Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 41 to 46 of 46

Thread: Nordic Mythology

  1. #41
    davison6
    Guest

    Post Re: Here Starts Snorre With His Prose Eddas!

    Originally posted by Rahul
    IN the beginning God created heaven and earth and all those things which are in them; and last of all, two of human kind, Adam and Eve, from whom the races are descended. And their offspring multiplied among themselves and were scattered throughout the earth. But as time passed, the races of men became unlike in nature: some were good and believed on the right; but many more turned after the lusts of the world and slighted God's command. Wherefore, God drowned the world in a swelling of the sea, and all living things, save them alone that were in the ark with Noah. After Noah's flood eight of mankind remained alive, who peopled the earth; and the races descended from them. And it was even as before: when the earth was full of folk and inhabited of many, then all the multitude of mankind began to love greed, wealth, and worldly honor, but neglected the worship of God. Now accordingly it came to so evil a pass that they would not name God; and who then could tell their sons of God's mighty wonders? Thus it happened that they lost the name of God; and throughout the wideness of the world the man was not found who could distinguish in aught the trace of his Creator. But not the less did God bestow upon them the gifts of the earth: wealth and happiness, for their enjoyment in the world; He increased also their wisdom, so that they knew all earthly matters, and every phase of whatsoever they might see in the air and on the earth.
    Since Snorri was a Christian, he did make an attempt to reconcile Christian chronology and Norse myths, which he viewed as history and not some pagan babble to be forgotten, as happened elsewhere (notably in the Frankish Kingdom, where Charlemagne's son had a collection of Frankish legends compiled by his father burned). This does not amount to sermonizing at all, although I'll grant that this part of the work should be read while keeping his Christianity in mind. What it really amounts to is a kind of preface, although in his day such stylistic devices were not as evolved as today. Most scholars agree that the main body of the Younger Edda starts with the Gylfaginning, which begins like this:
    GYLFAGINNING
    HERE BEGINS
    THE BEGUILING OF GYLFI
    I. King Gylfi ruled the land that men now call Sweden. It is told of him that he gave to a wandering woman, in return for her merry-making, a plow-land in his realm, as much as four oxen might turn up in a day and a night. But this woman was of the kin of the Ćsir; she was named Gefjun. She took from the north, out of Jötunheim, four oxen which were the soils of a certain giant and, herself, and set them before the plow. And the plow cut so wide and so deep that it loosened up the land; and the oxen drew the land out into the sea and to the westward, and stopped in a certain sound. There Gefjun set the land, and gave it a name, calling it Selund. And from that time on, the spot whence the land had been torn up is water: it is now called the Lögr in Sweden; and bays lie in that lake even as the headlands in Selund. Thus says Bragi, the ancient skald:

    Gefjun drew from Gylfi | gladly the wave-trove's free-hold,
    Till from the running beasts | sweat reeked, to Denmark's increase;
    The oxen bore, moreover, | eight eyes, gleaming brow-lights,
    O'er the field's wide: booty, | and four heads in their plowing.

    II. King Gylfi was a wise man and skilled in magic; he was much troubled that the Ćsir-people were so cunning that all things went according to their will. He pondered whether this might proceed from their own nature, or

    {p. 14}

    whether the divine powers which they worshipped might ordain such things. He set out on his way to Ásgard, going secretly, and- clad himself in the likeness of an old man, with which he dissembled. But the Ćsir were wiser in this matter, having second sight; and they saw his journeying before ever he came, and prepared against him deceptions of the eye. When he came into the town, he saw there a hall so high that he could not easily make out the top of it: its thatching was laid with golden shields after the fashion of a shingled roof. So also says Thjódólfr of Hvin, that Valhall was thatched with shields:

    On their backs they let beam, | sore battered with stones,
    Odin's hall-shingles, | the shrewd sea-farers.

    In the hall-doorway Gylfi saw a man juggling with anlaces, having seven in the air at one time. This man asked of him his name. He called himself Gangleri, and said he had come by the paths of the serpent, and prayed for lodging for the night, asking: "Who owns the hall?" The other replied that it was their king; "and I will attend thee to see him; then shalt thou thyself ask him concerning his; name;" and the man wheeled about before him into the hall, and he went after, and straightway the door closed itself on his heels. There he saw a great room and much people, some with games, some drinking; and some had weapons and were fighting. Then he looked about him, and thought unbelievable many things which he saw; and he said:

    All the gateways | ere one goes out
    Should one scan:
    For 't is uncertain | where sit the unfriendly
    On the bench before thee.

    {p. 15}

    He saw three high-seats, each above the other, and three men sat thereon,-one on each. And he asked what might be the name of those lords. He who had conducted him in answered that the one who, sat on the nethermost high-seat was a king, "and his name is Hárr;[1] but the next is named Janhárr;[2] and he who is uppermost is called Thridi."[3] Then Hárr asked the newcomer whether his errand were more than for the meat and drink which were always at his command, as for every one there in the Hall of the High One. He answered that he first desired to learn whether there were any wise man there within. Hárr said, that he should not escape whole from thence unless he were wiser.

    And stand thou forth | who speirest;
    Who answers, | he shall sit.

    III. Gangleri began his questioning thus: "Who is foremost, or oldest, of all the gods?" Hárr answered: cc He is called in our speech Allfather, but in the Elder Ásgard he had twelve names: one is Allfather; the second is Lord, or Lord of Hosts; the third is Nikarr, or Spear-Lord; the fourth is Nikudr, or Striker; the fifth is Knower of Many Things; the sixth, Fulfiller of Wishes; the seventh, Far-Speaking One; the eighth, The Shaker, or He that Putteth the Armies to Flight; the ninth, The Burner; the tenth, The Destroyer; the eleventh, The Protector; the twelfth, Gelding."

    Then asked Gangleri: "Where is this god, or what power hath he, or what hath he wrought that is a glorious deed?" Hárr made answer: "He lives throughout all ages and governs all his realm, and directs all things, great

    [1. High.

    2. Equally High.

    3. Third.]

    {p. 16}

    and small." Then said Jafnhárr: "He fashioned heaven and earth and air, and all things which are in them." Then. spake Thridi: "The greatest of all is this: that he made man, and gave him the spirit, which shall live and never perish, though the flesh-frame rot to mould, or burn to ashes; and all men shall live, such as are just in action, and be with himself in the place called Gimlé. But evil men go to Hel and thence down to the Misty Hel; and that is down in the ninth world." Then said Gangleri: "What did he before heaven and earth were made?" And Hárr answered: "He was then with the Rime-Giants."

    IV. Gangleri said: "What was the beginning, or how began it, or what was before it?" Hárr answered: "As is told in Völuspá
    I chose to end it here to demonstrate that Snorri could not have been putting Christian words into Odin's (Harr) mouth, since no one with a Christian agenda would say that the Voluspa was an account of what AllFather (one of Odin's titles) did before heaven and earth were made. Since the Ragnarok described in the Voluspa was both the coming doom of the Gods, and a doom that had already happened, it should be obvious that Snorri simply took advantage of this to present a character, Gylfi, of the Christian era asking his pagan forefathers for lore.

  2. #42
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Sunday, January 24th, 2010 @ 11:00 PM
    Subrace
    Other
    Gender
    Politics
    Spenglarian
    Posts
    334
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    I hadn't read either the Snorre Edda or his Sagas in Heimskringla.
    It was a friend from Halmstad(Halland), Sweden who told me about it. And I trust him more than I trust you, and I trust his word on Voluspa, which he believes to have been corrupted by the Judaic religion.

    Please note, that the end of the poem brings in, finally, the judeo-christian "superlord", the higher one. He hardly resembles the IE Sky god or the God of the Gods. If you refer to the Vedas, you will find that even he is not the highest truth, that pervades.

    Talking about the friend:
    He is not an ordinary person in terms of my respect, although he has ended his dialogue with me because of what he believes is my misjudgement in finding friends with the "radical" folk. He is trying to revive the Norse traditions and he is doing a great work for the traditions of the Gods. I respect him greatly even as I understand that he faces great odds in reinstating the traditions and bringing respect which it deserves. Truly where they belong, the wisdom and knowledge of that great age.

