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Thread: Incels/Inceldom

  1. #41
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    This also implies that if a culture does not force monogamy upon its members, women will naturally gravitate to a very small number of men - that group consists of successful men and the shitlord bad boy types.
    Imposing monogamy in its strictest form (ie. having only ONE sexual partner during one's lifetime) seems very harsh to me and could only be enforced via means that would take us back to the Middle Ages. This is not to say that some of the current excesses couldn't be discouraged but there needs to be a balance.

    Comparisons with prehistoric societies are not ideal because life expectancy was barely above 30 years back then and there are many other parallels that are also invalid.

    There's some truth in the claim that women go for the types of men mentioned above in disproportionate numbers but I think the extent to which this happens has been grossly exaggerated. The best asset you can have when seeking a partner is to be physically attractive.

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  3. #42
    Sound methods Chlodovech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson
    Comparisons with prehistoric societies are not ideal because life expectancy was barely above 30 years back then
    And how would a life that only lasts 30 years work as an argument in favor - or at least be an explanation - for polygamy? Or hypergamy? I don't see it. It seems irrelevant for the debate regarding prehistoric incels versus modern ones. Or the natural preferences of women. Or stability and progress.

    Imposing monogamy in its strictest form (ie. having only ONE sexual partner during one's lifetime) seems very harsh to me and could only be enforced via means that would take us back to the Middle Ages
    I'm not advocating the strictest form of monogamy though, just the traditional one. Of course children should have a say in the matter as well.

    In Catholic Medieval Europe you could remarry when widowed and you could always run off with the person you truly loved and marry in secret too - there's nothing your parents could do about that. People having sex before marriage is inevitable - enforced monogamy is not about prudishness today (and not so much in the Middle Ages either), this is about doing something about the 30% of single adults in the West and the children who are left behind when parents divorce.

    There's some truth in the claim that women go for the types of men mentioned above in disproportionate numbers but I think the extent to which this happens has been grossly exaggerated
    Maybe it's somewhat exaggerated, not sure. The "singles market" today is different from when you were between the ages of 20-40, Godwinson. If what goes on at OK Cupid and Tinder indicates anything, it's that young women rate over 80% of their male counterparts as "below average", which makes no sense. It seems like rather strong evidence for it being completely true.
    “Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no-one is too poor to buy.” - C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    Perhaps the problem is many young men who follow the path of nationalism or cultural preservationist tend to over obsess with just these things?
    I really agree with this. Whenever I see the "I can't find a nationalist woman" argument, I feel it to be an excuse for not having to try to find a woman. The problem is not so much that there aren't many nationalists among women, it's rather that you're focussed on a specific image of the woman you wan't to have without being willing to get her. Having mainstream political views would not change your position at all, since you would still not be prepared to go through the trial and error process of dating, courting, etc. Whether it's about political views, character or hobbies; finding a girlfriend is not about selecting a set of criteria and than making a deal with someone who fits these criteria. For men who think a lack of nationalist/traditionalist women is the reason for them being single the first step would be to acknowledge that the real problem is that they are not willing (or are frightened) to put an effort into finding a partner. Once you acknowledge this, you know that what you have to work on, is to go out and meet people and put effort into getting to know them and having a good time with them even when they don't immediately fit your ideal portrait of a partner. The truth is, noone ever does in the beginning. And in those rare cases when they do, you'll probably eventually find out that you were wrong.
    It's no use being an ideologist in the game of love. Moreover, the ideal picture of nationalists/traditionalists is simply to have a nice family life with children; regardless of ideology, there are few women who don't want this.

    And aside from that, a lot of women tend to simply adopt the political views of their male partner.

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson View Post
    Comparisons with prehistoric societies are not ideal because life expectancy was barely above 30 years back then and there are many other parallels that are also invalid.
    There's a valid point about not comparing past and present circumstances too strictly, but I don't believe life spans was that much different in pre-historic times. Life expectancy at birth was something entirely different than life expect. at 14, for example, due to the immense death rate among newborns and young children, before the advent of modern medicine. Once a person got into early adulthood, and marriageable age, their life span was not too different from today.
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

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  9. #45
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    And how would a life that only lasts 30 years work as an argument in favor - or at least be an explanation - for polygamy? Or hypergamy? I don't see it. It seems irrelevant for the debate regarding prehistoric incels versus modern ones. Or the natural preferences of women. Or stability and progress.
    Well, Chlod, my comments about the dangers of comparing today’s incels with prehistoric ones were of a general nature and not intended to address any specific issue such as polygamy.

