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Thread: DNA Study Finds Early Inhabitants of Israel Were Blue-Eyed and Fair-Skinned

  1. #11
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech View Post
    this is about Indo-Europeans once living in the Middle-East and Israel.
    IF - and that's a big IF - there ever were Indo-Europeans in the Middle East, they've been genocided out of existence by ~2000 BCE and replaced by Semitic peoples.

    Same goes btw the "fair-skinned" Egyptians (Berbers are "fair-skinned" compared to their neighboring tribes too, doesnt make them Indo-European or Aryan), where the only connection to (Indo)-Europeans is Tutanchamun and "genetic links" to north-western Europe, completely cohencidentially into regions with strong Sephardic influence on the population resulting from the force-conversion of Jews during the middle ages.

    The common misconception of "christian identity" "arguments" is the intentional mistranslation of the word goyim to "pagan" or "gentile" (a word invented by King James translation btw) instead of the real meaning of "non-Jews" in order to deceive the peoples of Europe into a universalist religion made up from Judaism.

    Indeed we are Pagans by race, the gods of our Race are Odin, Thor, Freyja, Heimdall etc.

    I really can not understand why anyone would want to worship the Jewish Volksgott Yahwe.
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  3. #12
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    Actually Jesus is described in letters from the time.
    Can you please stop posting this work of FICTION?

    It was written by the British Journalist William Percival Crozier in 1928.

    There is NO, not a single, contemporary letter, book, scroll or whatever mentioning "Jesus" (which is a Latinized version of Yeshua which came about only during the 4th or 5th century). The Evangelical writings of Luke, Matthew etc are by and large a work of fiction too, 2 of the 4 are merely reproductions of the other two, and they were written in the 2d century CE.

    The Greek word-addition "christos" may even merely result from the fish-symbol used by the Essenian sect that evolved into christianity through Paul's propaganda, because "christos" (Χριστός) and the Greek word vor fish (ιχθύς) are very similar pronounced.

    Holy gods, this is a complete fake religion, everything of it!

    They replaced your race's gods with a fake, a lie, the literal deceiver, and then they preach "dont resist evil" to you and tell you it's a virtue, when all it serves is to destroy your race.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
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    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Thought this would fit in here. Hopefully putting an end to the absurd "Khazan mass conversion" nonsense.


    In 2010 I was contacted by the chief editor of a volume called “Khazars: Myth and History,” put together by the Russian Academy of Sciences. She knew my books on Ashkenazic names, and was familiar with my ongoing study of the history of Yiddish, eventually published by Oxford University Press in 2015 as “Origins of Yiddish Dialects.” The editor wanted me to write a paper explaining the traces of Jews from medieval Khazaria that she was certain I had observed in my research.

    I tried to politely decline her proposal. I told her that my paper on that topic would be too short for inclusion, because it would consist of just one sentence: “The corpus of personal names and surnames borne by Jews in Eastern Europe during the last six centuries, as well as the Yiddish language as a whole, do not contain any link to Khazaria.”

    The editor insisted that if I was so convinced of this argument, I should write it up, for it would be of interest to both experts and lay readers. I finally agreed and wrote a paper.

    The paper allowed me to formulate some methodological principles about working in what are sometimes called “soft sciences.” Historiography and linguistics are not formal disciplines like mathematics or logic; nothing can be proved definitively. This allows for the introduction of what we might call “junk science” — a category to which the Khazarian hypothesis belongs.

    Nevertheless, the absolute lack of any fundamental proof for the theory has not stopped it from catching the imaginations of geneticists, linguists and hordes of lay folk alike.

    Since the late 19th century, the so-called “Khazarian theory” has promoted the idea that a bulk of Ashkenazic Jews living in Eastern Europe descended from medieval Khazars, a semi-nomadic Turkic people who founded a powerful polyethnic state in the Caucasus and north to the Caspian, Azov and Black seas. The theory received a recent boost with the 1976 publication of “The Thirteenth Tribe,” a book by Arthur Koestler. Most recently, the Khazarian hypothesis has been promoted by authors like the Tel Aviv University professor of history Shlomo Sand and Tel Aviv University professor of linguistics Paul Wexler, as well the geneticist Eran Elhaik.