    And I have a feeling that you are downright foolish in writing a history and concocting something which is supported by your own archaeological investigations.

    Voluspa is just as false, if someone sees it as the container of the truth. Its your 'truth', since it doesn't disturb the jesuit setup.

    My final suggestion to Davison6: you deserve to find some friends in the Hindutva school of logic. That might help you keep one truth for one world and another for the other.

    How much you know about the Rik Veda, that has already transpired. You might present some more "logical" arguments here. You need to contest your case against Thule Gesselleschaft instead.

    This is a religion board, let me remind you. But I will surely find conclusive answers to the claim that Thracian migrations had the origin of Odin, not from you, but from the Thule Seminar.

  3. #43
    davison6
    Guest

    Post

    Originally posted by Rahul
    I hadn't read either the Snorre Edda or his Sagas in Heimskringla.
    Well, then I suggest that You do. I find it strange that someone who hasn't even bothered to read Snorri's work should know so much of his life as to say this:
    He (Snorri) was also one of the christian converts who managed to get richly awarded and helped others become legends, or their lines in the case of the contemporary kings.
    Could it be that You are just repeating hearsay, and forming preconceptions not based on fact? As I pointed out earlier, Iceland was not at all important to the Church, and in any case the sole source of wealth, land, was allotted by the Thing rather than by the bishop. And Iceland is the worlds oldest surviving democracy so your theory that he was sucking up to aristocrats by writing them false pedigrees needs some proof before I'll accept it.

    It was a friend from Halmstad(Halland), Sweden who told me about it. And I trust him more than I trust you, and I trust his word on Voluspa, which he believes to have been corrupted by the Judaic religion.
    Well, that settles that, then. You have been listening to hearsay, and your friend is another mystical dreamer who doesn't know myths from shit. The Voluspa is the oldest of all the Germanic poems, so if it's Judaicized then we might as well toss out the entire corpus of Germanic mythology. Most scholars agree that it is a condensation of extremely ancient material and a reading of it's terse and at times disjointed style is indeed suggestive of this. As for any similarities it bears to Christianity, this is due to Christianity itself incorporating so much of the old religions in the areas it took over, not vice versa. Or do You think that Christmas trees are a Christian custom? In fact, from the very beginning, Christianity was a return to the old religion, the death of Christ, his sacrifice in official terminology, is nothing more than the cult of Adonis, Tammuz, and every other Dying God who was ever worshipped in the Mediterranean. And the Virgin Mary is simply the Mother Goddess revived, as is proven by titles such as Mistress of Heaven, borne by such luminaries as Isis and Ishtar before her. She was even depicted throughout the middle ages as flanked by lions just as Cybele was.

    Please note, that the end of the poem brings in, finally, the judeo-christian "superlord", the higher one. He hardly resembles the IE Sky god or the God of the Gods. If you refer to the Vedas, you will find that even he is not the highest truth, that pervades.
    You are greatly mistaken. Just because the Pagans recognized more than one God doesn't mean that they didn't assign supremacy to one of them. Odin was "AllFather" to the Norse, as were Zeus and Jupiter. And Balder's name meant "Lord", I suppose You're going to tell me that he was Christ in disguise?

    And I have a feeling that you are downright foolish in writing a history and concocting something which is supported by your own archaeological investigations.
    Archaeology is the science of excavating the physical remains of dead civilizations, if I can't trust it's evidence, what can I trust? I certainly trust archaeology more than I trust your friend.

    Voluspa is just as false, if someone sees it as the container of the truth. Its your 'truth', since it doesn't disturb the jesuit setup.
    How do You know this? Because your friend said so? Very good show of independent thinking and incisive analytical capabilities!

    My final suggestion to Davison6: you deserve to find some friends in the Hindutva school of logic. That might help you keep one truth for one world and another for the other.
    Seems to me that You are the one who needs a reality check.

