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Thread: Is Part of the German Constitution Un-changeable?

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    Senior Member Aelfgar's Avatar
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    Is Part of the German Constitution Un-changeable?

    Below is a comment posted after a news article (in the Guardian). Can our German members confirm if this is true?

    "The first 20 articles of the German constitution cannot be changed. [They are] guaranteed, regardless of the majority in parliament. If the government does that (or tries to do that), you have a coup at your hands . . . There is no democratic way to change the essence of the German constitution."

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    Senior Member Aptrgangr's Avatar
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    lol, first if all, which German constitution?
    Anything man-made can be changed, law bases upon philosophy, not natural science.
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.

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    Senior Member LillyCaterina's Avatar
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    It depends upon how much value the German people places upon their present Constitution. Of course, I have no way of knowing this. But I do know I hold our U.S. BOR in very high regard.

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    Senior Member Aelfgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    lol, first if all, which German constitution?
    Anything man-made can be changed, law bases upon philosophy, not natural science.
    I cannot see how any nation state could have more than one constitution Germany's equivalent of the U.S. constitution.

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    https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/e..._gg.html#p0421

    Article 79
    [Amendment of the Basic Law]

    (1) This Basic Law may be amended only by a law expressly amending or supplementing its text. In the case of an international treaty regarding a peace settlement, the preparation of a peace settlement, or the phasing out of an occupation regime, or designed to promote the defence of the Federal Republic, it shall be sufficient, for the purpose of making clear that the provisions of this Basic Law do not preclude the conclusion and entry into force of the treaty, to add language to the Basic Law that merely makes this clarification.

    (2) Any such law shall be carried by two thirds of the Members of the Bundestag and two thirds of the votes of the Bundesrat.

    (3) Amendments to this Basic Law affecting the division of the Federation into Länder, their participation on principle in the legislative process, or the principles laid down in Articles 1 and 20 shall be inadmissible.
    So it seems to be correct they can not be changed/amendmented legally. However article 146 says that the Base law will no longer apply when the German people adopts freely a constitution of their own. However according to my knowledge this has never happened. So Germany is still under juristiction of a set of laws written by the occupation forces. Now about the coup, part. Who will carry that one out? The German military, or the forces of the only occupying power who still has a presence there?
    The sense of honor is of so fine and delicate a nature that
    it is only to be met with in minds which are naturally noble or
    cultivated by good examples and a refined education.
    - Sir Richard Steele

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    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    So it seems to be correct they can not be changed/amendmented legally.
    Yet, it's not article 1 - 20, but article 1 and 20. So two articles cannot be changed. But maybe article 79 can be changed and thus article 1 and 20?
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Senior Member Aptrgangr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelfgar View Post
    I cannot see how any nation state could have more than one constitution Germany's equivalent of the U.S. constitution.
    The basic law claims to be a basic law, no constitutions, as stipulated in §146. It says Germans should vote on a constitution once the re-union of Germany is achieved. I wonder why this never happened...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelfgar View Post
    Germany's equivalent of the U.S. constitution.
    You can't be serious comparing the US contitution with a catalogue of Continental European feudalist regulations.
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.

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    Senior Member Aelfgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    The basic law claims to be a basic law, no constitutions, as stipulated in §146. It says Germans should vote on a constitution once the re-union of Germany is achieved. I wonder why this never happened...

    You can't be serious comparing the US contitution with a catalogue of Continental European feudalist regulations.
    No, I wasn't comparing it. Just clarifying what I meant.

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    Senior Member Aptrgangr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelfgar View Post
    No, I wasn't comparing it. Just clarifying what I meant.
    You didn't clarify anything. The US constitution bases upon laws of nature and reason, rooting in Anglo-Saxon/common law and therefor is unique.
    The only constitution which can be compared to that is the constitution of Liechtenstein.
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.

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    Senior Member Aelfgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    You didn't clarify anything. The US constitution bases upon laws of nature and reason, rooting in Anglo-Saxon/common law and therefor is unique.
    The only constitution which can be compared to that is the constitution of Liechtenstein.
    You're making an argument out of nothing, Aptrgangr. Yes, constitutions vary in character but they all serve the same basic purpose. As long as we all know what we are talking about.

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