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Thread: Viking Sexual Slavery and International Slave Trade

  1. #11
    Senior Member Theunissen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fjolnir View Post
    Google "Moral Universalism". This concepet is deeply ingrained in people's minds by christiany and is polluting their view of the Germanic Ancestors. I'll let myself quote one of my favourite books on the topic:

    "[...]Regardless of what justification someone might use to defend a system of morality, virtually everyone equates the word "morality" with a code of conduct based on altruism and universal compassion (even if the details may differ between various systems).

    The Vikings would have thought of that as a stinking pile of dragon excrement.
    As far as universalism is concerned I see the roots of this rather stemming from Greek and Roman philosophy than from Christianity. Although this will have spread via the Catholic Church, of course, since they had a system of authority, education and organisation that allowed for spreading messages and ideas, which didn't exist previously.

    The Catholic Church and also the Protestants accepted that there is a worldly realm and a churchly one. Which both had their own rules and ethics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjolnir View Post

    The only connection between religion and morality in the Norse world was that they were both part of the same cultural system. Morality didn't derive from religion, and religion didn't derive from morality[...]
    It still was a world view. And the Germanic world view as still based on religion as a lingual analysis would demonstrate. The Catholic Church tries to base their Ethics on compassion and humanity (which is btw. the same what the free masons do - and not entirely biblical). The Germanic Ethics, which I don't claim were uniform, were merely honor based.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fjolnir View Post
    Furthermore, whether or not the Vikings even had a standard of morality is debatable, and depends on how you choose to define the word "morality". If morality is defined broadly and loosely as simply a standard of conduct that one is expected to follow in one's day-to-day life - the definition we'll be using here is this chapter - the the Vikings did have their own morality. Such a definition is wide enough to include what the German philospher Friedrich Nietzsche famously called "morality of mores" - that is, a system of morality that consists of nothing more than social norms. That was the only kind of morality the Vikings had.
    As said most likely not uniform as many think today based on simplification and limited knowledge. But I think the tribes will have some type of ethos, remember the very word Ethnos is related to Ethos.

    The above may or may not have occurred, but there is no indication on how normative this really was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjolnir View Post
    As you can probably guess from the preceding chapter, the Vikings weren't big on the idea of "free will", which we today tend to see as the basis for moral action. The idea of a fixed fate greatly constrained the range of moral choices, such that will was only ever "free" in a partial and provisional sense, and those choices that were left were essentially just matters of meeting that fate in a particular way."

    (Sorry for any mistakes, I've written it by hand, don't have an e-book on hand.)

    Also, you should familiarize yourself with Heimdall's (or Odin's in disguise, as some interpret it) three sons and three social castes present in a natural Germanic Society.
    That would be from the Rigsthula dealing with Jarl, Carl and thrall. which loosely is nobility, free commoners and serfs. This persisted btw. for long.

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  3. #12
    Senior Member Uwe Jens Lornsen's Avatar
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    Perhaps one should consider to use labels

    Maidservant (Magd)

    Churl (Knecht)

    instead of "slaves" .

    Especially when reports were written from people
    with traditions of multiple marriages,
    one needs to be cautious.

    The Old Testament notes two main wives to Jacob,
    and each main wife had it's slave as maidservant.
    And the slave maidservant Lea was giving birth most of the four women.

    In a group will always be leaders by strength , intelligence and talking skills,
    and followers being considered "slaves" .

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  5. #13
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    I once seen a bumper sticker that said "If you don't like slavery, than don't own them". Yeah I know it is just a catch slogan, but if you think about it like so many other things it can have deeper meanings. Just some food for thought.

    Slavery in general is a thing of the past and it should remain in the past. I don't agree that the "Vikings" are equal to todays Wall Street brokers. The "Vikings" were really just pirates and nothing more. Wall street brokers are just what they are, scammers robbing people of their pensions and nothing more, they do it by deception and sneaky business dealings, "Vikings" were warriors that could and did live off the land, most Wall street bankers would commit suicide if they had to raise or hunt their own food and brave the harsh elements.....in essence they are pussies, not the same as a "Viking" warrior on a raid.

