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Thread: Iberian Men Wiped Out by Indo-Europeans

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    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Iberian Men Wiped Out by Indo-Europeans

    Spanish Men Were Completely Wiped Out By The Arrival Of A New Tribe 4,000 Years Ago


    There goes the neighborhood. A study has suggested that Spanish males were completely wiped out by the arrival of a new culture during the Bronze Age.

    As reported by New Scientist, and presented at the New Scientist Live event in London last weekend, researchers have been studying the DNA of people that lived in Europe and Asia several thousand years ago.

    The latest results, presented by David Reich of the Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts, concern the arrival of a group of people in Europe known as the Yamnaya. With the newly invented wheel and domesticated horses, they were able to expand like few others.

    “These people spread over a vast territory from Mongolia to Hungary and into Europe, and are the single primary most important contributors to Europeans today,” said Reich.

    About 4,500 years ago they arrived in Britain, replacing 90 percent of the gene pool, possibly as a result of the diseases they brought and climate change. But on the Iberian Peninsula, something more dramatic took place.

    It appears there was some sort of “violent conquest”, notes New Scientist, where local males were either killed or enslaved and the females claimed by the Yamnaya. This is evidenced by a “complete Y-chromosome replacement,” according to Reich. In other words, Spanish men disappeared completely from the gene pool.

    Other research has also highlighted the dramatic shifts in population as a result of the Yamnaya arriving. It’s thought that they replaced half of Europe’s genetic ancestry within a few hundred years, with a study last year suggesting 10 men for every one woman migrated into Europe as part of the group – an “extreme” ratio.

    The Yamnaya were also likely responsible for the spread of Indo-European languages in Western Europe, which explains why they’re spoken so far from Asia. Much of their practices are thought to have been ingrained into European culture, too.

    While we’ve known for a while the impact the Yamnaya had on Europe, this latest research from Reich and his colleagues highlights just how large that change was. And for the men of Spain, it was a change that saw them completely wiped off the map.
    Source (IFLScience)
    Original Source (New Scientist) (Unfortunately behind a Paywall)

    Don't mess with the Indo-Europeans.

    While a total extermination of local male lines in Iberia is certainly extreme, the 90% population replacement in Britain is far more important because it affected both male and female lines alike. Whereas the Indo-Europeans seem to have brought few of their women to Iberia.

    I'm not entirely sure if the male replacement was really (near) total because, while the amount of R1b-M269 haplogroups(especially P312) connected to the Indo-Europeans in modern Iberia is among the highest in Europe, there are clearly some lines that look Neolithic, like G2a, E1b1b1a1b1a(E-V13), J2, I2 and T.
    But it's of course possible, that some of these were acquired by the Indo-Europeans on their way to Iberia(some I2 lines were already found in the Yamnaya anyway) or, even more likely, came with later southern migrations from Greece, Carthage/Phoenicia, various regions of the Roman Empire and the Moors.
    We will see when the actual study is out, if they have enough samples of ancient DNA and none of those other lines are found, it's save to assume, that these came with later migrations.
    "Stürzten wir wohl im Dunkel – wir starben nicht! Immer war Sehnsucht die Straße und Ziel das Licht.
    Immer war Kraft wie lebendiges Bauernkorn, Immer wehte die Fahne des Glaubens vorn.
    Tausend Jahre war Deutschland der Hölle nah – Tausend Jahre sprach Gott zu Deutschland: Ja!"

    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


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    Interesting, I have I2. Hope we'll have more info soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    Interesting, I have I2. Hope we'll have more info soon.
    Do you remember when you got your I2b1 results or the specific maker? They've changed the phylogeny/definitions of haplogroup I a lot in the last years. What was I2b before 2010 is now actually I2a2 and I2b1 is I2a2a.
    The subclade currently defined as I2b is a very uncommon, rather obscure marker. That you belong to it is higly unlikely(although not impossible, of course).
    I2a2a on the other hand is quite common in Germanic Europe and peaks in Germany and Denmark.
    "Stürzten wir wohl im Dunkel – wir starben nicht! Immer war Sehnsucht die Straße und Ziel das Licht.
    Immer war Kraft wie lebendiges Bauernkorn, Immer wehte die Fahne des Glaubens vorn.
    Tausend Jahre war Deutschland der Hölle nah – Tausend Jahre sprach Gott zu Deutschland: Ja!"

    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Do you remember when you got your I2b1 results or the specific maker? They've changed the phylogeny/definitions of haplogroup I a lot in the last years. What was I2b before 2010 is now actually I2a2 and I2b1 is I2a2a.
    The subclade currently defined as I2b is a very uncommon, rather obscure marker. That you belong to it is higly unlikely(although not impossible, of course).
    I2a2a on the other hand is quite common in Germanic Europe and peaks in Germany and Denmark.
    I did the test in 2011 or prior, I can't see the specific registration date on 23andme.

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    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    I did the test in 2011 or prior, I can't see the specific registration date on 23andme.
    If you're still active with that 23andme account they should have updated it in some way, I guess. What does it currently say there?
    "Stürzten wir wohl im Dunkel – wir starben nicht! Immer war Sehnsucht die Straße und Ziel das Licht.
    Immer war Kraft wie lebendiges Bauernkorn, Immer wehte die Fahne des Glaubens vorn.
    Tausend Jahre war Deutschland der Hölle nah – Tausend Jahre sprach Gott zu Deutschland: Ja!"

    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    If you're still active with that 23andme account they should have updated it in some way, I guess. What does it currently say there?
    Just checked: Maternal haplogroup is J2a1a1b, paternal haplogroup is I-M223.

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