    How much you know about the Rik Veda, that has already transpired. You might present some more "logical" arguments here. You need to contest your case against Thule Gesselleschaft instead.
    Actually, I confess to knowing little more than the outline of the Vedas. This is because Indian thought has become so thoroughly embedded with mysticism that one must separate all kinds of flowery phrases from the substance of what one is trying to read. This makes reading the Vedas like pouring molasses. And since the focus of my research is the original Aryan invasions in 4300 BC, I decided that it wasn't imperative to actually read them all when excellent outlines are available which present the basic myths of Indra and the Maruts (which is what has the greatest bearing on the ancient Aryans before the break up).

    This is a religion board, let me remind you.
    And let me remind You that it's a religion and mythology board. As such, a discussion of the archaeological facts underlying ancient myths is perfectly appropriate here.

    But I will surely find conclusive answers to the claim that Thracian migrations had the origin of Odin, not from you, but from the Thule Seminar.
    Oh? And will You also find answers to the archaeological remains in Thrace? It seems to me that You are looking for ways to twist facts to fit your theory rather than twisting your theory to fit the facts. But do tell us, if the Aryans in Thrace between 4300 BC and 3000 BC did not migrate to central Europe and Scandinavia, what group of Aryans did, and where did they come from?

  4. #44
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Sunday, January 24th, 2010 @ 11:00 PM
    Subrace
    Other
    Gender
    Politics
    Spenglarian
    Posts
    334
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    Well, then I suggest that You do. I find it strange that someone who hasn't even bothered to read Snorri's work should know so much of his life as to say this:
    The way you see the Veda as mystical, which they are not, as a matter of fact, you are trying to suggest that I regard Snorre just the same way. No, he gives enough insights and his treatment of the stories in the Sagas itself is not very unintelligent, with the intent of de-deifying the gods, presenting them in the line of the Kings of Skandinavia, although you are trying hard to assert that he was writing far away from the Skandinavian homeland, in Iceland that is.

    Could it be that You are just repeating hearsay, and forming preconceptions not based on fact? As I pointed out earlier, Iceland was not at all important to the Church, and in any case the sole source of wealth, land, was allotted by the Thing rather than by the bishop. And Iceland is the worlds oldest surviving democracy so your theory that he was sucking up to aristocrats by writing them false pedigrees needs some proof before I'll accept it.
    More likely it must be that you accepted the false but apparently structured propaganda of your ideology. There is much more to what I talk of when I say anything, that is told to me by another person. Fact is what you assert, backed by your European Christian beliefs, which have ruled the continent for over a thousand years now.

    Talking of the king, he was indeed a tool in the hand of the church since he himself got his sanction, the divine lineage, as told in detail in the sagas, to turn int into a common(widespread and widely accepted) history rather than what must have been, this was done to clearly the advantage of the church.

    The world's oldest democracy? Again in Western Judeo-Christian terms? His work clearly lists his subservience of the kings of Skandinavia, this I read from a christian review itself.

    Well, that settles that, then. You have been listening to hearsay, and your friend is another mystical dreamer who doesn't know myths from shit. The Voluspa is the oldest of all the Germanic poems, so if it's Judaicized then we might as well toss out the entire corpus of Germanic mythology. Most scholars agree that it is a condensation of extremely ancient material and a reading of it's terse and at times disjointed style is indeed suggestive of this. As for any similarities it bears to Christianity, this is due to Christianity itself incorporating so much of the old religions in the areas it took over, not vice versa. Or do You think that Christmas trees are a Christian custom? In fact, from the very beginning, Christianity was a return to the old religion, the death of Christ, his sacrifice in official terminology, is nothing more than the cult of Adonis, Tammuz, and every other Dying God who was ever worshipped in the Mediterranean. And the Virgin Mary is simply the Mother Goddess revived, as is proven by titles such as Mistress of Heaven, borne by such luminaries as Isis and Ishtar before her. She was even depicted throughout the middle ages as flanked by lions just as Cybele was.
    How can you say that my friend is a mystical dreamer, we don't talk about mysticism, and that is simply foolish of you, who is himself obsessviely subservient to the yhwh, whom he is has accepted for the ultimate.

    Discount the christian traditions which were taken/borrowed and kep alive from the earlier age. Half of the mediterranean gods are themselves inspired by semitic superstitions.