    Despite this institutional backing, the theory is absolutely without evidence. As any historian will tell you, generations of Jews, like generations of any people, leave historical traces behind them. These traces come in multiple forms. For starters, people leave behind them historical documents and archaeological data. Predictably, archaeologic evidence about the widespread existence of Jews in Khazaria is almost nonexistent. While a series of independent sources does testify to the existence in the 10th century of Jews in the Kingdom of Khazaria, and while some of these sources also indicate that the ruling elite of Khazaria embraced Judaism, the Khazarian state was destroyed by Russians during the 960s. In other words, we can be confident that Judaism was not particularly widespread in that kingdom.

    The next historical record of Jews — in a few cities that today belong to western Ukraine and western Belarus — shows up in the 14th century, when Jews are regularly referred to in numerous documents.

    And yet, no direct historiographical data is available to connect the Jews who lived in Eastern Europe in the 14th century with their co-religionists from the 10th-century Khazaria.

    One city in northwest Ukraine, Volodymyr-Volynskyi, does seem to have an uninterrupted presence of Jews from the 12th century. For example, in 1171 a Jewish merchant called Benjamin from that city lived in Cologne, and a Russian document refers to local Jews in 1288. Another Jewish source describes a circumcision ceremony in that city at the end of the 14th century. But it is only during the 16th century that references to Jews appear in large territories of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania, and even in the mid-16th century local communities were not populous. Historical documents also indicate that the earliest known Jewish communities in Poland were all situated in its westernmost part.

    But history is not the only discipline to debunk the Khazarian hypothesis. Linguistics, too, and the study of Yiddish help us rule out a Khazarian ancestry for today’s Jews. Since the 17th century, Yiddish was the vernacular language of all Jews of Eastern Europe. All its main structural elements are German, though during the past few centuries, they also underwent a strong influence of Slavic languages.

    This view is shared by all major Yiddish linguists — but not by Paul Wexler. Wexler believes there to be certain structural Turkic and Iranian elements “hidden” in Yiddish.

    His methods rely heavily on fortuitous coincidences. And if you apply them more widely, you can link Yiddish to any language in the world.

    It is simply bad linguistics. All words of Turkic origin came into Yiddish via the intermediary of East Slavic languages. It is the lexicon that keeps the actual traces of languages spoken by ancestors of Yiddish speakers. For that reason, in addition to Hebrew and Aramaic words, Yiddish has a small set of words whose roots come from Old French, Old Czech and Greek.

    Some proponents of the Khazarian theory admit the German basis of Yiddish, but pretend that it was learned in Eastern Europe by “indigenous” Jewish masses from rabbis who came from the West and who introduced Yiddish as a “prestige” language.

    But such a scenario can hardly be accepted. Only the cultural languages, Hebrew and Aramaic, were prestigious. During the 16th and 17th centuries, Yiddish brought from Central Europe became the first language for all Jews of Eastern Europe, a vernacular rather than a prestige object. Slavic idioms were used in that area by both the Christian majority and (during the previous period) by local Jews of heterogenous origins. Far from prestigious, Yiddish, understandable even for children, was used to teach students the prestigious language of Hebrew. We know that Yiddish wasn’t a prestige language, because girls, who were not taught languages in school, spoke it, too. The role of mothers in the transmission of the everyday language is by far more important than that of fathers.

    In addition to history and linguistics, a third discipline can help us put to rest the Khazarian hypothesis: onomastics, or the study of proper names. Looking at names, both first names and surnames, gives us a sense of how a community saw itself, its language and its origins. And in the Jewish communities of Eastern Europe over the past six centuries, not a single Turkic name can be found in documents listing Jewish names. Even in documents from the 15th and 16th centuries dealing with Jews who lived in the territories of modern Ukraine and Belarus have no such names.

    In the corpus of given names used by Jews of Eastern Europe during the last centuries, we find the same linguistic layers as in the lexicon of Yiddish. There are numerous Germanic and Hebrew names and some Aramaic names. There are also Greek names (Todres from Theodoros, Kalmen from Kalonymos), Old French names (Beyle, Bunem, Yentl), Old Czech names (Khlavne, Slave, Zlate), and Polish names (Basye, Tsile), and very few East Slavic names (Badane, Vikhne). There are no Turkic names.

    Finally, we come to genetics. One does not have to be a professional geneticist to see the inadequacy of the methodologies used by Eran Elhaik, the champion of the “Khazarian theory” in that domain. In his paper of 2013, he pretends to show that modern Ashkenazic Jews are genetically closer to Khazars than to biblical Hebrews. The last mention of Khazars is almost one thousand years old, while biblical times are also far from us. For these reasons, Elhaik needed modern substitutes, so he substituted Armenians and Georgians for Khazars (because all of them are related in some way to Caucasus); and he substituted Israeli Palestinians for biblical Hebrews. In his paper of 2016, he analyses the links between various population groups by introducing another “bold” idea, that of finding a sort of “geographic average” point for various genetic features. Using it, he links the Ashkenazic Jews to the southern part of the Black sea, not far from the Turkish border but still in places inhabited by fish only.

    Globally speaking, his general method is applicable only in a context of families that remained for centuries in the same places (for example, in Sardinia) but certainly not for population groups characterized by geographic mobility. As one of my friends pointed out, if we apply his idea to Barack Obama, the former US president will be classified as “Libyan” just because Libya lies in the middle of a line that unites Kenya and the UK.

    Globally speaking, all arguments suggested by proponents of Khazarian theory are either highly speculative or simply wrong. They cannot be taken seriously.

    This has never stopped the theory from being popular. But the ideological reasons for this are for another article.
    Read more: https://forward.com/opinion/382967/a...res-the-proof/



    The claim that today’s Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Khazars who converted in the Middle Ages is a myth, according to new research by a Hebrew University historian.

    The Khazar thesis gained global prominence when Prof. Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University published “The Invention of the Jewish People” in 2008. In that book, which became a best seller and was translated into several languages, Sand argued that the “Jewish people” is an invention, forged out of myths and fictitious “history” to justify Jewish ownership of the Land of Israel.

    Now, another Israeli historian has challenged one of the foundations of Sand’s argument: his claim that Ashkenazi Jews are descended from the people of the Khazar kingdom, who in the eighth century converted en masse on the instruction of their king. In an article published this month in the journal “Jewish Social Studies,” Prof. Shaul Stampfer concluded that there is no evidence to support this assertion.

    “Such a conversion, even though it’s a wonderful story, never happened,” Stampfer said.

    Stampfer, an expert in Jewish history, analyzed material from various fields, but found no reliable source for the claim that the Khazars – a multiethnic kingdom that included Iranians, Turks, Slavs and Circassians – converted to Judaism. “There never was a conversion by the Khazar king or the Khazar elite,” he said. “The conversion of the Khazars is a myth with no factual basis.”

    As a historian, he said he was surprised to discover how hard it is “to prove that something didn’t happen. Until now, most of my research has been aimed at discovering or clarifying what did happen in the past … It’s a much more difficult challenge to prove that something didn’t happen than to prove it did.”

    That’s because the proof is based primarily on the absence of evidence rather than its presence – like the fact that an event as unprecedented as an entire kingdom’s conversion to Judaism merited no mention in contemporaneous sources.

    “The silence of so many sources about the Khazars’ Judaism is very suspicious,” Stampfer said. “The Byzantines, the geonim [Jewish religious leaders of the sixth to eleventh centuries], the sages of Egypt – none of them have a word about the Jewish Khazars.”

    The research ended up taking him four years. “I thought I’d finish in two months, but I discovered that there was a huge amount of work. I had to check sources that aren’t in my field, and I consulted and got help from many people.”

    Stampfer said his research had no political motives, though he recognizes that the topic is politically fraught.

    “It’s a really interesting historical question, but it has political implications,” he said. “As a historian, I’m naturally worried by the misuse of history. I think history should be removed from political discussions, but anyone who nevertheless wants to use history must at least present the correct facts. In this case, the facts are that the Khazars didn’t convert, the Jews aren’t descendants of the Khazars and the contemporary political problems between Israelis and Palestinians must be dealt with on the basis of current reality, not on the basis of a fictitious past.”

    Read more: https://forward.com/news/200825/why-...-from-khazars/

    On this nonsense theory all the other freak stuff was developed, the Edomite and Canaan bullcrap and what not, and most of all, the "Christian Identity" bullshit that "we are the original Jews/Hebrews".

    No, we are not. Jesus was not European, but a Jewish Rabbi. No one else other than "Christian Identitists" ever made such a claim, for which there is not a single proof other than CI's wishful thinking, absurd twisting of history and even inventing things, or like the alleged "letter of Pilate" (see post above) happily taken from a fictious work and since then spread as "proof" for this nonsense theory.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    Frankly, I don't care what some scientific article, mainstream religion, or wacky religious sect claims, I know in my heart that Jesus is the angel Michael who came to us to make the ultimate sacrifice in human form. And He is indeed one of the many angelic sons of our heavenly father who now stands to the right side of his father's heavenly throne, because he earned that position for what He did for us, rather we accept Him or not.

