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Thread: Operation Valkyrie (20 July Plot)

  1. #1
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    Operation Valkyrie (20 July Plot)

    20 July Plot

    On 20 July 1944, Claus von Stauffenberg and other conspirators attempted to assassinate Adolf Hitler, Führer of Nazi Germany, inside his Wolf's Lair field headquarters near Rastenburg, East Prussia. The name Operation Valkyrie, originally referring to part of the conspiracy, has become associated with the entire event. The apparent aim of the assassination attempt was to wrest political control of Germany and its armed forces from the Nazi Party (including the SS) and to make peace with the Western Allies as soon as possible.

    The underlying desire of many of the high-ranking Wehrmacht officers involved was apparently to show the world that not all Germans were like Hitler and the Nazi Party. The details of the conspirators' peace initiatives remain unknown, but they likely would have included unrealistic demands for the confirmation of Germany's extensive annexations of European territory.

    The plot was the culmination of efforts by several groups in the German resistance to overthrow the Nazi German government. The failure of the assassination attempt and the intended military coup d'état that was to follow led the Gestapo to arrest more than 7,000 people, of whom they executed 4,980.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Herr Rentz's Avatar
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    I will have to check my reference material but I believe those arrest and execution figures are greatly exaggerated.

    As I said, I will have to check but I believe the figures are closer to 2000+ arrested and around 700 executed.
    American by birth, made of parts from Emmingen, Baden-Württemberg.

    Der Familie Rentz seit 1535 - Meine Ehre heißt Treue

    Das Leben ist zu kurz, um billiges Bier zu trinken!


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  5. #3
    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    You aren't a 'July Plot Denier', are you?

    It's true though that the statistics of all major WW2 events are being manipulated and it's easy to see the propaganda value of inflating them in this instance.

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    Senior Member Herr Rentz's Avatar
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    Not at all.

    I just seem to remember at least two books in my library contradict the Jewpedia figures and other internet sources.
    American by birth, made of parts from Emmingen, Baden-Württemberg.

    Der Familie Rentz seit 1535 - Meine Ehre heißt Treue

    Das Leben ist zu kurz, um billiges Bier zu trinken!


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    Senior Member SaxonPagan's Avatar
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    Senior Member Uwe Jens Lornsen's Avatar
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    In a way sad , that it did not succeed .

    A stop in the war could have prevented many endphase crimes , leading to
    statues erected far away from any battle fields
    like in the town of Neustadt for example .
    During World War II, a subcamp, Number 1049 Neustadt in Holstein/Schleswig-Holstein,
    of the Neuengamme concentration camp was located in the town.[2]
    The sinking of several ships, including SS_Cap_Arcona occurred three to the south in the bay at the closing hours of WWII.
    Almost 7,000 concentration camp victims were killed on two ships, drowned swimming in 45 F water
    towards the lighthouse Pelzerhaken shore, or shot by the SS upon reaching shore.
    A third, the Deutchland had all survivors.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neustadt_in_Holstein

    These ships were sunk the 3. May 1945 by Allied fighter bomber planes .

    The German wikipedia says that it were not only members of the Schutz Staffel ,
    but even Volksturm and average citizens shooting survivors of the sunken ships .
    Therefore the British occupying forces have set that town to be looted .


    When it comes to be a traitor : Who to show loyalty to ?
    Hitler , the Vorsehung , National Socialism , war for war's sake ?
    Mk 10:18 What do you call me a good master, no-one is good .

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    Senior Member Herr Rentz's Avatar
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    You take orders from your superiors. There is no questioning orders.

    All of these conspirators were traitors to the Führer and to Germany.

    You can twist those facts any way you like but the answer always comes out the same. Traitors.
    American by birth, made of parts from Emmingen, Baden-Württemberg.

    Der Familie Rentz seit 1535 - Meine Ehre heißt Treue

    Das Leben ist zu kurz, um billiges Bier zu trinken!


