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Thread: Brexit

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Englisc View Post
    Right now protectionist France and Italy are threatening to block TTIP, while Romania is blocking the Canada agreement. That said, I am skeptical about TTIP. We dont know a great amount about what has been negotiated, or what benefits or losses it may have.
    The last I heard the TTIP draft is not even available to members of the public to read. It's being kept secret. I highly doubt it will be a good deal for Europe, as most of our food regulations are stricter than those of the U.S. You can buy a lot of crap hormone-laden meat in american supermarkets that wouldn't be allowed here.


    http://www.alternet.org/food/bon-app...tter-europe-us

    So if you want cheap american turkey twizzlers then TTIP will be a good thing, otherwise I don't see the point of it.
    Close observation may result in feelings of horror, wonder and awe at world you find yourself inhabiting.

  2. #12
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    People are afraid of change. It seems they can either make a clean break or stew in the pot slowly but constantly being slowly heated.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Englisc's Avatar
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    LOL



    Beyond parody.

  4. #14
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    Cameron: Brexit Will Increase Risk of Europe Descending into War

    http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...cid=spartandhp

    Cameron: Brexit will increase risk of Europe descending into war
    The Telegraph

    A Brexit will increase the risk of Europe descending into war, David Cameron will warn as he says that Britain will pay a high cost if "we turn our back" on the EU.

    The Prime Minister will invoke Sir Winston Churchill and say that the foundation of the European Union has helped bring together countries that have been "at each others throats for decades".

    He will highlight the battles of Trafalgar, Blenheim, Waterloo and the two World Wars as evidence that Britain cannot pretend to be "immune from the consequences" of events in Europe.

    His intervention at a speech in central London today marks a significant intensification of the referendum campaign in the wake of the local elections.

    Just three hours after the Prime Minister finishes speaking Boris Johnson, the eurosceptic Conservative MP, is expected to attack Mr Cameron’s EU deal.

    In his first speech since stepping down as Mayor of London Mr Johnson, a keen historian who has written a biography of Sir Winston, is likely to challenge Mr Cameron's claims.

    He has also vowed to produce some "pretty nasty surprises" before embarking on a red bus tour across the UK to make the case for a Brexit.

    The row within the Conservative Party deepened further yesterday as George Osborne, the Chancellor, yesterday warned that house prices will fall and the cost of mortgages will rise if Britain leaves the European Union.

    He seized on suggestions by Michael Gove, the eurosceptic Justice Secretary and one of his close friends, that Britain will leave the single market and establish new free trade relationships. Mr Osborne said that such a move would prove to be "absolutely catastrophic".

    The Prime Minister will make the "patriotic" case for Britain to stay in the European Union at a speech in London on Monday, arguing that "isolationism has never served this country well".

    "Whenever we turn our back on Europe, sooner or later we come to regret it. We have always had to go back in, and always at much higher cost," he will say.

    "The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe.

    "Can we be so sure that peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking? I would never be so rash as to make that assumption."

    He will say that it has "barely been twenty years" since war in the Balkans and genocide in Srebrenica, and highlight Russia's invasion of Georgia and Ukraine.

    "Of this I am completely sure," he will say. "The European Union has helped reconcile countries which were at each others’ throats for decades. "

    Britain has a fundamental national interest in maintaining common purpose in Europe to avoid future conflict between European countries.

    © Provided by The Telegraph
    "And that requires British leadership, and for Britain to remain a member. The truth is this: what happens in our neighbourhood matters to Britain.

    "Either we influence Europe, or it influences us. And if things go wrong in Europe, let’s not pretend we can be immune from the consequences.”

    He will say that for 2,000 years Britain's history has been "intertwined" with Europe's.

    "For good or ill, we have written Europe’s history just as Europe has helped to write ours," he will say.