    As far as I’m concerned, there isn’t a 'modern v. prehistoric incels' debate because nobody has a clue what was happening 8000 years ago and the article to which you linked is based on pure speculation. All we know for sure is that the social dynamics must have been vastly different in a world with a total population of just 10 million people.

    The "singles market" today is different from when you were between the ages of 20-40, Godwinson.
    Yes, but the singles market of the 70's & 80's was different to what it was for my parents, who in turn had to cope with different circumstances to their parents. My dear old gran (1906-2004) once told me that there was enormous competition for men in the 1920's because so many of them had been killed in the Great War and you should check out sometime what went on during the "Roaring Twenties"

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  11. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech View Post
    Maybe it's somewhat exaggerated, not sure. The "singles market" today is different from when you were between the ages of 20-40, Godwinson. If what goes on at OK Cupid and Tinder indicates anything, it's that young women rate over 80% of their male counterparts as "below average", which makes no sense. It seems like rather strong evidence for it being completely true.
    I am almost 10 years junior of Godwinson and difference is not so much how the young ladies are acting it is how the young men are acting comparing from when I was young man to now. Yes, I have friends in their 20s or more sons of friends so I do notice things on a personal level. At the risk of offending some here I will have to say this, if young men back in my day acted like they do now they would get their asses kicked for being fags. It just seems our generation was a lot tougher and more manly. This toughness and showing the ability to take care of yourself and provide attracted women as it does today, its just some of these youth are wimps and maybe they need a little real life violence or adversity instead of playing video games and talking like femes.

    We are not the only ones noticing this, corporate America notices as well. There are host of radio and TV commercials trying to get men to buy testosterone enhancers ( they sound very unhealthy to me). Here is one such example watch the video:

    https://www.ispot.tv/ad/w4mX/force-f...merica-walmart

    Also on this point I remember a Bevis and Butthead skit where they are cavemen and they got the "chicks" and could "score" because they were brutes. While you might not think Bevis and Butthead are good examples they are a reflection on modern culture. Sure its about more than "scoring" but keep in mind some of these guys are only in their twenties. Sorry I can't find the B&B episode.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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  13. #47
    Senior Member Aelfgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spearbrave
    if young men back in my day acted like they do now they would get their asses kicked for being fags.
    If you kicked someone's faggy ass today your actions would be branded a hate crime and an example of "toxic masculinity" - a video of the event would be all over YouTube. You'd be in trouble. So not worth it. It would do more harm than good. This is the stuff lefties live for: a story with unmanly victims and straight white male oppressors.

    We are constantly told by women that they don't need us, such behaviour is not an incentive to being or becoming a man's man. At some point you say "fine, I'm going my own way then", if you have any selfrespect. At least you retain your freedom and some dignity then. I can't wait for the day AI ahd robotics replace the jobs women are active in, that will be a massive game changer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard
    Whenever I see the "I can't find a nationalist woman" argument, I feel it to be an excuse for not having to try to find a woman.
    The incel issue is not a trad. nat. matter however, I don't know of any nationalist incels, yet we had a handful of members like that in the past. Although the 80/20 rule seems all too real in our circles too. But this is about young, single men in general. It also affects men from other races living in Western countries, incels are not predominantly of Anglo or Germanic descent. Half of their community on Reddit consists of foreigners and minorities. But my advice to trad. nat. guys who are looking for an ideological compatible girlfriend is to forget about it, the pool you're fishing in is too small and the competition very stiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson
    Nobody has a clue what was happening 8000 years ago and the article to which you linked is based on pure speculation.
    The DNA doesn't lie, it's true that we're in the dark as to exactly why polygamy was the norm 8000 years ago, but it's an educated guess to say it's because some men were hoarding all the women with their explicit permission or at least that of the tribal leadership. All we have to do is to look at the better documented polygamous societies of the past 2000 years and draw parallels. What else could it have been? It's quite inconceivable that only one in seventeen prehistoric men was inclined to breed. There must've been something terribly wrong with their culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson
    My dear old gran (1906-2004) once told me that there was enormous competition for men in the 1920's because so many of them had been killed in the Great War and you should check out sometime what went on during the "Roaring Twenties"
    At the closing of the Great War British girls were told that only a small number of them would ever find a husband due to the many fatalities, which were vastly overestimated at the time. This led to anxiety on the part of girls and young women. It turned out to be a myth. The girls got all married, but the myth stuck. The Twenties and Thirties saw the emergence of youth subcultures for the first time, I don't doubt it was more difficult to find a proper wife then than twenty years earlier. We're a century later now and we aren't even talking about finding wives anymore, but the problem of taking the first baby steps which could ultimately lead to a relationship. It's a slippery slope.