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    Senior Member Uwe Jens Lornsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Rentz View Post
    You take orders from your superiors. There is no questioning orders.

    All of these conspirators were traitors to the Führer and to Germany.

    You can twist those facts any way you like but the answer always comes out the same. Traitors.
    How can a person take orders by Merkel ?

    Officials take orders .

    Officials always get their wages , they don't care about who is paying their wages .

    I reject the idea , that the Führer being German .

    The Führer had been an economical immigrant , not better than any Turk ,
    Negroe and Afghan .
    Mk 10:18 What do you call me a good master, no-one is good .

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    In the past few years, I have come to reconsider my personal view of Stauffenberg. Previously I held the opinion that desertion in war-time were never an honorable option, regardless of the government and/or motives. I have since found that Stauffenberg and the conspirators shouldn't be viewed damningly, frankly because they acted from patriotic and/or noble motives. The entire left has struggled with this fact for generations, in fact.

    The fact the belief in achieving peace once Hitler was gone were naive notwithstanding, Stauffenberg's dying words were "es lebe das heilige Deutschland" (long live the holy German fatherland). And sure, sad about the officials that were just following orders: But perhaps in times when folks that aren't well-meaning to the continued existence of our folk, he can actually act as a role model, because it does need people willing to go to all ends, regardless of the consequences in case of failure.

    I've come a long way to realise this: But, even though I don't agree with all the content and/or positions the German resistance stood for - especially when considering the Scholl siblings - I do admire the determination they had, and ultimately, they did do so from a patriotic motive of fighting for what they believed was a better future for their own country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe Jens Lornsen View Post
    I reject the idea , that the Führer being German. [...]The Führer had been an economical immigrant , not better than any Turk ,
    Negroe and Afghan .
    With all due respect, that's bollocks. Hitler was born in Austria, a German-speaking country, whose 'Germanicity' was at the time completely undisputed. He was born in a region that had been Bavarian as little as 100 years earlier. The dialect spoken in the Innviertel is closer to that spoken in Lower Bavaria than that in the rest of Upper Austria in fact, to this day. As such, a better comparison would be a Scanian moving to Denmark, or a Fleming moving to the Netherlands.

    Being critical of Hitler is entirely legitimate, and perhaps, in hindsight, he should have indeed become a painter in Vienna for a variety of reasons. But I don't think we should compare Austrians who move to Germany for employment reasons with "Turks, Negroes and Afghans". Even if they're Adolf Hitler and their legacy leaves preservationists in German-speaking countries with an extra problem to tackle (the "Nazi card"), instead of a head-start (as I believed for years, but no longer do).
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Senior Member Uwe Jens Lornsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post

    With all due respect, that's bollocks. Hitler was born in Austria, a German-speaking country, whose 'Germanicity' was at the time completely undisputed. He was born in a region that had been Bavarian as little as 100 years earlier. The dialect spoken in the Innviertel is closer to that spoken in Lower Bavaria than that in the rest of Upper Austria in fact, to this day. As such, a better comparison would be a Scanian moving to Denmark, or a Fleming moving to the Netherlands.

    Being critical of Hitler is entirely legitimate, and perhaps, in hindsight, he should have indeed become a painter in Vienna for a variety of reasons. But I don't think we should compare Austrians who move to Germany for employment reasons with "Turks, Negroes and Afghans". Even if they're Adolf Hitler and their legacy leaves preservationists in German-speaking countries with an extra problem to tackle (the "Nazi card"), instead of a head-start (as I believed for years, but no longer do).
    Many Fragwürden Questionables were born in "German" sounding environments , even Karl Marx .

    The Frankenberger Thesis may or may not be completely cleared :
    https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankenberger-These

    Here even is claimed , Hitler would be some kind of E1b1b genetics , which is more common
    among Semites of the Arab world , than among Germanics .
    Mk 10:18 What do you call me a good master, no-one is good .

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