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Thread: What if the U.S.A. left NATO?

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    Senior Member Aelfgar's Avatar
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    What if the U.S.A. left NATO?

    Consider two scenarios:

    1) America withdraws from NATO quite quickly over 5 years.

    2) America withdraws from NATO more slowly over 15 years.

    In each case, what do you think would happen?

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    Though I'm not for NATO, I think it would cause some very dramatic events, I usually don't speculate however I will indulge a thing or two.

    It would cost each nation involved more treasure including the US. In many case a lot of social programs would have to be done away with and taxes would increase.

    The other thing it could make each nation stronger in its own sense out of necessity. This could also cause some turmoil of bigger nations pressuring the smaller states. Then you still have the real evil which is the UN.....
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    Russia (and China) would increase their power over Europe. As with humans...the power vacums will always fill up someway.

    First one directly as conquering new lands (creating greater Russians Empire) and threaten with military force and second one via money/economy/business relationships.

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    After what transpired during the Kosovo operation that resulted in the merciless bombing of innocent Serbian civilians, I'm strictly opposed to NATO, and any U.S. involvement with its operations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_b..._of_Yugoslavia

    I would also like to see the U.S. rescind its membership in the UN, which it is practically subsidizing financially on its own. This would surely spell the demise of this corrupt and meddling international organization.
    Aside from an ever increasing number of mortals who have willfully chosen to worship Satan and his minions, our battle has always been against the powers and principalities operating surreptitiously throughout this twisted world.

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    Senior Member Aelfgar's Avatar
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    I think it's safe to say that Putin's Russia would like to reclaim the eastern European countries it once controlled in the USSR but, if it was confident, would it actually invade them, as far west as Germany?

    I assume that if the U.S. did withdraw from Europe it would give enough time for us to build up a nuclear arsenal that would deter Russia from making a first strike. I don't know if Britain and France could threaten Moscow or other Russian cities with the bombs we currently have.

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    Senior Member Heinrich Harrer's Avatar
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    I don't believe that the Russians have these expansionist aspirations these days - except for regions like eastern Ukraine that are populated with ethnic russians. And that only became problematic when NATO ignored former promises and encroached on Russias border. If the USA leaves NATO and Europe, that could lead to a closer cooperation between the EU and Russia. We need their natural resources and they can import our goods. Considering how powerful China will become in Russias back, they would benefit from better relations with Europe as well - but the US wants to weaken both Europe and Russia so they instigate these tensions (to keep Germany down and Russia out). The real threat we face these days is ethnic replacement and mass invasion by foreign peoples, not military invasion.

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    Senior Member Aelfgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinrich Harrer View Post
    I don't believe that the Russians have these expansionist aspirations these days - except for regions like eastern Ukraine that are populated with ethnic russians. And that only became problematic when NATO ignored former promises and encroached on Russias border. If the USA leaves NATO and Europe, that could lead to a closer cooperation between the EU and Russia. We need their natural resources and they can import our goods. Considering how powerful China will become in Russias back, they would benefit from better relations with Europe as well - but the US wants to weaken both Europe and Russia so they instigate these tensions (to keep Germany down and Russia out). The real threat we face these days is ethnic replacement and mass invasion by foreign peoples, not military invasion.
    You might be right. But Russia seems to have a national mentality of paranoia and I wouldn't trust Putin farther than I could throw him in a judo contest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinrich Harrer View Post
    I don't believe that the Russians have these expansionist aspirations these days - except for regions like eastern Ukraine that are populated with ethnic russians. And that only became problematic when NATO ignored former promises and encroached on Russias border. If the USA leaves NATO and Europe, that could lead to a closer cooperation between the EU and Russia. We need their natural resources and they can import our goods. Considering how powerful China will become in Russias back, they would benefit from better relations with Europe as well - but the US wants to weaken both Europe and Russia so they instigate these tensions (to keep Germany down and Russia out). The real threat we face these days is ethnic replacement and mass invasion by foreign peoples, not military invasion.
    I don't know? I somehow view Russia much as I do the US, they are both run by very corrupt forces. Do you think that maybe Russia would use its new influence to dominate Europe instead of using military power as the US does? Could be both would be as bad as the other.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelfgar View Post
    You might be right. But Russia seems to have a national mentality of paranoia and I wouldn't trust Putin farther than I could throw him in a judo contest
    Russia disbanded the feared "shock divisions" which were built up to invade the West in a case of war, the result was NATO moving further East, taking advantage of this perceived weakness. Some of those divisions are rebuilt now*. Russian paranoia can be seen in a historical context, which is permanent Western invasions over the centuries, which seems to be forgotten overhere. Narrowing Russian history down to one aggression - the attempted invasion of Finland in 1939-40 - ignores centuries of what Russians see as Western betrayal, i.e. the alliance of Western countries with Muslim Ottomans against Russia.
    Regarding OP's question, the EU simply would spend more money on military stuff, and accelerate the strategic buildup of strategic infrastructure.**

    *
    http://www.janes.com/article/78041/r...into-divisions
    **
    https://www.uawire.org/europe-plans-...ommodate-tanks
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.
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    Senior Member Aelfgar's Avatar
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    https://www.politico.eu/article/russ...ladimir-putin/ Quoting:

    . . .managing relations with Russia is an extremely tricky issue for its neighbours, where both political leaders and the public are divided on how to handle Moscow.

    In Finland, for instance, a recent poll found that while 46% of Finns were in favor of closer military ties with NATO and the United States to help deter Russia, only 17% of the public wanted to actually join the alliance. Similarly, after announcing the expulsion of a Russian diplomat from Helsinki for the attack in the U.K., Finnish President Sauli Niinistö (no relation to the defense minister) balanced the decision by saying that dialogue with Moscow would continue.

    One development that could shift that balance is Sweden’s September election. In addition to backing the Magnitsky Act, the four-party opposition bloc is also supporting NATO membership for the first time in what is shaping up to be a close election. “If Sweden moves enough, that could lead to more movement in Finland,” said Anna Wieslander, director for Northern Europe at the Atlantic Council think tank.

    Support for joining NATO has increased in Sweden, with a January poll for the daily Aftonbladet showing that 43% of Swedes were in favor, with 37% opposed (and 20 undecided). Moderate Party leader Ulf Kristersson, a potential prime minister if the opposition bloc wins, has said he would like to gain the backing of the Social Democrats before applying to NATO. If he does secure that support, or decide to go ahead without it, that could have a knock-on effect in Finland. “[Sweden and Finland] don’t conduct politics very fast,” said Wieslander. “But if the leadership decides, then the people would probably follow.”

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