    Raiding and pirating are part of our past and again should remain in the past. To say it is Germanic or un-Germanic it is a mute point because the rest the world was involved in it at the same time. I would like to think we have evolved away from these things and focus more on the technologies we have gained since those times.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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  7. #14
    Eala Freia Fresena
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    In German wie have the Word 'Leute' gong back to Liuti and has the Same Root as 'lewd' meaning something like 'people'

    It Most likely likely refers to the class of people who had been unfree.

    .....and it must be very old.

    In the Edda Heimdall created the different classes of men, from thrall, to farmer/warrior to noble men. He gave them colors: the thrall-black, the warrior-reddish, the noble men-white.

    This are actually the old colors of the German flag: black-white-red

    It seems that he warrior/King (priest kings) invaded the German lands and oppressed the original inhabitants into servitude.

    There is actually a gap: the free man and landowner/farmer.

    In Heimdalls creation the red is the color for farmer/warriors.

    One might think, that the oppressors, most likely Aryan people with this caste system invaded Germany.

    Certainly the northern Germans had close relationships with the Scandinavian folks, the Danes, Frisian and Saxons intermarried. Herzog Widukind had a Danish princess as wife. (Their stone grave still exists in Niedersachsen)


    Hamlet: ......there is no bad or good, only thinking makes it so.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    In German wie have the Word 'Leute' gong back to Liuti and has the Same Root as 'lewd' meaning something like 'people' [...] It Most likely likely refers to the class of people who had been unfree.
    This is completely wrong and skewed.

    Leute comes from Proto-Germanic *leudi and referred to those members of the populace that were allowed to partake in the Thing, cf. ON ljóđr and OE lēode and - by extension Latin liber 'free', all of which from PIE *h₁lewdʰ- 'person, folk, people'. The current cognate in modern English would be lede, it is obsolete in the Queen's English but found in various dialects.

    Lewd on the other hand comes from OE lęwede 'unlearned'. Sure, a link has been proposed that it comes, via Latin and Old French, from Old Greek laikos 'of the people', cf. layman. Notice here however that you correctly identify that laos is the commonfolk as such as opposed to demos, it's associated representation and ethnos, the folk as a whole.

    This would mean that it ultimately you are somewhat correct in the two having the same root. In a Germanic sense however, they meant quite different things: One meant the free man capable of deciding over the fate of at least his immediate soil, and perhaps his village and/or tribe. The other was only ever introduced to describe that part of the population that was completely excepted from the decision-making process, and only then everyone once the Doomsday Book basically made peasants out of the old Anglo-Saxon chieftains.

    This are actually the old colors of the German flag: black-white-red
    The Imperial flag was only ever envisioned in 1866 as a merger between the Prussian flag (black-white) and the flag-combination most commonly found in other Northern-German states (red-white).

    The current FRG colours are actually older than that, because they were already held by the first Student corps in the battles against Napoleon 1813-15. The original Urburschenschaft used Black-Red-Gold from 1815 and a painting of Germania holding that flag adorned the outside of the buillding holding the Frankfurt Assembly 1848-49.

    The reason that Black-Red-Gold is completely unheraldic in comparison to Black-White-Red is of course because of its academic/student origin. Academic corporations are not, and were never bound, by the laws of heraldry. So, if you will, SRG is the flag that organically outgrew its original purpose to be used as an all-German flag, whilst SWR is a compromise that was based on the attempt of pushing Austria out of Germany.

    This is chiefly the reason why I use SRG over SWR, the fact it's completely abused by the current German governments doesn't change this fact. In fact, if we made this link, we'd have to scrap like three quarters or more of flags of Germanic countries currently in use.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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  11. #16
    Senior Member Ravenrune's Avatar
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    I think we need to keep in mind that "Vikings" aren't synonymous with all Norse people. They were basically people from the population who went out exploring and pirating.

    I would like to investigate more regarding how the usual population (those staying on the land) felt about those that we call 'vikings' (who went out 'viking'? Perhaps it's more of a verb). Were the 'vikings' restless and troublesome men who the general population was glad to see go off to sea? I don't know but it's one idea I want to look into.

    Within any population, there are people any of us find annoying and irritating. If I lived next to certain biker gang headquarters, I'd be not only annoyed at all the racket but concerned with the various illegal activities.