    Make fun of me and Jesus all you like. It don't change a damn thing!
    “A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot.” Robert A. Heinlein

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    On this nonsense theory all the other freak stuff was developed, the Edomite and Canaan bullcrap and what not, and most of all, the "Christian Identity" bullshit that "we are the original Jews/Hebrews".
    The Khazars theory is definitely rubbish. Just look at how actively Jews have shaped it's development. Once again, they're doing the same thing they did with communism, Alt-Right, etc.: it starts off Jewish, but gradually comes into the hands of non-Jews, who shape it into a tolerable form and then the Jews use their early involvement as leverage. Even today, they remind us in their films (i.e. Agora) that "Jesus was a Jew" and that we are indebted to them for giving us the Bible and so and so. In other words, this is just another form of usury!

    The Jew Benjamin Freedman is responsible for making it appealing to non-Jews by integrating it into his speech. The key thing most Christian Identity adherents miss is that the Old Testament produces the same kind of mentality, character, and conduct in a person. The Talmud and Old Testament have practically the same effect. The Talmudic threat is highly exaggerated, as the Talmud itself is merely a commentary on an existing threatening literature (Old Testament).

    I once possessed a copy of a Christian Identity New Testament, in consideration for it's acclaimed literal translation. It boggled my mind how they could possibly see a racial aspect in Paul's letters. They also had a bizarre rendering for the holy spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    No, we are not. Jesus was not European, but a Jewish Rabbi. No one else other than "Christian Identitists" ever made such a claim, for which there is not a single proof other than CI's wishful thinking, absurd twisting of history and even inventing things
    Ernst Haeckel made the claim, as did Adolf Hitler, Chamberlain, and Rosenberg. Rosenberg even cites the Syriac Christian Ephraem disputing that Jesus had a Syrian mother and Roman father.

    Haeckel argued that Panthera was connected to Pandora, having a Greek origin. He also argued that the Golden Rule either had a polyphyletic origin or Jesus had derived it from an Oriental source. Hitler argued that the Jews would have taken charge over Jesus' execution themselves if he had been Jewish (by stoning). Both drew on Celsus' testimony of the Jews calling him the son of a Roman soldier. Incidentally, the "Nazi" philosopher Rosenberg claimed that Panthera was a word play for panther, an animal esteemed by Bacchus worshipers and the Jews had an abhorrence of this animal (and for other large beasts, which would explain the total absence of any regard for animal well-being in their morals) and for what it represented (Greece in it's decline).

    Renan points out how the population of Galilee was mixed, Dietrich Eckart points out how the actual Galilean populace was held in contempt by Jews and were mocked by them for being unable to do anything about their situation ("no prophet arises out of Galilee"), Louis Marschalko points out how "in Jerusalem everybody could recognise his disciples by their Galilean dialect." Hitler points out how Galilee had a large number of Roman soldiers installed. Chamberlain adds in a footnote that "the inhabitants of Galilee were a peculiar race distinguished for strength and courage, as is proved by their taking part in the campaign under the Persian Scharbarza and in the taking of Jerusalem in the year 614." It's worth noting that the Toledot Yeshu states that Jeshu had to flee to Upper Galilee. What possible refuge was there in Upper Galilee?

    Here's an interesting thing about Matthew 5:29 I've been reflecting on recently. Hitler was said to have justified his eugenics using this verse. It's entirely possible to apply to this the human community when you consider how the cutting off of the hand was considered a Greek custom by the orator Aeschines (and this was attested to as a non-Jewish custom by Josephus). The weak, unhealthy, sickly elements drag down a community if they are not cut off. This is widely recognized in the animal kingdom, as seen in what the bees do with their drones. In antiquity, this was upheld by expelling lepers. Why was Jesus familiar with this custom if he had been largely brought up in Palestine as a Jew? If I'm not mistaken, the gospels actually say little about the Greeks, it isn't until Paul arrives on the scene that this is addressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    or like the alleged "letter of Pilate" (see post above) happily taken from a fictious work and since then spread as "proof" for this nonsense theory.
    Admittedly, this alleged letter even had me fooled for a time before I caught on about it's lack of verifiable sources.

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    Member Wuotans Krieger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    I hate these "we are the TRUE Israelites" idiots. I don't WANT to be "the TRUE Israelites," and WE ARE NOT. There were no Jews in the period he talks about here. 3900 BC? According to their bible, Abraham wasn't even born until 2000 BC. These blue-eyed people must have been the ones the Jews committed genocide against as instructed by "their God."
    You are absolutely correct. These were Nordic tribes who more than likely spoke some form of Indo-European.

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