    For a small group of men getting sex was never easier than it is today - which is not conducive to marrying/sticking with a woman, especially not for the player types whom are the men who are having all the sex - for the majority of men it was never more difficult.
    “Remember that all worlds draw to an end and that noble death is a treasure which no-one is too poor to buy.” - C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle

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  17. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech View Post
    If you kicked someone's faggy ass today your actions would be branded a hate crime and an example of "toxic masculinity" - a video of the event would be all over YouTube. You'd be in trouble. So not worth it. It would do more harm than good. This is the stuff lefties live for: a story with unmanly victims and straight white male oppressors.
    Yes, but he would still get the girl and that is the drive goal of a young man in the first place. When as men are we going to quit allowing these lefties and feminist dictate how we live our lives. Let them bitch and carry on and why are we even caring what they think in the first place. I'm not advocating in criminal activity, but these youth need to toughen up somehow.

    We are constantly told by women that they don't need us, such behaviour is not an incentive to being or becoming a man's man. At some point you say "fine, I'm going my own way then", if you have any selfrespect. At least you retain your freedom and some dignity then. I can't wait for the day AI ahd robotics replace the jobs women are active in, that will be a massive game changer.
    Not to start a battle of the sexes here, but we should not be "told" anything by anybody. We are men, we cut our own path, have our own minds and to the hell with anybody else or what they think.

    Funny thing though, its the guys that are tough or stern that are getting the girls and the relationships. I'm not saying being the bad boy type, just saying some of these young men need to start acting like men and quit whining about not getting what they desire. I don't understand a lot of this because I have never had trouble getting a girl or being in a relationship, even the current relationship I'm in happened by a chance meeting for both of us.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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  19. #50
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    This has to be a testosterone issue. Some of the stuff I’ve been reading over the past few years has firmly convinced me of this and it’s the only common denominator I can find to explain why men across the West can no longer get women. If they’re brutally honest with themselves, they’re not interested!

    Just type ‘western testosterone levels’ into Google and you can choose your own source from over 5 million, but here is an excerpt from an article that stood out for me ...

    Testosterone levels in men are declining worldwide alongside sperm counts. The hormone that makes men men is disappearing from the human world. As a result, men are becoming more feminine and choosing the paths of weakness, homosexuality, and cuckoldry. While it’s necessary to look at the ideological causes of leftism in men, the biological reasons must not be ignored, and that starts with an understanding of the testosterone crisis.

    Cultural programming alone cannot explain why Western men are becoming so womanly and fragile. A man who receives blue pill and feminist propaganda through university education, the media, or entertainment will not fully accept that propaganda unless his biochemistry is compatible to it, in part from having low testosterone. His mind accepts more feminine ideas because he is more feminine. You cannot accept masculine truths if your biology lacks a healthy level of testosterone, the chemical building block of masculinity.

    Young men on forums such as this are noticeably unwilling to discuss sex and when they do their comments on the subject are invariably negative. Eg…

    * “Modern women sleep with Negroes” (so here they’re saying that they don’t want to sleep with modern women and have invented an excuse)

    * “I might catch an STD” (again, a risk that is greatly exaggerated in their minds in order to avoid having sex)

    * “How do I know she shares my political views?” (Oh dear! Yet another box to tick … by now the pattern is becoming clear )

    * “I’m a traditionalist and I believe in Victorian values” (..with the image/myth of very little sex taking place … phew! Saved again!!!)

    * “Women are making advances at men these days and this is not their traditional gender role” (< this one leaves me completely speechless )

    * “Women only want sex and I’m looking for a longer-term commitment” (OMG, I was hearing this kind of thing all the time from women back in the 70’s but now it’s the men who are saying it!!! )

    I could go on, including a notorious EP21 thread entitled “The value of virginity” in which it was advocated that all men and women should refrain from sex until they get married. Again, there were young beta males expressing support for this idea and the only members who could see how daft it was were the female ones plus another male the same age as me.

    Seriously, I’m not trying to put young men down but this bears all the hallmarks of failing testosterone. It will be declining in older males too (given that we’re all exposed to the same chemicals in food and environmental toxins etc..) but since we’re no longer looking for mates and accept that levels drop naturally with age anyway, the effects will be felt far less dramatically.

    As for why there seems to be a disproportionate number of incels in the more extreme' right-wing’ circles than elsewhere, I suspect that a percentage of them (that I wouldn’t want to guess) gravitate towards what is a predominantly male scene for the reasons stated above.

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