    Voluspa is a case of corruption, with some text cut and some inserted at the end, to disallow any doubt in the reader's mind, and he remains satisfied in the community, which is taught a common ideology.

    You are greatly mistaken. Just because the Pagans recognized more than one God doesn't mean that they didn't assign supremacy to one of them. Odin was "AllFather" to the Norse, as were Zeus and Jupiter. And Balder's name meant "Lord", I suppose You're going to tell me that he was Christ in disguise?
    Tell me that you don't. How Odin became the chief among the Gods can be attributed to the change of the nature or maybe some rebellion/revolution in that age. The way he is told of, as the father god, by the later texts, suggests some corruption indeed. Refer back to another ancient historian, a thousand years earlier, at a temple in Uppsala, you have Thor there.

    Archaeology is the science of excavating the physical remains of dead civilizations, if I can't trust it's evidence, what can I trust? I certainly trust archaeology more than I trust your friend.
    Whose Archaeology is it anyway? Can't it be a case of cooked up theories, and borrowing conclusions without any inhibitions. Jumping to them, actually.

    Don't trust my friend, he's into mysticism.

    How do You know this? Because your friend said so? Very good show of independent thinking and incisive analytical capabilities!
    I think I made enough in this reply. I might add some points which my friend did not, and no we don't share an ideology or a thought anymore, even.

    Oh? And will You also find answers to the archaeological remains in Thrace? It seems to me that You are looking for ways to twist facts to fit your theory rather than twisting your theory to fit the facts. But do tell us, if the Aryans in Thrace between 4300 BC and 3000 BC did not migrate to central Europe and Scandinavia, what group of Aryans did, and where did they come from?
    Too many theories are there and its better to wait for the greater truth rather than jumping to conclusions to further a baseless creedal effort. Findig the real answer.

    If you had your answers, this way, I am not looking to go where you had been, then.

  5. #45
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Sunday, January 24th, 2010 @ 11:00 PM
    Subrace
    Other
    Gender
    Politics
    Spenglarian
    Posts
    334
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    You are greatly mistaken. Just because the Pagans recognized more than one God doesn't mean that they didn't assign supremacy to one of them. Odin was "AllFather" to the Norse, as were Zeus and Jupiter. And Balder's name meant "Lord", I suppose You're going to tell me that he was Christ in disguise?
    Or is it the case of the jew yhwh which is being cooked up. Its an Indo-European language. And only a subservient fool can associate lord with yeshu ben pendera. For the record, I made a sarcastic remark with respect to that 'superlord'.
    Last edited by Rahul; Thursday, August 29th, 2002 at 04:23 PM.

  6. #46
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Last Online
    Thursday, February 3rd, 2005 @ 11:38 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Norway Norway
    Location
    Telemark
    Gender
    Age
    33
    Occupation
    Entertainer
    Politics
    National Socialist
    Religion
    Odinist
    Posts
    1
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Sv: Nordic Mythology

    Quote Originally Posted by Ederico Figallo
    Pre-Christian European Mythology is something that interests me a lot, although I only new relatively few on it, since my interest is recent. Use this thread to share your knowledge on Nordic Mythology.
    Well... Personally, I have dedicated my life to help rising Odin's chosen germanic/Nordic people through the Vigrid Civil Rights Movement, and March this year, I was initiated to the title "Gode", which is a priest within the Nordic religion Asatru. If anyone would need to know anything about norse beliefs within our movement, don't hesitate to contact me.

    Odin is great and we (The European) are his chosen people!

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: Thursday, May 12th, 2016, 02:54 PM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: Tuesday, April 5th, 2011, 12:26 AM
  3. The Nordic Woman: Feminine Magic in the Nordic Myths
    By Frans_Jozef in forum Customs & Rituals
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Monday, November 27th, 2006, 03:32 AM
  4. Once-Nordic Populations Now Not Nordic Anymore
    By infoterror in forum Physical Anthropology
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: Wednesday, November 15th, 2006, 02:57 PM
  5. Classify Stefan Kiessling: Halstatt Nordic/East Nordic?
    By fareast in forum Anthropological Taxonomy
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Friday, August 11th, 2006, 07:17 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •