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Thread: Ivan Bilibin and Konstantin Vasiliev [Paintings of Ancient Rus]

  1. #1
    svarog
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    Arrow Ivan Bilibin and Konstantin Vasiliev [Paintings of Ancient Rus]

    I want to introduce you two great Russian artists: Ivan Bilibin (1876-1942) and Konstantin Vasiliev (1897-1976). I am big fan of both of them and of that great nordic atmosphere that you can see and feel in their art.

    Ivan Bilibin



















    Konstantin Vasiliev

    Battle with the dragon


    Svyatogor's gift


    Valkiria


    Wotan


    Spell of the fire


    The North Eagle


    Sventovit


    Valkiria over a slain warrior


    Paintings dedicated to WWII

    Invasion


    Slav's farewell


    There are many more, I am just afraid they won't fit on this page.

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    Lupu Fenris
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    Lovely paintings...but the Wotan one looks more like Tyr to me, just an opinion based on a lot of descriptions I've read.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Wotan is usually described as one-eyed, and wearing a blue wide-brimmed hat or hood.

    Tyr was a one-handed God, also known as Tiw, Thorburn [Tues-day is named after him].
    He was thought to be the original ruler of the Asir, but was deposed by Wotan; his Rune is the spearhead, he being a God of War and Justice.

    He lost his hand after Fenris Wolf bit it off [he placed it in the Wolf's jaws as a pledge].
    Last edited by Moody; Wednesday, March 5th, 2003 at 08:37 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member NatRev's Avatar
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    WOW!

    Excellent pictures. Thankyou for enlightening us with these great paintings, Bilbin reminds me of 'fairy tale' drawings I used to have in a book on mythology as a kid, absolutely amazing images.

    I'd say that Sventovit looks more like Tyr but I see where you're coming from.

    I sort of imagine Wotan as being the 'daddy' of the Gods and so looking older (40-50), although historically Tyr and Thor (were they the same gods originally???) are much older, they became replaced by Wotan who was much more an aristocratic God, a god of writing, poetry, divinity and war. Tyr and Thor may have originally been like Mars and gods of the Earth as well as War but I think they were 'rural male' gods and sort of became gods of many things, eventually after other deities were incorporated into the group pantheon, they became more specialised.

    Tyr's one hand reminds the warrior that ultimately, if he is to fight, he must be prepared to sacrifice himself or at least part of himself for the survival of the tribe.

    To Moody Lawless and anyone else that can help:

    I am interested in your views on the Vanir and Aesir, I get the impression they were two tribal nations, the former being more agrarian and probably pre-bronze age, the latter might be a nomadic warrior tribe who invaded several thousand years ago.

    Does this fit in with any racial migration theories of north Europeans?



    Regards

    ps, I think my favourite is "Svyatogor's gift", who was he, was he a king or a God? Do you know if he corresponds to a Nordic counterpart?

    Thanks

    J
    "Only through a re-integration of Humanity into the whole of Nature can our People be made stronger."

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Vanir and Aesir

    Yes, I too believe that the Vanir represent the Old European pre-Aryan agrarian populations who were subjugated by the later Aryan invaders.

    This does fit in with the evidence of Indo-European[or Aryan] intrusions into Europe, beginning about 3,000 BC with invasions into Anatolia and the Balkans.
    The horse is reckoned to be introduced into those regions by the Aryan invaders who came from the Pontic steppe.
    This is the Early Bronze Age, of course.
    It is thought that Aryans now settled in Anatolia/the Balkans then went on to invade Greece around 2,000 BC.

    The Norse myths talk of the two tribes or (sub-)races of the Vanir and the Aesir.
    The Vanir [name means the 'Beautiful Ones'] were Fertility gods who guarded the fruitfulness of the sea and the earth as well as the procreation of all creatures [including man] in the world.
    They were gentle and creative, and distrusted the other race of gods, the Aesir [name's meaning not known, but Snorri Sturuluson thinks it is from 'Asia', others think it to mean 'The Old'; the former is based on his folk knowledge of the Aesir's migration from 'Asia' into Europe].

    The Vanir were noted for their abilities as seers and magicians, and included shamanism among their practices. Their connection to the Soil and to feminine mysteries make them typically pre-Aryan and ROOTED.

    The Aesir were war gods and creator gods - gods of the Sky; nomadic, yes, - and riding into battle on chariots [it was probably this superior technology that allowed the Aryans to conquer Europe].

    War erupted between the Vanir and Aesir which ended in a truce where hostages were exchanged.
    To Gunther this symbolises the Aesir "absorbing" the Vanir, but without "reinterpreting" them in a thoroughly Aryan spirit.
    So to Gunther, the "non-Aryan" aspects of Norse mythology are due to this subracial combination between the Vanir and the Aesir [see Gunther, 'Religious Attitudes of the Indo-Europeans'].

