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Thread: Europe Must Have a Religious Awakening or It Will Perish

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    Post Europe Must Have a Religious Awakening or It Will Perish

    I have noticed that many of the members here are atheists. Some are even anti-Christian, and others claim to be adherents of long-since-abandonded Norse or Celtic mythology. I tell you this much: Atheism and Norse mythology are paths to nowhere. And not only are they paths to nowhere, but they are paths to suicide!

    Let me explain: As most of you probably know, if Europe stays on the path that it is currently on, it will "exit from History" within 3 generations. Most people here realise that, and yet they still persistently fight pointless battles. By "pointless battles" I mean the various in-fighting that goes on, the anti-Christian attitudes that seem widespread (both on this site, and to some extent in the Western world as a whole), and then of course the ultimate red herring: anti-Americanism. What I'm saying is that Europe and Europeans are wasting their time and wasting their breath fighting perceived enemies across the Atlantic, perceived enemies in the Church, perceived enemies on the political left (granted, some on the political left are actually real enemies, but most aren't), and perceived enemies in different ethnic, cultural, or lingustic groups; all the while the proverbial gates of Troy are wide open and the real enemies are pouring in! I don't mean to say that Muslims are bad people or inherently "enemies" of the Western man, but the fact is that Islam is foreign to Europe, and if Europe gets to have a Muslim majority, Europe will perish forever.

    This is why a religious revival, or a religious awakening, is needed: Most people in Europe don't care one way or another about the survival of their people and the survival of their culture, etc. If a religious revival occurred, people would be much more interested in preserving their people, their culture, and their religion. European Christians wouldn't stand for Europe becoming the Northern arm of the Maghreb. But without a religious revival, I fear that Europe's "Exist from History" may be inevitable.


    Even if you are an athiest, I hope they can see where I'm coming from here. I hope you can see the great benefits that a European religious revival occuring would have. Please think about this the next time the anti-Christian debate comes up (the same with the anti-Americanism).




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    Post Re: Europe must have a religious awakening or it will perish

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDas
    I have noticed that many of the members here are atheists. Some are even anti-Christian, and others claim to be adherents of long-since-abandonded Norse or Celtic mythology. I tell you this much: Atheism and Norse mythology are paths to nowhere. And not only are they paths to nowhere, but they are paths to suicide!

    Let me explain: As most of you probably know, if Europe stays on the path that it is currently on, it will "exit from History" within 3 generations. Most people here realise that, and yet they still persistently fight pointless battles. By "pointless battles" I mean the various in-fighting that goes on, the anti-Christian attitudes that seem widespread (both on this site, and to some extent in the Western world as a whole), and then of course the ultimate red herring: anti-Americanism. What I'm saying is that Europe and Europeans are wasting their time and wasting their breath fighting perceived enemies across the Atlantic, perceived enemies in the Church, perceived enemies on the political left (granted, some on the political left are actually real enemies, but most aren't), and perceived enemies in different ethnic, cultural, or lingustic groups; all the while the proverbial gates of Troy are wide open and the real enemies are pouring in! I don't mean to say that Muslims are bad people or inherently "enemies" of the Western man, but the fact is that Islam is foreign to Europe, and if Europe gets to have a Muslim majority, Europe will perish forever.

    This is why a religious revival, or a religious awakening, is needed: Most people in Europe don't care one way or another about the survival of their people and the survival of their culture, etc. If a religious revival occurred, people would be much more interested in preserving their people, their culture, and their religion. European Christians wouldn't stand for Europe becoming the Northern arm of the Maghreb. But without a religious revival, I fear that Europe's "Exist from History" may be inevitable.


    Even if you are an athiest, I hope they can see where I'm coming from here. I hope you can see the great benefits that a European religious revival occuring would have. Please think about this the next time the anti-Christian debate comes up (the same with the anti-Americanism).




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    Christianity has also caused a lot of Wars and Bloodshed. The point is it was not without it's purpose. It's ok to fight as long as it is justified.

    Honestly I don't see a "religious awakening" happening in Europe or else where. I think we are in what Jesus calls are the last days. The great Apostasy is a sign that we are nearing the end.

