Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Last Online
    Monday, December 11th, 2006 @ 03:51 AM
    Gender
    Posts
    2,315
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

    July 26, 2003

    American vs. European Crime Rates

    A German lawyer, in response to another blog entry (German Justice: 2 Days Per Murder), repeated the common European belief that the United States has a much higher crime rate than major European countries. The facts are quite different...

    [UPDATE 8/15/2003 - For sources, see end of article]

    [Warning: this article is politically incorrect. If you are likely to be offended by this, you need to read it!]

    Here are Interpol 2001 crime statistics (rate per 100,000):

    • 4161 - US
    • 7736 - Germany
    • 6941 - France
    • 9927 - England and Wales
    Thus the US has a substantially lower crime rate than the major European countries!

    Here are the Interpol 1995 crime statistics (rate per 100,000):

    • 5278 - US
    • 8179 - Germany
    • 6316 - France
    • 7206 - England & Wales
    Hence the trend in the US is towards a lower crime rate, while the trend in Europe (except Germany) is towards an increasing crime rate.

    It is true that we (USA) have a high murder rate, mostly of criminals killing criminals, but a distressingly large number of people killing their spouses in anger, and the rate of "stranger killings" is rising.

    However, the homicide rates have been dropping dramatically as we have been increasing penalties:

    Homicide Rate/100,000 by Date in US:

    • 1980 - 10.2
    • 2000 - 5.5
    Also, our murder rate is high largely due to the multicultural nature of our society. Inner city blacks, members of a distinct subculture, have a vastly higher criminal and victim homicide rate than our society as an average:

    Homicide Offender Rate/100,000 by Race in US (2000):

    • 3.4 - White
    • 25.8 - Black
    • 3.2 - Other
    It is often hypothesized that blacks are overrepresented in murder statistics due to racism on the part of police and the justice system. If this were true, one would expect that the race of victims would have significantly different distribution than the race of the perpetrators, but this is not the case:

    Homicide Victim Rate/100,000 by Race in US (2000):

    • 3.3 - White
    • 20.5 - Black
    • 2.7 - Other
    Thus if you remove homicides committed by blacks (total: 21862, Blacks:9316), and assume a proportionality between number of offenders and number of offenses, you can extrapolate US homicide offender rate of only 2.6/100,000, lower than Germany (3.27) and France (3.91).

    One might ask why blacks are singled out. The reason is that inner city blacks are not representative of our culture. The black population is only about 13% of the total, and many blacks do not live in the inner city welfare cultures. Also, dividing the raw numbers into "white", "black" and "other," as was done by the Justice Department, shows that there are more black murderers (9316) than there are white and "other" combined (8346). I do not have statistics breaking out homicide by race AND location, but since most homicides committed by blacks are done in the inner city, the overall black statistic should be a good proxy.

    Many, including myself, blame the high inner city crime rate on several factors:

    • Misguided welfare policies, which have helped to create a culture of irresponsibility.
    • The ideology of racial separatism (black power, etc.) and its relative, multiculturalism and the cult of victimology.
    • Centuries of slavery and oppression, which really only came to an end in the 1960-current time period.
    That the dramatic increase in the black crime rate came after the rise of the welfare state and the creation of black racial separatism and victimology suggests the causative nature of those factors.

    NOTE: Statistics used here are not "cooked" in the sense of using the years that best support my argument. They are simply the oldest and newest years available from the sources, with the exception of the US homicide rate in 1980, which was a maximum over a long time, but not atypical of the period.

    NOTE: I found one relatively obvious error in the data above, and have replaced that with accurate data. Also I have slightly changed the wording to better reflect the methods of calculation, and adjusted the non-black rate slightly with the new data. 7/31/2002.

    NOTE: The following article by Theodore Dalrymple, a prominent British social critic, would tend to indicate that indeed, as suggested by some commenters, the high violence rate in France may be also due to ethnic minorities (although I was unable to find actual numbers). 10/25/2003.

    SOURCES:
    International data come from these Interpol documents.

    U.S. Data by Ethnicity comes from this Deparment of Justice document. Note that it has separate linked pages, and you need to go into it aways. Also you can get raw numbers by clicking on the graphs.

    Posted by John Moore at July 26, 2003 06:38 PM
    .

  2. #2
    Senior Member JoeDas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Last Online
    Wednesday, December 6th, 2006 @ 12:55 AM
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    on the farm
    Gender
    Politics
    irrelevant.
    Religion
    Protestant
    Posts
    252
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

    I am confused. What does this guy mean by "crime statistics" (as in, "Here are Interpol 2001 crime statistics rate per 100,000")? They state that Europe's overall crime rate is actually higher than America's. Now, extraordinary claims like this require extraordinary proof. But the apparent source for the crime statistics at the bottom of the article gave me this message when I clicked the link: "The International crime statistics are only available to authorised police users." Without verification of these "crime statistics", I'll have to stick to the conventional wisdom that America has a higher crime rate than Europe.

    Also, this guy removes Blacks from the US numbers towards the end of the article and shows how "low" our numbers "really are", but he doesn't remove Blacks, Muslims, and other minorities from the British and French and German numbers that he uses for comparison. You can't compare apples and oranges like that.


    And finally, parts of this article remind me of the often-laughed-at quote from the lovable mayor of our nation's capital: "If you take out the killings, Washington actually has a very very low crime rate." -- Marion Barry, Mayor of Washington, DC
    hail Arminius

  3. #3
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, February 9th, 2006 @ 08:40 AM
    Gender
    Posts
    805
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDas
    And finally, parts of this article remind me of the often-laughed-at quote from the lovable mayor of our nation's capital: "If you take out the killings, Washington actually has a very very low crime rate." -- Marion Barry, Mayor of Washington, DC
    How black is DC? About 75%?

  4. #4
    Senior Member JoeDas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Last Online
    Wednesday, December 6th, 2006 @ 12:55 AM
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    on the farm
    Gender
    Politics
    irrelevant.
    Religion
    Protestant
    Posts
    252
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

    The city as a whole is like 65% Black. Parts of the city (especially Wards 7 & 8 east of the Anacostia River), are very poor and all-Black. During Marion Barry's three terms as mayor, Washington had the highest murder rate in the country, and when some reporter asked him about that at a news conference, he said that quote.
    What's interesting is that Marion Barry was arrested for possession of cocaine, spent time in jail, and was widely made fun of, but people still love him. He had a show on local television in which he talked about current events; and a few days ago he entered DC politics again by easily winning a seat in the City Council from Ward 8. Some people say if Marion Barry died tommorow and appeared on the ballot 10 years from now, he'd still easily win
    hail Arminius

  5. #5
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 07:36 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    4,095
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    23
    Thanked in
    22 Posts

    Post Re: U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

    American crime rates are a political issue. Each new, incoming police chief in every major US city want a lower crime rate that the guy he replaced. This means that the police are under pressure to under-report crime. This is exactly what happens. Also, now that major US cities have minorities largely made up of illegal aliens, people who will not usually report crime for fear of discovey and deportation, it is no wonder that rates of reported crime are dropping. Nobody believes it has decreased much, if any.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, June 6th, 2005 @ 03:03 AM
    Subrace
    Corded Pontid/Cro-Magnid
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Ankh-Morpork
    Gender
    Age
    41
    Occupation
    Evil water sprite
    Politics
    laissez-faire
    Religion
    Impious free thinker
    Posts
    1,083
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff
    American crime rates are a political issue. Each new, incoming police chief in every major US city want a lower crime rate that the guy he replaced. This means that the police are under pressure to under-report crime. This is exactly what happens. Also, now that major US cities have minorities largely made up of illegal aliens, people who will not usually report crime for fear of discovey and deportation, it is no wonder that rates of reported crime are dropping. Nobody believes it has decreased much, if any.
    I hear that it has actually dropped in New York City after Giuliani's term however. I came here the year he left office but I have been told countless times how lucky I was because a couple of years ago it really was hell. He was too conservative for my tastes but apparently he did a good job with cleaning up the city. One can even walk around in Central Park at night and Spiderman is totally obsolete.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, June 6th, 2005 @ 03:03 AM
    Subrace
    Corded Pontid/Cro-Magnid
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Ankh-Morpork
    Gender
    Age
    41
    Occupation
    Evil water sprite
    Politics
    laissez-faire
    Religion
    Impious free thinker
    Posts
    1,083
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

    Although in general I'd find it hard to believe that crime rates have gone down in America as a whole. I was in Washington D.C. a few weeks ago and D.C. is pretty scary at night. The population changes drastically and streets are filled with homeless black guys asking for money and following you around after 10 pm. I missed the Big Apple homeless gang after spending a few days there, who almost never stalk you and manage by talking to themselves.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Last Online
    Monday, December 11th, 2006 @ 03:51 AM
    Gender
    Posts
    2,315
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post Re: U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blond Beast
    How black is DC? About 75%?
    About that if one considers all the illegals. Officially ~65% in 1990. Used to be over ~70% black in the 70s and 80s. Used to be over ~65% white in 40s and 50s.
    .

  9. #9
    Senior Member JoeDas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Last Online
    Wednesday, December 6th, 2006 @ 12:55 AM
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    on the farm
    Gender
    Politics
    irrelevant.
    Religion
    Protestant
    Posts
    252
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryggvi
    About that if one considers all the illegals.
    "illegals"? I assure you, 99%+ of Blacks in Washington DC are native-born and as such cannot possibly be "illegal". Foreign-born Blacks tend to go to Suburban Maryland and Northern Virginia, not DC. No one wants to go to DC. Even the people who already live there don't want to be there! Everyone with the means bailed out of that place deacades ago!
    hail Arminius

  10. #10
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Thursday, July 5th, 2012 @ 07:07 AM
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    Metropolis
    Gender
    Age
    39
    Family
    Single
    Occupation
    Journalist
    Religion
    Protestant
    Posts
    6,670
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10
    Thanked in
    10 Posts

    Post Re: U.S. is safer: American vs. European Crime Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blond Beast
    How black is DC? About 75%?
    DC is a very segragated place.
    North East DC is basically all black. North West DC is mostly White because a lot of companies are based there and the real estate is very expensive.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Thursday, March 9th, 2017, 02:06 AM
  2. Homogeneous Societies Have Lower Crime Rates
    By Roderic in forum Immigration & Multiculturalism
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Wednesday, September 14th, 2011, 03:31 AM
  3. U.S. Gun Ownership Skyrockets, Violent Crime Rates Drop
    By Gerulf in forum The United States
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Monday, May 30th, 2011, 06:25 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •