Anglicization/Influence on English on Your National Language?

[Fafner]

Some days ago I was talking to a friend who lived one year in Germany. She's Argentinian as me, and she's German-Spanish translator.

While talking about how was Germany, she told me that she was surprised on how young Germans (from 15 to 30 years more or less) seemed to speak more English than German!, a common case in todays world's youth, including American countries such as mine. But she said that, i.e. from 12 words, 2 were in English! :eek:

Neither she nor me know if it was because she was living in Berlin, wich is the capital of the country, but what do you think about this?

Is it a kind of language evolving marked by globalization times or is it the way how globalization is making lose such an important thing in the culture of a nation as it is the language?

Please comment

[Aeternitas]

She was most likely referring to the phenomenon called "Denglish" and yes, it's a modern trend. English had very limited influence on German before the early 20th century. Direct influence of English, especially via US pop culture, became pronounced after the end of WWII, with the Allied occupation of Germany and later with the global expansion of the American way of life (some call it "McDeutsch"). The newest and most prolific wave of Anglicisms arose after 1989 with the end of the Cold War and the surge of the Anglo-Saxon smack of economic liberalism in continental Europe and the associated business jargon. The introduction of Anglicisms, particularly a host of tourism, marketing and business terminology, experienced a peak during the 1990s and the early 2000s. The use of the Internet has also contributed to the spread of Anglicisms significantly. Especially when it comes to the IT field, there aren't (m)any German equivalents for the Denglisch words, or when there are, they're just not normally known/used. Another source is pop culture. One will hear teens using words and expressions like "chatten", "Fun haben", not to mention the word "cool"...

Several manifestations/examples of Denglish:

- the use of English words "as is" or with the attempt to incorporate them into German grammar, e.g. downloaden, einloggen, chatten, googeln, shoppen, Job, Consulting, etc. This is very common in the IT and business fields.

- the mixing of English and German vocabulary either by English-speaking expats whose German skills are weak or by consultants and businessy types who want to sound modern or sophisticated, e.g "Heute haben wir ein Meeting mit den Consultants", "Wir müssen das Business challengen."

- the excessive use of English words, phrases, or slogans in German advertising, e.g. TV broadcaster ProSieben uses the slogan "We love to entertain you", German airline Lufthansa used the slogan "There's no better way to fly". Cosmetic & hygiene product ads also tend to use a lot of anglicisms, e.g. Double Action Waschgel, Vitalisierendes Peeling

- the non-translation/original use of Anglo-American movie titles. Reinventing titles for English-language films dubbed into German was once a common practice, e.g. Der Held des Westens (The Hero of the West). Nowadays, less so.

- the use of pseudo-anglicisms, i.e. words that are either not found in English at all or are used with a different meaning than in German, e.g. Handy (cell-phone), Beamer (video projector), Smoking (tuxedo), Streetworker (social worker), Dressman (male model), Showmaster (TV presenter), Cutter (film editor)

- the use of calques/word-by-word translations of popular English expressions, e.g. "Das macht Sinn." (from English "That makes sense". The correct German translation would be "Das ergibt Sinn", "Das hat Sinn" or "Das ist sinnvoll." Or "Ich bin (nicht) fein damit" (Eng. I am (not) fine with that), the correct German for which would be "Ich habe kein Problem damit" or "Das ist für mich in Ordnung".

- the influences of English spelling and punctuation on German spelling and punctuation, the most common being the adoption of the English genitive, e.g. Laura's, Daniel's. The correct German spelling would be Lauras or Daniels (i.e. without the apostrophe). This is called the "Deppenapostroph" (i.e. idiot's apostrophe). Another example would be the separation of words according to English rules, e.g. Reparatur Annahme instead of Reparaturannahme or dropping the hyphen in German compound words: Karl Marx Straße vs Karl-Marx-Straße.

All in all yes, it's a product of globalization. It's no coincidence that Denglish is adopted by big companies wanting to sound smart, trendy and vivid. Needless to say that not everybody likes it, some Germans are annoyed with it and see it as showing contempt for their language. Denglish can easily become infectious, particularly when one sees and and hears it on a daily basis in the media. It's one thing when it comes to neologisms imported from other languages, for which no German alternatives yet exist or are widely in use and another when people intentionally pepper their speech with Anglicisms to sound pretentious and hip. For example, it's pretty common to use words like Laptop instead of Klapprechner, Mousepad instead of Mausunterlage or einloggen instead of anmelden, which can be somewhat understandable since these words have only recently entered the language. On the other hand, there's no reason to use words like Ticket, when Fahrkarte or Fahrschein have been in use since the end of the 19th century.

[Fafner]

In Spanish is also a very trendy thing. Kids using "cool" "man" and other words. Also with computer things, for example "mouse" instead of using the Spanish word for it (ratón). Also some words have been addapted to Spanish: the English verb "chat" was transformed in "chatear", but in my language it's used only when you're talking through computers.

However we still call cell-phones with the Spanish word (celulares) :p

[Freydis]

And we can also remember franglais. But it's more prevalent, it seems, in France than Quebec (officially). But I do notice between my friend and her fiance a lot of Denglisch.

[Loftor]

It is a problem of Amerideutsch not Denglisch.

English is an Anglo-Frisian (West Germanic) language. Germanic-speaking peoples from northwest Germany (Saxons and Angles) and Jutland (Jutes) invaded what is now known as Eastern England around the fifth century AD. The native Celts gradually adopted the language. These Germanic dialects eventually coalesced to a degree (there remained geographical variation) and formed what is today called Old English. Old English loosely resembles some coastal dialects in what are now northwest Germany and the Netherlands (i.e., Frisia).

Later, it was influenced by the related North Germanic language Old Norse, spoken by the Vikings who settled mainly in the north and the east coast down to London, the area known as the Danelaw.

The Norman Conquest of England in 1066 profoundly influenced the evolution of the language. For about 300 years after this, the Normans used Anglo-Norman, which was close to Old French, as the language of the court, law and administration. By the fourteenth century, Anglo-Norman borrowings had contributed roughly 10,000 words to English, of which 75% remain in use. These include many words pertaining to the legal and administrative fields, but also include common words for food, such as mutton and beef.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language

[Soldier of Wodann]

Depends where in Germany you are from, IMO. I am from a rural area and all my relatives refuse to speak English or have many Anglo-isms. My uncle commented on it when we were driving through Hamburg though, how all the ads have ridiculous Anglo-isms that don't make sense either in Deutsch or English. Pretty funny stuff. Baden Würrtemburg, where my Grandfather lives, was also quite devoid of many Anglo-isms in peoples' speech. It is more of an urban/teenage problem.

[Jäger]

A nice song about the topic, as a side note, all you hear is made without any instruments, it's all vocally done, and the chorus becomes more and more English every time it is repeated, see if (and when) you can understand it

Denglish - Wise Guys

(The video is an amateur one, and not officially related to the song, feel free to ignore it, or enjoy it, I couldn't find a neutral one )

[Fafner]

Depends where in Germany you are from, IMO. I am from a rural area and all my relatives refuse to speak English or have many Anglo-isms. My uncle commented on it when we were driving through Hamburg though, how all the ads have ridiculous Anglo-isms that don't make sense either in Deutsch or English. Pretty funny stuff. Baden Würrtemburg, where my Grandfather lives, was also quite devoid of many Anglo-isms in peoples' speech. It is more of an urban/teenage problem.

Yes, that's why I specified she lived in Berlín wich is a very big city. I suppose that happens in all the big cities, except, I don't know, is there a very traditionalist big city in Germany?

[Soldier of Wodann]

Yes, that's why I specified she lived in Berlín wich is a very big city. I suppose that happens in all the big cities, except, I don't know, is there a very traditionalist big city in Germany?

Not really. I think people from most cities (not only German ones, of course) are like that. Don't think Austria is much different either. However, I have heard Berne (and German-Switzerland in general) is a bit more traditional, but I'm not sure how true that is.

[Jäger]

I suppose that happens in all the big cities, except, I don't know, is there a very traditionalist big city in Germany?

What is a big city? Historically Germany has not many population centers, our population is spread all over the country, unlike e.g. France with Paris.