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    Post Re: Europe must have a religious awakening or it will perish

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDas
    I don't mean to say that Muslims are bad people or inherently "enemies" of the Western man, but the fact is that Islam is foreign to Europe, and if Europe gets to have a Muslim majority, Europe will perish forever.
    As one who has studied Islam, the Qur'an, Arabic, and the Middle East at length in graduate school and elsewhere, I would have to agree with your assessment for racial reasons if nothing else. Those who dismiss the Iraqi insurgents and others like them as extremists or fundamentalists have a difficult time explaining the Prophet's wars of conquest and the Qur'an.

    But I would also argue that Christianity is itself foreign to Europe, having been forced upon the indigenous peoples by Roman conquerors. It is paganism that has the best claim to being the religion of Europe, not the JEWISH construct called Christianity. IMHO, that is.

    I believe it is racial, not religious, consciousness that will save Europe today. That is, if the native European cultures are not already diluted beyond redemption.

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    Post Re: Europe must have a religious awakening or it will perish

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Paladin
    Christianity has also caused a lot of Wars and Bloodshed. The point is it was not without it's purpose. It's ok to fight as long as it is justified.
    Christianity may have caused some wars, but far more wars were caused because of other, non-related reasons. Some people will always find a reason to take up arms and fight, and some national leaders will always find a reason to wage war. I would argue that without Christianity, Europe would've actually had a much bloodier history than it did, but that is an argument for another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Paladin
    Honestly I don't see a "religious awakening" happening in Europe or else where. I think we are in what Jesus calls are the last days. The great Apostasy is a sign that we are nearing the end.
    Some people say that a religious revival is already underway in America. It isn't talked about much and isn't reported in the media very much, but it's happening (they say). It could happen in Europe too. Maybe the only thing that is needed is a catalyst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmund
    But I would also argue that Christianity is itself foreign to Europe, having been forced upon the indigenous peoples by Roman conquerors. It is paganism that has the best claim to being the religion of Europe, not the JEWISH construct called Christianity. IMHO, that is.
    It's true that Christianity was founded in the Levant, but it's also true that that the first followers of the Christian religion were almost exclusively Europeans (as you know, many of the books in the New Testament are letters Paul wrote to various Christian communities in Europe). So I would say that Christianity is a European religion.
    hail Arminius

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    Post Re: Europe must have a religious awakening or it will perish

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDas
    It's true that Christianity was founded in the Levant, but it's also true that that the first followers of the Christian religion were almost exclusively Europeans (as you know, many of the books in the New Testament are letters Paul wrote to various Christian communities in Europe). So I would say that Christianity is a European religion.
    Good point. I would agree Christianity could be considered European if you discount the fact that the religion is a Jewish construct and focus instead on the Aryan origins of early Greek Christians in Greece and Asia Minor.

    But it is interesting nonetheless to point out the mechanism by which Christians get around the issue of their religion's racial origins: in contrast to the Jews, they simply spiritualize the concept of race.

    Martin Luther provides a convenient summary of the Jewish point of view. The quotes attributed to Jesus and to Paul are worth reading and rereading:

    There is one thing about which they boast and pride them selves beyond measure, and that is their descent from the foremost people on earth, from Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebekah, Jacob, and from the twelve patriarchs, and thus from the holy people of Israel. St. Paul himself admits this when he says in Romans 9:5: *Quorum patres*, that is, "To them belong the patriarchs, and of their race is the Christ," etc. And Christ himself declares in John 4:22, "Salvation is from the Jews." Therefore they boast of being the noblest, yes, the only noble people on earth. In comparison with them and in their eyes we Gentiles (Goyim) are not human; in fact we hardly deserve to be considered poor worms by them. For we are not of that high and noble blood, lineage, birth, and descent. This is their argument, and indeed I think it is the greatest and strongest reason for their pride and boasting. On the Jews and Their Lies
    Later in the same document Luther summarizes the effect of the Christian spiritualization of the physical reality of race:

    But to strut before God and boast about being so noble, so exalted, and so rich compared to other people—that is devilish arrogance, since every birth according to the flesh is condemned before him [Jesus] without exception in the aforementioned verse, if his covenant and word do not come to the rescue once again and create a new and different birth, quite different from the old, first birth. On the Jews and Their Lies
    So it's the religious birth that matters in Christianity, not the physical birth. And yet we know that a Jew converting to Christianity is still a Jew and all that entails.

    I suppose the good news from your perspective, then, would be that a European converting to Christianity is still a European.... To which I would respond: given a choice, why would a racially conscious Aryan pick a JEWISH construct for his or her religion?

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    Post Re: Europe must have a religious awakening or it will perish

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmund
    But I would also argue that Christianity is itself foreign to Europe, having been forced upon the indigenous peoples by Roman conquerors. It is paganism that has the best claim to being the religion of Europe, not the JEWISH construct called Christianity. IMHO, that is.
    Agriculture and Indo-European culture and langauges are also foreign to Europe ultimately. Therefore if we reject everything "foreign" to Europe, we wouldn't even have "European Paganism" or farming.
    It's senseless to reject things which have already been intrinsic to Europe and European people for thousands of years. Like it or not, they have shaped Europeans up until the last few centuries, when anti-clericalism, liberalism and other "fruits" of The Enlightenment began to put European cultures into decline.

    Also the idea that Christianity was somehow forced on everyone by Roman conquerers is false. My own people were never under Roman rule and they enthusiastically embraced it for it was not only in keeping with much of their indigenous religions, but also superior in that it done away with much of the former bloody and barbaric practises that where hardly beneficial.

    Most Neo-Pagans are actually atheists who like to pay lip-service to what they believe is the religion their ancestors practised. But I have yet to meet one who actually believes in these pagan deities in the very real sense that their ancestors did millenia ago. Thus, they have falsely taken the name "pagan" when in fact they are really athiests engaging in a kind of romantised pseudo-ancestor worship.

    I'm not un-sympathetic, I see where they are coming from and paganism is a part of our collective history that should not be dismissed. But similarly, I think it is paying disrespect to the countless generations of ancestors who held and died for Christian beliefs. I don't think it feasible or realistic to dismiss thousands of years of our history in order to get back to some kind of morbid religious archaelogicalism.
    The New Age movement of the New World Order knows well that harking back to these dead faiths is symptomatic of a dying people who have long since passed their zenith. It also knows that as Christianity lifted Europeans up to the height of their glory and power, it is also what can restore them and save their people. Which is why paganism is promoted while Christianity is discredited and slandered, IMHO.
    Last edited by Milesian; Tuesday, September 21st, 2004 at 10:51 AM.

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    Post AW: Europe must have a religious awakening or it will perish

    In Germany an avowal to official church wont bring anything. Those preached against NPD in Saxony, against racism and anti-Semitism and they demand a peaceful together between Germans and Foreigners. There are often information days, organized by church, about Islam, there it is said, that majority of Muslims are not a threat to Europe, that they are very polite and customized and that only a few are terrorists and that these terrorists have a wrong construction of Koran. Confessing to Christianity does not bring anything. Christianity is an ideal victim religion: “If someone beats your left cheek, turn also your right cheek to your aggressor.” Splendid adjustment, if Muslims take over Cologne, we should also gave Munich to them, or how must I understand this? If church calls for a new crusade, like in medieval, against Muslims in Germany, I would be with them, but as long as they preach tolerance and acceptance, I go to mass on Sunday and that´s it.

    Main problem in these country are medias, which make believe, that it is bad to be German, that every single Foreigner is a cultural enrichment and ever Foreigner prevents, that German do such malicious things, like in Third Reich. So people here do not need to become Christians, but real Germans again. Muslims would be faster driven out, than they could say Allah u akbar.

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    Post Re: Europe must have a religious awakening or it will perish

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    Agriculture and Indo-European culture and langauges are also foreign to Europe ultimately. Therefore if we reject everything "foreign" to Europe, we wouldn't even have "European Paganism" or farming.
    To make your point even more strongly, I doubt many would reject the General Theory of Relativity simply because Einstein was a Jew. (click me) But as a racially conscious person of European origin, I do consider it good personal hygiene to maintain a discrete distance from Jewish cultural artifacts whenever it is possible to do so. That's why, among many other reasons, I can reject the unprovable, convoluted and therefore unnecessary (Occam) tenets of Catholicism/Christianity, but must accept the fact of an Indo-European language or a working technology that operates in accordance with Einstein's discovery.

    It's senseless to reject things which have already been intrinsic to Europe and European people for thousands of years. Like it or not, they have shaped Europeans up until the last few centuries, when anti-clericalism, liberalism and other "fruits" of The Enlightenment began to put European cultures into decline.
    I'd have to disagree that the emancipation of the mind from religious dogma and the institutions that used it for social control was a bad thing. But my parents were very pre-Vatican II themselves, so I understand how we might differ on this point. I respect your veneration of Catholic tradition though I cannot agree with it myself.

    Also the idea that Christianity was somehow forced on everyone by Roman conquerers is false.
    True. The Irish were a notable exception.

    But I have yet to meet one who actually believes in these pagan deities in the very real sense that their ancestors did millenia ago.
    Not to be contentious here but I've met more than a few pagans who believe quite literally in the traditional pagan gods and goddesses, observe their festivals, offer propitiating sacrifices and so on. For a remarkable fictional account with a strong historical basis, see the movie The Wicker Man, which incidentally is set in a small island off the coast of England.

    I think it is paying disrespect to the countless generations of ancestors who held and died for Christian beliefs. I don't think it feasible or realistic to dismiss thousands of years of our history in order to get back to some kind of morbid religious archaelogicalism.
    None intended, though to be fair you'd also have to pay respect to all those on the European continent and Holy Land who were murdered by Christians for their non-Christian beliefs as well as to those Christians who died at the hands of other Christians because they subscribed to "heretical" Christian dogma. Traditional Christianity was/is hardly a tolerant religion. Neither does it represent "thousands of years" of our (or anyone's) history as you suggest here and elsewhere. It only feels that long.

    By the way, I'm part Irish myself so I hope you view our conversation as I do as a bit of Irish rough-and-tumble, to be followed ideally by some Bushmills or Harp. Then we'd really be a mood to straighten each other out! On the other hand, if as a relatively new member I've managed to stumble in to a Christians-only subforum, I apologize for shaking the tree...

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    Post Re: Europe must have a religious awakening or it will perish

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmund
    To make your point even more strongly, I doubt many would reject the General Theory of Relativity simply because Einstein was a Jew. (click me) But as a racially conscious person of European origin, I do consider it good personal hygiene to maintain a discrete distance from Jewish cultural artifacts whenever it is possible to do so. That's why, among many other reasons, I can reject the unprovable, convoluted and therefore unnecessary (Occam) tenets of Catholicism/Christianity, but must accept the fact of an Indo-European language or a working technology that operates in accordance with Einstein's discovery.
    Yes, that is a good example too
    I agree that it is good to keep a distance to distance oneself from Jewish culture. In fact a letter from a previous Pope bemoaned the fact that Christians were entering into familar everday relationships with Jews and being led astray by their "superstitions". More true today than ever if you include New Age Occultism, Liberalism, Athiesm, Communism, etc
    The point is for a Christian that believing in the Supreme Being that created all people, ourselves included, is not being Jewish. In fact Judaism is a rejection of that God, whereas Christainity is an acceptance. Modern Talmudism actually incoporates much from Middle Eastern occultism and pagan beliefs while the Torah takes a back-seat.I can see a non-believers point of view on this but it is rare to find a non-believer who can see it from the opposing view. Not a criticism per se, just an observation.


    I'd have to disagree that the emancipation of the mind from religious dogma and the institutions that used it for social control was a bad thing. But my parents were very pre-Vatican II themselves, so I understand how we might differ on this point. I respect your veneration of Catholic tradition though I cannot agree with it myself.
    We will likely have to disagree then.
    The problem is often the language used. Naming the discarding of thousands of years of religious and moral tradition as an "emancipation" automatically gives a certain slant to the subject, as if it were objectively a freedom from some kind of restraint and therefore intrinsically a good thing. But this isn't necessarily true. I would say the rejection of Christian morality has led to the breakdown of society through the promotion of disadain for legitimate authority and an excessive over-emphasis on individual freedom (to the detriment of feeling a sense of responsible duty to one's people, cultrue and society) and also a breakdown in the family unit through divorce, abortion, contraception, etc.
    IMO (which I understand not everyone shares) the benefits of this alleged "emancipation" are outweighed by the negative consequences.




    Not to be contentious here but I've met more than a few pagans who believe quite literally in the traditional pagan gods and goddesses, observe their festivals, offer propitiating sacrifices and so on. For a remarkable fictional account with a strong historical basis, see the movie The Wicker Man, which incidentally is set in a small island off the coast of England.
    I've met many who say they do indeed carry out the rituals and ceremonies (which are usually inaccurate estimations as we know little of ancient rituals of say, the Celts) but when pressed ultimately don't believe in literal deities (rather they view them as personifications of abstract concepts). But I concede that I hardly know every neo-pagan, so I accept you do know such people.
    As for the Wicker Man, I haven't seen it but it is indeed based upon what seems to be a cult of human sacrifice common amongst the pagan Celts of the British Isles. This is another of those practises which I feel it was benevolent of Christianity to put an end to.


    None intended, though to be fair you'd also have to pay respect to all those on the European continent and Holy Land who were murdered by Christians for their non-Christian beliefs as well as to those Christians who died at the hands of other Christians because they subscribed to "heretical" Christian dogma.
    Many such events are exagerrated by anti-Christian historians and authors, if truth be told. In addition, those who were persecuted such as the Cathars were practising such things as mass suicide and other practises which would have caused social chaos (not unlike many modern cults today). Even non-Catholic and anti-Catholic historians have admitted that the Church was right to stamp out such groups. And of course, we shouldn't forget Christians that have perished at the hands of non-Christians

    Traditional Christianity was/is hardly a tolerant religion. Neither does it represent "thousands of years" of our (or anyone's) history as you suggest here and elsewhere. It only feels that long.
    Indeed, it is not. For as St Thomas said, "Error has no rights".
    That is simply logical, for if you believe you have the truth then you do not permit people to preach error, especially if you consider the penalties for doing so to be terribel beyond belief.
    As for not representing thousands of years of history, can you please explain? Christainity certainly reached Ireland with St Patrick and very likely even before then. This would dayte it in Ireland to well over a thousand years ago

    By the way, I'm part Irish myself so I hope you view our conversation as I do as a bit of Irish rough-and-tumble, to be followed ideally by some Bushmills or Harp. Then we'd really be a mood to straighten each other out! On the other hand, if as a relatively new member I've managed to stumble in to a Christians-only subforum, I apologize for shaking the tree...
    Nah, the Christian sub-forums are full of heathens trying to promote their errors and nonsense
    Of course, if this was an Irish brawl then everyone would really know about it. It's simply a debate of differing opinions, and a good natured one as far as I can see.

    BTW, it's your round with the Harp...........slainte!

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    Post Re: AW: Europe must have a religious awakening or it will perish

    Quote Originally Posted by Preuße
    In Germany an avowal to official church wont bring anything. Those preached against NPD in Saxony, against racism and anti-Semitism and they demand a peaceful together between Germans and Foreigners. There are often information days, organized by church, about Islam, there it is said, that majority of Muslims are not a threat to Europe, that they are very polite and customized and that only a few are terrorists and that these terrorists have a wrong construction of Koran. Confessing to Christianity does not bring anything. Christianity is an ideal victim religion: “If someone beats your left cheek, turn also your right cheek to your aggressor.” Splendid adjustment, if Muslims take over Cologne, we should also gave Munich to them, or how must I understand this? If church calls for a new crusade, like in medieval, against Muslims in Germany, I would be with them, but as long as they preach tolerance and acceptance, I go to mass on Sunday and that´s it.
    The problem is the church since the 1960's has been infiltrated and hi-jacked by it's enemies - Liberals, Masons and Anti-Christians.
    The teaching of turning the other cheek is just the opposite. Instead of whining like a Jew, you simply get on with it and keep persevering despite the odds or who attacks you. It is a teaching of inner strength.
    As you said, the Church once orgaised Crusades to protect Europe from Muslim foreigners invading. It wasn't known as the Church Militant for nothing. Unfortunately, it seems the Church's enemies are building a new Church based on Human Rights and Secularism and Tolerance today.
    This is not Christian teaching, but the teaching of heretics intent on destroying Christianity. You should check out the masonic Alta Vendita document regarding this hi-jacking.

    This is why I adhere to pre-Vatican II teachings and not to the majority of liberal concilliar nonsense that is issued from St Peter's today

    Main problem in these country are medias, which make believe, that it is bad to be German, that every single Foreigner is a cultural enrichment and ever Foreigner prevents, that German do such malicious things, like in Third Reich. So people here do not need to become Christians, but real Germans again. Muslims would be faster driven out, than they could say Allah u akbar.
    Even more so if they were seen as a religious threat in addition to a cultural and racial threat. The Spanish Inquisition was notoriously enthusiastic at getting rid of the Moors

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