View Poll Results: Should guns be legal? Choose the option that represents your opinion best.

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  • All guns should be legal, including full-automatic weapons. People should be allowed to carry handguns at their own leisure, concealed or not.

    39 54.17%
  • Guns, apart from full-automatic weapons, should be legal. People should be allowed to carry handguns at their own discretion, concealed or not.

    10 13.89%
  • Guns, apart from full-automatic weapons, should be legal. People should in general not be allowed to carry handguns, be it under license for activities with an increased risk (e. g. transporting money from a company to the bank, driving a cab in the night, &c.)

    12 16.67%
  • In general, nobody but police and military should have guns, with some exceptions maybe, e. g. rifles for hunters.

    11 15.28%
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Thread: Should Guns Be Legal? / The Right to Bear Arms

  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by wittwer View Post
    Any analysis of this "Right" as articulated in the Second Amendment, needs to pay close attention to the, "a well REGULATED MILITIA" clause. This precludes just any Tom, Dick or Jane on the street from bearing or owning firearms.
    The article gives literally no definition whatsoever to what "well regulated" means.

    Additionally, Thomas Jefferson was firmly of the belief that the people were to be in ultimate control of their leadership - a strong Germanic tradition (how many Chieftains were killed by their own tribes for wanting to be king?) By allowing citizens to bear weaponry - the government must be in fear of revolution. Without guns, we, citizens are nothing at all to the State but sheep. With a gun, I can rightfully, and justly make war against a traitorous State. Without weaponry, the State can oppress us - and by allowing our own disarmament, we give the State the right, and free rein to oppress us without limits.

    That we will be better prepared to fight off, or oppose a foreign invader, I am pretty sure that fighting a domestic enemy was more on the minds of the founding fathers.

    In addition to all this, it is my firm belief that every free man should be given the right to be armed. Along with this, some measure of martial training should be given to all children. Without preparing our children to be victors, they will simply be at the mercy of others.

    I literally disagree with your sentiment 100%.
    "So, yes, we are better than others. Our worldviews are better than those of others. This does not need to be universally true, it is enough when it is true for us." - velvet

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  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schopenhauer View Post
    The doubt stems from Marxists who know they won't be able to take over the country so long as the citizens have access to firearms with which to defend themselves with.

    For years the Marxists have tried to argue that the Second Amendment only applied to the National Guard and that owning firearms wasn't an individual right. The Heller decision completely negates that view and affirms the people's individual right to own firearms. SCOTUS held that the word "people", as in "the right of the people to bear arms..", meant the private citizen and not the National Guard was what was meant by the use of the word people.
    My understanding of American 19th century history is that there wasn't any government owned gun manufacturers, that guns and ammo were for sale to citizens from gun stores or general stores, supplied by private gun manufacturers who also sold their guns to the military in procurement deals. And that from their inception, these manufacturers have had both a private and a military market to sell to. Would this be a reasonably accurate picture?

    The founders would still have been allowed to see this go on yet the private gun manufacturers have continued to florish, the gun stores are still around and there are countless guns in the hands and ownership of US citizens. Somehow I don't think this is the result of the second amendment being misinterpreted.

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallflower View Post
    I am working on a thesis paper in support of legalised gun and firearm ownership, stemming from the second amendment which is the one that gives individuals "The right to bear arms", for those not familiar with it. I strongly believe in self defense, and that everyone should have a right to self defence, and feel that with more armed households crime rate would decrease and/or save lives, protecting the innocent come a "kill or be killed" scenario.

    And I also believe that people should be able to keep the given right of self defense, which is something the founding fathers of the U.S also made clear in the Bill of Rights.

    However, I of course need to use statistical facts and figures i.e documented evidence in support of this pro-gun argument, to back up my claim that if people have the right to own guns this can prevent crime and save lives. My hypothesis is, that as gun ownership increases, crime rate will decrease, as a deterrent effect.

    However, as much as I support the right and legalization to bear arms and keep gun or firearms in their home I also believe in strict gun control and restriction, i.e people who are going to buy a gun must meet several criteria i.e gun owners license (from rigurus gun training courses/camps), no criminal record, etc., not just anyone who has the money can obtain a gun; there has to be restrictions, which I will include in my paper as my own idea in addition to the statistical evidence, and facts and figures to support the argument.

    So my question is : Does anyone know of any links or websites that are in defense of gun ownership and the second amendment, which use statistical evidence, facts and figures, which prove that if more people own guns or firearms, crime rate would decrease, and lives would be saved as a result to back up their claim?

    Thank you in advance.
    Cant Americans use their weapons in Self-Defence anyway? I mean it is your 1st line of defence!

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozhammer View Post
    Cant Americans use their weapons in Self-Defence anyway? I mean it is your 1st line of defence!
    We can, thanks to the Second Amendment. What the OP is looking for is statistics to back up the claim that gun access is a demonstrably good thing for crime rates.
    "So, yes, we are better than others. Our worldviews are better than those of others. This does not need to be universally true, it is enough when it is true for us." - velvet

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  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    My understanding of American 19th century history is that there wasn't any government owned gun manufacturers, that guns and ammo were for sale to citizens from gun stores or general stores, supplied by private gun manufacturers who also sold their guns to the military in procurement deals. And that from their inception, these manufacturers have had both a private and a military market to sell to. Would this be a reasonably accurate picture?

    The founders would still have been allowed to see this go on yet the private gun manufacturers have continued to florish, the gun stores are still around and there are countless guns in the hands and ownership of US citizens. Somehow I don't think this is the result of the second amendment being misinterpreted.
    In response to your first paragraph, nothing has changed. You can, in the majority of states, still walk into any gun store and, provided you have the appropriate license and walk out with just about any pistol or long gun of your choice. As for fully automatic/select fire weapons and sound suppressors, you can still get them as long as you have a Class III weapons permit.

    Of course the licensing of firearms varies from state to state, and even from town to town.

    As for your second paragraph, gun sales in the US continue to climb because whites are finally waking up to the fact that arming themselves against knuckle-drawing ghetto subhumans isn't such a bad idea.
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  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozhammer View Post
    Cant Americans use their weapons in Self-Defence anyway? I mean it is your 1st line of defence!
    The "Castle Doctrine"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

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  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schopenhauer View Post
    Australia used to have reasonable gun laws until they over-regulated it to keep the populace more controlled. TELL ANY FOOL YOU MEET WHO WANTS MORE GUN CONTROL TELL EM FROM AN AUSSIE ITS STUPID ITS INSANE!

    But I wish we had it like you part of growing up is learning how to fight or in this case shoot. Though I was lucky being part of the Military Youth for some time got some good AusSteyr shots

    Has any American fired one of these?

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozhammer View Post
    Australia used to have reasonable gun laws until they over-regulated it to keep the populace more controlled. TELL ANY FOOL YOU MEET WHO WANTS MORE GUN CONTROL TELL EM FROM AN AUSSIE ITS STUPID ITS INSANE!

    But I wish we had it like you part of growing up is learning how to fight or in this case shoot. Though I was lucky being part of the Military Youth for some time got some good AusSteyr shots

    Has any American fired one of these?
    The semi-auto versions go for $2,600 last time I checked.

    I think the idea of being able to switch ejection port sides is a great one, but I hate the 5.56 caliber.
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  9. #399
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    Here's somthing humorous, kinda tongue in Cheek....

    Why I carry a Gun!

    My old grandpa said to me 'Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take an ass whoopin.'
    I don't carry a gun to kill people.
    I carry a gun to keep from being killed.
    I don't carry a gun to scare people.
    I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.
    I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid.
    I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.
    I don't carry a gun because I'm evil.
    I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.
    I don't carry a gun because I hate the government.
    I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.
    I don't carry a gun because I'm angry.
    I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
    I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy.
    I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven, I want to be a cowboy.
    I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
    I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.
    I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
    I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.
    I don't carry a gun because I love it.
    I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.
    Police protection is an oxymoron. When seconds count the Police are minutes away.
    Free citizens must protect themselves.
    Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.
    Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....

    author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

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