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Thread: When Should've Germany Surrendered?

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    When Should've Germany Surrendered?

    This question is mainly for Germans and other members of German ancestry but can be answered by any admirer of the Third Reich.

    Please answer this question using one of the three choices. Please explain your choice and explain what they should have tried to achieve, but try to keep it real. Please don't try to rewrite history too much, such as saying they shouldn't have fought a war on two fronts. Start your conjecture no earlier than the defeat at the Battle of Moscow.

    Do you wish Germany had surrendered earlier?

    Do you wish Germany had surrendered later?

    Do you think Germany surrendered at the right time?

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    How could Germany surrender later?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero von Esens View Post
    How could Germany surrender later?
    Indeed, Germans were very honorable people, they truly fought to the last man. I take my hat off to them for that. If only they would behave the same to immigrants.


    I think I've spoken enough about WWII in a previous thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero von Esens View Post
    How could Germany surrender later?
    No one can accuse me of insulting Germany, but the fact is that at least a million soldiers were still standing. They could've fought on. Some Germans never surrendered. They kept fighting after the surrender.

    Maybe there was an objective that the Germans could have reached by holding out longer. Maybe they could have forced an alliance with the western powers.

    Even if you disregard any of that speculation, you didn't say whether they surrendered at the right time or should it have been earlier.

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    Assuming a fixed result, it should have been at the earliest opportunity, but when the enemy was already firmly entrenched on our soil, it would have been particularly senseless to fight on and to continue to live and fight in rubble like some pathetic Palestinians. The allies had no qualms about inhuman conduct against the enemies of humanity in their effort to quell resistance, such as razing entire villages, and it was the collaboration with the occupation powers that preserved our existence for a time.

    It is pointless to dwell excessively on this. What is more important now is to rebuild our power and to regain our independence and if the opportunity arises along the way to align our current interests with some semblance of revenge, then we should seize it. It took the greater part of a century to get in a position to repay France the debt we owed her, but it happened in the end and it can happen again, even if there is no real perspective now and nothing more than a stalemate seems to be achievable under imaginable circumstances. There are unknown unknowns, though.

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    A peace treaty after the fall of eastern front would have been a realistic and honorable compromise. Nothing more could be done after the Soviets surrounded Berlin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    It is pointless to dwell excessively on this. What is more important now is to rebuild our power and to regain our independence and if the opportunity arises along the way to align our current interests with some semblance of revenge, then we should seize it.
    I understand your view regarding surrendering. I don't disagree with it. I was just curious how most proud Germans feel. I can't speak as a German, but sometimes I agree with you that it was a shame that any German lives were lost after the war became a lost cause. Other times I think of how Germany shocked the allies during the Battle of the Bulge and it makes me proud, and I can't absolutley say I wish they'd surrendered earlier. How the Germans held out under insurmountable odds just adds to their legend.

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    I believe it was closer to 3 million German soldiers(Could be all of Axis though, not sure.)


    All of Germany's soldiers were war-wary, starved, losing morale, lack of supplies etc. etc., the death of Hitler really destroyed Germany's hopes.

    Also.


    They had lost the major Axis centres of government. With a broken-up army.

    Germany didn't have much of a chance, with the Luftwaffe destroyed and England razing cities, killing civilians, Germany had lost it's will to fight.

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    Why didn't the Allies just ally with the Germans against Russia? The Germans never wanted to go to war with the British, they even offered to protect the British empire with German troops. Churchill was a war-monger with no grasp of the historical link between England and Germany... He even said that Hitler was the most fit to lead Europe... Quite a hypocrite if you ask me.
    SVMDEVSSVMCAESARSVMCAELVMETINFERNVM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    Assuming a fixed result, it should have been at the earliest opportunity, but when the enemy was already firmly entrenched on our soil, it would have been particularly senseless to fight on and to continue to live and fight in rubble like some pathetic Palestinians. The allies had no qualms about inhuman conduct against the enemies of humanity in their effort to quell resistance, such as razing entire villages, and it was the collaboration with the occupation powers that preserved our existence for a time.

    It is pointless to dwell excessively on this. What is more important now is to rebuild our power and to regain our independence and if the opportunity arises along the way to align our current interests with some semblance of revenge, then we should seize it. It took the greater part of a century to get in a position to repay France the debt we owed her, but it happened in the end and it can happen again, even if there is no real perspective now and nothing more than a stalemate seems to be achievable under imaginable circumstances. There are unknown unknowns, though.

    Actually the surrender question is even more simple although I agree with Hauke.
    Acording to reports filed to the OKW by Reichsarmamentsminister Albert speer. Germany's military industrial production would come to an end on Agust 1 1946. Period. One cannot fight with only their teeth.
    Already there was nearly no Airplane fuel in jan 1 , 1945.

    And if there were a million Soldiers at arms, there were also 7 million dead, this is the most terrible war Germany has ever suffered. The expectation that they should have held on is almost too much to hear.


    (EDITED to add):

    In light of the inmense destruction and suffering that took place,the Wirschaftswunder war more than a Wirschaftswunder, but a spiritual mirracle. There was a famous German Field marshall who said, I believe after WW1, "A nation of 80 millions suffers, but it does not die".
    Well at least not the German Nation.
    The real losers in the end are and were the English, who would not compromise with Germany their cousins, when they could have. They went into the war with an empire, and came out of the war as bitches of the USA. (and the USA's "friends").
    Last edited by Anfang; Sunday, November 16th, 2008 at 05:49 AM. Reason: to add last paragraph

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