majority of neo-pagans come from either Protestantism, or from Protestant majority cultures (in the case they grew up Catholic, Orthodox, Jewish, etc.)

    So you are saying that there were no persecution and executions of pagans in Europe? Is that what you and Mother Church are alleging?

    Fluff Bunny is an inside joke in neo-pagan circles. I was sure that someone would get the reference, as the dependence upon Protestant anti-Catholic polemics for 'information' on a pagan past is part of what makes a 'fluff bunny' (as well as a belief in 'the Burning Times' or some utopian ancient Matriarchal society worshipping the 'Goddess' and living in harmony with nature until the 'boys' showed up and starting eating meat, shackling women, and saying Mass. ) I was, after all, a Druid for awhile after I left the Protestants.

    Strange that I have never encountered this expression until you used it here!
    It seems that you cant seem to make your mind up! Protestant? Druid? Catholic? Have you "tried" Odinism yet?
    Contrary to your assertin there is evidence of a matriarchal civilisation amongst Old Europeans prior to the arrival of the Indo-Europeans[Gimbutas].

  7. #37
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenDice
    Halloween itself is actually pagan, not Xtian and some Christians refuse to celebrate it because of it's pagan origins.
    And who are these Christians? Those Evengelical nimwits who know absolutely squat about the Christian faith? :eyes

    As for Halloween being "pagan", I believe Frontiersman addressed this issue very well. In fact I just posted in the thread about Celtic Christianity about how neo-pagans are trying to de-emphasize the Christianity of Europe as some kind of gloss over for paganism, and how its totally bogus from a historical and even theological viewpoint. This certainly fits well into that topic.

  8. #38
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenDice
    I noticed that site you refer to is American Christian supported/recognised by CNN and church media. You say Halloween isn't a true spirituality and you keep harping on about the Roman Catholic "All Saints" and then you go onto say that it isn't really pagan, and paganism is "incomplete christianity"!!! No such thing as heridary witches? Most of them were killed during the witch hunt times, and it's evident that family members can pass down certain traits..
    Yes, the site I referred to *has* been recognized by educated Christians, and many educated Pagans as well. CNN recognized it for being 'newsworthy' - the author is a professional folklorist.

    As for Halloween being a 'true spirituality' - there is no system or religion called 'Halloween'. The American Halloween is a secular holiday. Its roots are in the Church feast of Halloween with the folkish activities alongside (exoteric and esoteric.) And yes, some 'pagan' faiths were 'incomplete christianity'... such was the stance of many of the Celtic saints, St. Augustine, Origen of Alexandria, and others.

    As for 'hereditary witches' - historically we know there is no such thing. Claims of modern 'hereditary witches' are ahistorical, simply some tall tales and marketing. Those in the pagan community who have educated themselves have noted that this is so: there is no continuity in any sort of 'Witch cult'. The same goes for the 'Burning Times' - those witch hunts weren't burning any pagans, they were burning Christians, Christian heretics, and folk falsely accused. Marginalized folk were targets - it should be noted that these 'witch hunts' only happened in Western Europe, and occured alongside the emergence of the Protestant Reformation and Catholic Counter-Reformation. http://wicca.timerift.net/burning.html - have a look, real pagan common sense on the 'Burning Times' myth.

    As for 'family traits' - sure. I was born on Lughnassa, my grandfather at midnight on Samhain - we have the sean foresnai. That doesn't make us 'witches' - many Christian saints had the same ability, doesn't make us saints either (we have to work for that!)
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    There is nothing the matter with Americans except their ideals. The real American is all right; it is the ideal American who is all wrong. ~G.K. Chesterton

  9. #39
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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Quote Originally Posted by AryanKrieger

    Regradless of the time of year most Aryan cultures have an equivalent to this festival which is rooted in our pre-Christian past.To suggest otherwise is to lack knowledge or to be disingenuous.
    Oh yes, since there was a festivel around the same time as Halloween that must mean the bad old Christians stoled it from the pagans. :eyes

    So you are saying that there were no persecution and executions of pagans in Europe? Is that what you and Mother Church are alleging?
    Oh dont start with this. Religious persecutions were a part of paganism as well. Need we forget that Caesar Augustus persecuted astrologers because of his personal disgust with the practice. Oh well, guess Dostoevsky was right when he stated that Roman Catholicism was more Roman than Catholic. :eyes


    Contrary to your assertin there is evidence of a matriarchal civilisation amongst Old Europeans prior to the arrival of the Indo-Europeans[Gimbutas].
    LOL! Like what? Almost all literature supporting this position is absolute feminist BS(and not to mention much of it is written by Jews, what a coincidence!). Although I guess there is one thing I like about the typical argument about how the bad old Christians imposed patriarchy on the matriarchal pagans; Christianity held bring a sane social order to Europe!

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    Post Re: Halloween Costumes

    Halloween comes from Ireland and it was called Samhain, to celebrate the time of the dead. It's been celebrated in the British Isles and Ireland for centuries, and then it migrated to America where it became what it is today, with commericalised stuff that goes with it. Of course, Christians think it was theirs!
    (It doesn't matter how old the song is, I won't stop liking it).

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