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Thread: Eisernes Kreuz / Iron Cross

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagdmesser View Post
    Data base of photos of the range of WK II EK1's etc.

    Certainly of interest to collectors.

    EK1-DNA
    I was initially puzzled when I noticed the swastika was replaced with an X on the medals. Then I realized portraying the swastika is illegal in some places.
    Aside from an ever increasing number of mortals who have willfully chosen to worship Satan and his minions, our battle has always been against the powers and principalities operating surreptitiously throughout this twisted world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gareth Lee Hunter View Post
    I was initially puzzled when I noticed the swastika was replaced with an X on the medals. Then I realized portraying the swastika is illegal in some places.
    The swastika is not illegal, the 'hakenkreuz' is.
    ''Ginds de Waal, daar weer de IJssel, dan de Maas en ook de Rijn. Geeft ons recht om heel ons leven trots op Gelderland te zijn.''

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    I found this video on the Iron Cross quite interesting. Didn't know that much about it beforehand.

    kBNZ8ZRrtF0
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

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    Hanna Reitsch the first of three German women to receive the Iron Cross First Class.




    Reitsch was interviewed and photographed several times in the 1970s, towards the end of her life, by Jewish-American photo-journalist Ron Laytner. In her closing remarks she is quoted as saying:

    And what have we now in Germany? A country of bankers and car-makers. Even our great army has gone soft. Soldiers wear beards and question orders. I am not ashamed to say I believed in National Socialism. I still wear the Iron Cross with diamonds Hitler gave me. But today in all of Germany you can't find a single person who voted Adolf Hitler into power ... Many Germans feel guilty about the war. But they don't explain the real guilt we share – that we lost.



    In a little known statement in the same interview, she is quoted as saying,
    I asked Herman Goering one day, "What is this I am hearing that Germany is killing Jews?"

    Goering responded angrily, 'A totally outrageous lie made up by the British and American press. It will be used as a rope to hang us someday if we lose the war.'




    • 1932: women's gliding endurance record (5.5 hours)




    • 1936: women's gliding distance record (305 km (190 mi))




    • 1937: first woman to cross the Alps in a glider




    • 1937: the first woman in the world to be promoted to flight captain by Colonel Ernst Udet








    • 1937: world distance record in a helicopter (109 km (68 mi))








    • 1938: winner of German national gliding competition Sylt-Breslau (Silesia)




    • 1939: women's world record in gliding for point-to-point flight.




    • 1943: While in the Luftwaffe, the first woman to pilot a rocket plane (Messerschmitt Me 163). She survived a disastrous crash though with severe injuries and because of this she became the first of three German women to receive the Iron Cross First Class.












    • 1955: German gliding champion




    • 1956: German gliding distance record (370 km (230 mi))




    • 1957: German gliding altitude record (6,848 m (22,467 ft))






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    Iron Cross with Golden Rays


    P 317

    This evening (wrote Admiral Müller on March 23 in his diary) His Majesty returned from Avesnes bearing news of the successes. To the guard on the platform he shouted as the train pulled in: “The battle is won, the English have been utterly defeated.”

    There was champagne for dinner. The communiqué was read telling of our great victory under the personal leadership of His Majesty the Emperor . . .

    The Kaiser went even further in his extravagant anticipation of victory. He presented Hindenburg with the Iron Cross with Golden Rays, a decoration that even the great Moltke had not merited, and which had last been awarded to Blücher after Waterloo.



    THE SWORDBEARERS Supreme Command in the First World War by Correlli Barnett.


    The Grand Cross of the Iron Cross was a decoration intended for victorious generals of the Prussian Army and its allies. It was the highest (normally awarded) class of the Iron Cross. Along with the Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class, the Grand Cross was founded on March 10, 1813, during the Napoleonic Wars. It was renewed in 1870 for the Franco-Prussian War and again in 1914 for World War I. In 1939, when Adolf Hitler renewed the Iron Cross as a German (rather than strictly Prussian) decoration, he also renewed the Grand Cross.


    The Grand Cross of the Iron Cross was twice the size of the Iron Cross and was worn from a ribbon around the neck. The later Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross, instituted in 1939, was also worn from the neck; it was smaller than the Grand Cross but larger than the Iron Cross.

  12. #8

    Hitler's EK 1


    Believe it or not, this is what i know about Hitler's EK 1.



    I've picked up this story from a good collector friend of mine.


    There is a large collection in Norway including Dr. Goebbels uniform, a Von Ribbentrop uniform, Göring's hunting cabinet, a globe given to Göring from Hitler, one of Hitler's visor's and a lot more.


    The owner also has Adolf Hitler's first EK1, the actual one he got during WW1, not one of his many examples but the actual cross he got in WW1. The cross was given to Austria as a present from Hitler in a special frame. It was hanging in a town hall, museum, NSDAP party hall or something like that. The cross was taken as a trophy by the russians if i remember correctly, and it's now in the collection in Norway. I have never seen the cross in person or on photo, but those i have the story from is fully trustable and honest collector's. I know that the Hitler visor was displayed in a military shop in Norway when it opened, they had to have police guards.


    I don't know any more about the EK1, but i will contact one here that possibly do.


    Jon-Olav, Norway.




    M

    My understanding is that Hitler's cross is supposed to be by unknown maker "KO" -- I have read this, but have no information otherwise. KO was "Konigliches Munzamt Orden of Berlin"




    Did he decorate himself with RitterKreuz (Knights Cross), DKiG ?
    No.
    He only wore the blood order, EK and wound badge.
    Look at Goering, Himmler and the others.
    Field Marshals were decorated with RK mit diamonds cause they led soldiers from bunkers.
    Hitler led all the Reich and did not get any RK or something. Think about that.
    Hitler only wore the awards from WW1 and blood order .





    I was watching a documentary on Hitlers rise to power tonight,(fatal attraction of Hitler part 1) and did see him in the early years wearing a slightly vaulted cross.He was speaking, and turned to the side, and i immediately knew i was incorrect.


    I had never seen him wear but flat versions,and always paid attention any time I saw him in films .... so i recant him only having a flat one, and agree he must have had flat and slightly vaulted both.


    I agree with the other individual George ... that said they saw him wearing a vaulted version. He had to have had both types. But the one i saw was not a seriously vaulted example.


    Evidently in WW1 at flanders , Hitler was a messenger to the trenches, and won the Iron Cross there, and one more time after. So he was awarded it twice. I would imagine the 2nd class first, then the first class as his second.


    Hitler stated that the winning of the Iron Cross was the happiest day of his life. Those who knew him heard him say so.


    He earned it running through miles of trenches in mud up to his knees, while dodging artillery bombardment, and snipers. He was also blinded for several weeks by a gas attack, so possibly that's where he got the wound badge.


    They claimed he led a group out of the gas, by divine intervention, as they held on to each others coat tails,trusting him in a long procession. It was supposedly in the hospital while blind that he had visions of the future to come, then all at once his sight returned miraculously.




    I also know a big collector who in 68 argued with me that Hitlers party badge was #seven, and that he owned one. I felt he had to have number 1, but he would never agree with me, but then again a german 1 look like a 7 . He still holds to this opinion to this day..


    I think Hitler... after joining the party with a higher number,... revamped the membership numbers later after taking control of the NSDAP...to make his number #1.






    "Hitler, much as many would like him to have been a coward and a shirker, was in fact a very good soldier. He remained calm under fire, showed respect to his superiors and never questioned his orders. Whilst casualties mounted and morale fell away, Hitler unstintingly carried on with his duty. He was rewarded with a promotion to Lance Corporal.


    As the fighting continued the List regiment was used in a number of assaults just to the south of Ypres. Facing the French this time, the Germans received yet another mauling. Hitler earned an Iron Cross 2nd Class in an engagement near Croonaert Wood, Wytschaete. During the fighting and under heavy fire, Hitler, now appointed Meldeganger (a dispatch runner), stumbled across a seriously wounded officer left out in the open.


    Along with a friend, he managed to pull the wounded man back to safety. Hitler received his award in December 1914. The action at the First Ypres decimated his regiment. Hitler wrote to his Munich landlord reporting that only 600 men were left out of approximately 3500. Colonel List was among the fatalities.


    On 4 August 1918, with the Germans in the last throes of their grand offensive, Hitler received an Iron Cross 1st Class for, 'personal bravery and general merit.' He had single handily captured a group of Frenchmen huddled in a shell hole. Cunningly, Hitler had crawled to the lip of their impromptu shelter and then shouted out to the men that they were surrounded and had better surrender. Duped by his ruse, the Frenchmen came along without a fight.


    The Iron Cross First Class gave Hitler the reward, recognition and the status that he deserved. The prize was rare for officers - but rarer still for non-commissioned ranks. It was official recognition of his bravery and honour"


    The above quote is from www.firstworldwar.com



    In direct response to Kraals statement about luck, I would imagine that luck played a part in Hitler surviving 4+years in the trenches as it no doubt would in any soldiers war time career.




    Iron Cross 1st Class - Wehrmacht-Awards.com 05 V 2020.




  13. #9

    'Fakes' FLOCH - who was he? Was there a main medal forger called Floch?




    I was very lucky to go to school in Germany in the late 50s. Anyone who thinks the hay day of the bogus badge has not seen the traffic in badges during that time in Germany. The Iron Cross was king everyone sunning themselves on the banks of the Neckar in Heidelburg was approached by a student hawking his dads Iron Cross. It was that magic time when the troubles of the war faded and the mostly imaginary heroics were starting to form a more concrete facade.


    I remember my first experience of a fellow student selling me his dads Iron Cross, I became suspicious when I saw him selling a few tourists "His dads Iron Cross" We became good friends until he passed in 1989 . Then I realized I was approached by at least a dozen students all with their "dads iron cross" It was a real cottage industry anyone with the ability to make inexpensive costume jewellery was knocking out some sort of war bobble.



    One family I visited had baskets of Knights Crosses and First Class Crosses all over the house. Then I found DAD he was in a shop in back of the house, You guess it there he was making a 'DADS IRON CROSS'. In the 1960s I sent for and sold thousands of these at the gun shows all through the southern states. They were a side line but it was nothing to sell 10 to 20 at a show. I would get $10.00 to $20. 00 each. I paid $3.00 each when I purchased 100 or more. Only once did someone question if it was made before the end of the war. I told him it was made a month ago but he told me it was before the end of the war as it would attract a magnet. I never argue with an expert!

    Tom.



    Today the fakers are making them so good that it is near impossible to distinguish from the W.W.II originals. As far as quality found in the production of the Iron Cross 2nd, it was just as good as a Knights Cross. It was regarded as a high honor from the time it was re-instituted by Hitler in 1939 until the end of the war. Regardless of the "Daddy's Iron Crosses", many old time firms sold off their existing stocks after the war and they have been reproduced then for as long. Experience and a trained eye can spot the fakes. The so called "Daddy's Iron Cross Factories" never existed except in the mind of an illusionist, a fake monger or a student of Hans Christian Anderson. As my favorite person of the past, Robert Ripley, always said, "BELIEVE IT OR BELIEVE IT NOT."


    WCSTUMP

    Iron Cross Fakes? - Axis History Forum


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