    "From Caesar’s legions to the wars of the Spanish Succession, from the Napoleonic Wars to the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    "The moments of which we are rightly most proud in our national story include pivotal moments in European history. Blenheim. Trafalgar. Waterloo. Our country’s heroism in the Great War."

    He will argue that Britain fares worst when it is isolated, as it was when it was forced to take its "lone stand" against Nazi Germany in 1940.

    He will say: "It wasn’t through choice that we were alone. Churchill never wanted that. Indeed he spent the months before the Battle of Britain began trying to keep our French allies in the war, and then after France fell, he spent the next 18 months persuading the United States to come to our aid.

    "And in the post-war period he argued passionately for Western Europe to come together, to promote free trade, and to build institutions which would endure so that our continent would never again see such bloodshed."

    The Stronger In campaign will publish interviews with four World War II veterans calling for Britain to stay in the EU.

    They include Field Marshal Lord Bramall, a former chief of defence staff, who says that Britain would be “going backwards” if it leaves the EU.

    Gordon Brown, the former Labour Prime Minister, will on Wednesday warn about the economic risk of leaving the European Union. Mr Osborne yesterday appeared to criticise Mr Johnson leadership credentials, suggesting that he future leader of the Conservative Party should be "serious and sober".

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    ^Yeah seems to happen every time the electorate want to vote against what the eurocrats want. I remember what a Liberal-MP here for the Netherlands in the European Parlement did during the referendum on the EU-constitution (later renamed the treaty of Lisabon), namely make a video where he claimed unless we vote in favour war and genocide will be the result.

    And of course similar things where said during the recent one. Only with Russia/Poetin serving as the bogey man.
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  6. #16
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    So Cameron fears nothing but fear itself?

  7. #17
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    ^^ No nuclear power has ever gone to war against another nuclear power in the 50 or so years since nuclear weapons have been on the scene.

    I very much doubt a Brexit will change that state of affairs.

    Now, there is the vague possibility of some kind of reintroduction of trade tariffs. But having to pay an extra 2 euro for a bottle of French wine is hardly WW3.
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  8. #18
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    Some debunkings of Cameron's fearmongering:

    Our prime minister has brought history into the EU debate, with no good reason and plenty of illiteracy
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...tory-eu-debate

    Andrew Roberts: The Prime Minister’s speech at the British Museum yesterday marked a desperate new low for the Remain campaign. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...#ixzz48FvT6TgP

    Nation states have been the making of Europe - Alan Sked, LSE http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ing-of-europe/

    And here's the collection of essays from Historians for Britain: http://historiansforbritain.org/hfb_essays_web.pdf

  9. #19
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  10. #20
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    Pretty good poll. though didnt ask voting intention:

    Prime Minister David Cameron is struggling to convince voters he is telling the truth about why Britain should stay in the European Union and his main "Out" rival Boris Johnson is doing a better job, an opinion poll found.

    Only 21 percent of respondents in the survey carried out by polling firm ComRes agreed that Cameron was more likely to tell the truth about the EU than Johnson while 45 percent said Johnson was more believable than Cameron.

    With less than six weeks to go until the June 23 referendum on Britain's EU membership and voters evenly split on how they intend to cast their ballots, the rival camps have stepped up campaigning.

    Cameron has warned of the risk of a hit to Britain's economy from a decision to leave the world's biggest trade bloc. Johnson says Britain would flourish outside the EU if allowed to make its own rules, strike its own trade deals and spend its EU budget contributions at home.

    The ComRes poll, conducted for the Sunday Mirror newspaper and the Independent website, found 33 percent of respondents believed they would be better off if Britain stayed in the EU, only slightly more than the 29 percent who thought they would be better off if Britain left.

    ComRes interviewed 2,043 adults online on Wednesday and Thursday.

    Bank of England Governor Mark Carney warned on Thursday of the risk of a sharp slowdown in Britain's economy, and possibly a short recession, if the country left the EU.

    The ComRes poll did not ask voters how they intended to vote on June 23.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUSKCN0Y50QR

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