    The Vanir betrayed the truce and beheaded one of their Aesir hostages, sending the severed head back to the Aesir.
    This was a great mistake as the head [Mimir's head] became the fount of all wisdom and allowed the Aesir to eclipse the gods of the Vanir.
    However, it should be noted that one of the Vanir [Honir, a hostage to the Aesir, and the one who breathed life into the first men] will survive Ragnarok.

    A development of this view brings in the 'war of the functions'.
    In Aryan society there are usually three strata, viewed in descending order of caste;

    1. Warriors,
    2. Priests,
    3. Cultivators.

    It is thought that the Aryan invaders comprised of 1. and 2. [another subracial combination in itself?].
    When they pushed out of the Aryan homeland and fell upon those agrarian populations the caste of 3. was created.
    The Eddas have a tale called the Lay of Rig which presents these three functions in subracial terms.

    So the war between the Vanir and the Aesir is the war between 3.[Vanir], and the allied forces of 1. and 2.[Aryans]
    The outcome is Aryan society and its High Culture, whether Indic, Hellenic, Roman or Germanic.

    Mallory says of this;

    "Certain striking parallels concerning the Roman account of the Sabine War, the Norse myth concerning the war between the Aesir and the Vanir, and the Indic epic 'Mahabharata' have provided some support for a Proto-Indo-European 'War of the Functions' ..." "... Indeed, the 'Iliad' [Homer] itself has been examined in a similar light".
    [Mallory, 'in Search of the Indo-Europeans' page 139]

    So the hypothesis is a safe one, and like all 'myth', it repays meditation on the intricacies of its meaning.
    Last edited by Moody; Wednesday, March 5th, 2003 at 08:36 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member NatRev's Avatar
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    Was Kvasir a mixture off all the Aesirs and Vanirs?

    This seems to ring a bell in my head.
    "Only through a re-integration of Humanity into the whole of Nature can our People be made stronger."

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    In some accounts Kvasir is of the Vanir, sent to make peace with the Aesir; in other accounts he is formed from the spittle of BOTH Vanir and Aesir when they make a peace truce by spitting into the same bowl.

    So Kvasir is borne of this mixture of Vanir and Aesir.
    He gets murdered, however, and his Blood becomes the Mead of Poetry.

    There is much suggestive stuff there; also I am reminded of the famous Middle Ages account of the pagan Viking Rus by the Muslim traveller Ibn Fadlan.
    He describes how the Vikings pass around a single washing bowl with which each bathes and spits into, before handing the bowl onto the next to do the same, and so on.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Steptoe & Son

    I seem to remember an episode of Steptoe & Son where Wilfred Bramble makes a deal with someone, to seal the contract he spits on his hand and shakes the other chaps hand, (UGH!).

    Was this common practice amongst the working classes a generation or two ago in the UK?
    "Only through a re-integration of Humanity into the whole of Nature can our People be made stronger."

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    Post I believe that the working classes call 'spittle', 'gob'.

    If that is so, then it is yet another example of the 'Nordic origins of the ancient Rus'.

    Of course, the Viking Rus practice of sharing saliva within the tribe meant sharing antibodies, and so has a practical advantage.

    Have you read Ibn Fadlan's account of the ancient Rus?
    Some of the practices described there are hardly savoury, and would be thought by our puritans to be 'un-Nordic'.

    Rune Master Edred Thorsson has made a useful translation of Ibn Fadlan.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Vanir and Aesir

    Originally posted by Moody Lawless
    Yes, I too believe that the Vanir represent the Old European pre-Aryan agrarian populations who were subjugated by the later Aryan invaders.

    This does fit in with the evidence of Indo-European[or Aryan] intrusions into Europe, beginning about 3,000 BC with invasions into Anatolia and the Balkans. The horse is reckoned to be introduced into those regions by the Aryan invaders who came from the Pontic steppe. This is the Early Bronze Age, of course. It is thought that Aryans now settled in Anatolia/the Balkans then went on to invade Greece around 2,000 BC.

    The Norse myths talk of the two tribes or (sub-)races of the Vanir and the Aesir. The Vanir [name means the 'Beautiful Ones'] were Fertility gods who guarded the fruitfulness of the sea and the earth as well as the procreation of all creatures [including man] in the world.

    They were gentle and creative, and distrusted the other race of gods, the Aesir [name's meaning not known, but Snorri Sturuluson thinks it is from 'Asia', others think it to mean 'The Old'; the former is based on his folk knowledge of the Aesir's migration from 'Asia' into Europe].

    The Vanir were noted for their abilities as seers and magicians, and included shamanism among their practices. Their connection to the Soil and to feminine mysteries make them typically pre-Aryan and ROOTED.

    * 8000 - 4000 - Jericho: cultivated wheat farming arrived in Southern Europe about 7000 BC and spread to Central Europe (with a signature "LBK'' pottery) about 5500 BC, developing into the Funnel-Beaker Culture (TRB) of Central European farmers about 4000 BC. LBK: dolicho-mesocranial, long face with receding malars, inclined forehead and high orbits: Proto-Nordic

    The cranioskeletal series of the Linearbandkeramik People from Alsace, Western Germany, Central Germany, Czechoslovakia and Austria do not make up a homogeneous population. The western types are more gracile built than in the east, having higher as well longer crania, lower but broader faces and broader noses.

    These series have been compared to the mesolithic series from Brittany,Portugal and a pooled centraleuropean series encompassing the LBK zone and the distances by multivariate analyses are low, except in individual measurements: the central europeans and brittany having broader and lower faces.

    However, series of early Neolithics from the central balkans(Vinça), Bulgaria and Greece are closer to the LBK than the mesolithics, but it doesn't support a SE European descency of the LBK, because the measurements deviate in the same rate as with the mesolithics, notwithstanding the narrower faces.

    I think that Vanir may be Coon's Danubians and very Proto-Nordic. Still according to Lundman, the Battle Axe people had lots of Pontic types. But a part of the LBK adopted wheelchairs without any racial mixture. But are we sure that LBK and early Battle Axe types were different in race.

    As Lundman's dolichocephal Bruennid Pontics stand ahead of the corded people perhaps in the first flood these people came to the continental Europe.

    Battle Axe, a broader faced Irano-Afgan types, are a later and are pushed from Asia as Asia gets drier.

    In fact farming as Pontics are dominantly dolichocephal - those farmers may even be of Phalian Nordics with a Danubian Middle eastern minority (and seems very likely to be this way) so I may not agree with Renfrew, who proposed that IE was brought with farming.

    I am very likely to think IE is indigeneous to continental Europe, as I cannot think other way but associate Uralic with Lapponoids but not Corded.**

    The Aesir were war gods and creator gods - gods of the Sky; nomadic, yes, - and riding into battle on chariots [it was probably this superior technology that allowed the Aryans to conquer Europe]. War erupted between the Vanir and Aesir which ended in a truce where hostages were exchanged.

    To Gunther this symbolizes the Aesir "absorbing" the Vanir, but without "reinterpreting" them in a thoroughly Aryan spirit. So to Gunther, the "non-Aryan" aspects of Norse mythology are due to this subracial combination between the Vanir and the Aesir [see Gunther, 'Religious Attitudes of the Indo-Europeans'].

    The Vanir betrayed the truce and beheaded one of their Aesir hostages, sending the severed head back to the Aesir. This was a great mistake as the head [Mimir's head] became the fount of all wisdom and allowed the Aesir to eclipse the gods of the Vanir. However, it should be noted that one of the Vanir [Honir, a hostage to the Aesir, and the one who breathed life into the first men] will survive Ragnarok.

    A development of this view brings in the 'war of the functions'. In Aryan society there are usually three strata, viewed in descending order of caste;

    1. Warriors
    2. Priests
    3. Cultivators


    ** That is another reason i tend to think about the presence of UP phalians as farmers. pastoral nomadism is mostly associated with military democratic sociologic organization. but in winter times nomadics suffer alot but farmers may feed a regular and professional army. if these sociaological classes had not formed before the invasion of nomads the result would be a complete decay of the society. it is like the formation of feodalism in france when pastoral nomadic germanics entered france they collabrated with roman remnants to form and continue the roman slavery based farming. **


    It is thought that the Aryan invaders comprised of 1. and 2. [another subracial combination in itself?]. When they pushed out of the Aryan homeland and fell upon those agrarian populations the caste of 3. was created. The Eddas have a tale called the Lay of Rig which presents these three functions in subracial terms.

    So the war between the Vanir and the Aesir is the war between 3.[Vanir], and the allied forces of 1. and 2.[Aryans] The outcome is Aryan society and its High Culture, whether Indic, Hellenic, Roman or Germanic.

    * So I may propose that war is between the Phalians and Lundman's Bruennids. So the classification of Aryan remnants in India will be of golden precious. As Irano-Afghan BA seems to be indigenous to North India and Afghanistan so if we see Pontic or Phalian remnants this will be the proof of this continental IE hypothesis.**


    Mallory says of this: "Certain striking parallels concerning the Roman account of the Sabine War, the Norse myth concerning the war between the Aesir and the Vanir, and the Indic epic 'Mahabharata' have provided some support for a Proto-Indo-European 'War of the Functions' ..." "... Indeed, the 'Iliad' [Homer] itself has been examined in a similar light". [Mallory, 'in Search of the Indo-Europeans' page 139]

    So the hypothesis is a safe one, and like all 'myth', it repays meditation on the intricacies of its meaning.
    As a side note this hypothesis is introduced to me by F. and i would appreciate a comment.

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