    It's possible the things some "vikings" did out there might have seemed wrong to other segments of the Norse people. I'm just pondering since I don't know but I feel like investigating more.


    However, I feel it has been a false concept to think of the Norse as the same as Vikings when vikings were a segment of the Norse but certainly no the whole thing.

    ---------------------

    Regarding slavery , who didn't have slavery (I'm not excusing it but it's a fact that it was a universal thing)? Even natives of North and South America and various peoples in Africa had slaves and captives. Even now, slavery is still going on in the world but we tend to not talk about it because it's less within our parts of the world.


    One thing I find annoying (and dangerous) is the common and promoted idea that only white people had slavery when a lot of the time white people were slaves (and that these various peoples complaining about white people all had their own slavery in the past)! This promoted idea is dangerous because it promotes a one-sided modern guilt (especially if this is what you are taught over and over .... perhaps we need an Irish Roots TV series?!) which can make nations do things such as ... well... I don't know ... open the borders to millions of uneducated foreign young males who just want to take advantage of the European guilt mentality for free support.

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  13. #17
    Senior Member Astragoth's Avatar
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    I don't get in to the hero worship of Vikings. They were blonde, thats nice. They also used to sell Christian girls to Muslims.
    The Russians are the Vikings direct descendants and look how they behave.
    Last edited by Chlodovech; Sunday, October 7th, 2018 at 07:39 AM. Reason: No slurs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    I don't get in to the hero worship of Vikings. They were blonde, thats nice.
    They discovered the North-American mainland, with the help of ship building skills that went unsurpassed for 500 years. They were feared warriors throughout all of Europe, and made up the backbone of the Byzantine Emperor's guard for centuries. They conquered lands ruled by people considered much more civilized and advanced at the time. If the Normans would have invaded England before Harald Hardrade in 1066, we'd possibly be having this conversation in Norwegian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    They also used to sell Christian girls to Muslims.
    Where did you get that from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astragoth View Post
    The Russians are the Vikings direct descendants and look how they behave.
    Hardly. The Rurik dynasty was of Norse descent, which ended in the early 17th century. But the plebs of the Kievan and Russian Empire were always made up of Slavs by the outmost majority.
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

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    Keep in mind the Vikings or more properly the Norse were the last of the Germanic tribes to resist Christianity and by studying them we get a glimpse into what pre-Christen Germanic tribes may have behaved like.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    So let's check - we have:
    - Globalization / international trade
    - Capitalism
    - Sexual Slavery
    - Massive inter-ethnic race mixing

    , all around the VIIth to Xth century... All this has nothing to do with White nationalist fantasies and modern "disgruntled middle class" weaklings types who oppose all these things in the name of "traditionalism"... Nothing to do with modern "white knights who don't rape"... All that is modern, domesticated, christianized "small Whites" stuff.

    The truth is that the true spiritual descendants of the Viking captains are the guys today who are trading stuff in Wall Street and plundering whole economies in the Third World. These guys are predators, not prey.

    The "traditionalists" on the other hand are just modern day peasants who feel weak are are finding every excuse that the weak should be protected, whether they are "far right" or "far left".

    I mean, the domestication of Whites who do not rape anymore might be a great thing in a way, but it's a Christian thing! Not a pagan one. And it's not a specifically White character or Germanic one. It is the pure result of:
    1. Christianization and
    2. Outbreeding (which made people care about the world at large and not only their own tribe)

    Conclusion: If you have higher morals, great. But then thank Jesus Christ for it. It has nothing to do with Germanicness or "paganism"...
    While I thanked you for your post, I disagree with your conclusions. I'm no expert in history, but I think you're being way too one sided, and you're citing (((modern sources of information))) that are partially meant to defame and libel our ancient ancestors and affirm Christianity.

    Certainly the Vikings deserve criticism, but they did a lot of good things as well. They were also their own entity/regime, and not necessarily reflective of all Pagan Europe.

    Britain remained Pagan after Rome left for a couple hundred years (until the 7th century), ... Germany largely remained Pagan up until they were fully converted in the 8th and 9th century; Scandinavia - the 11th century; the Baltics - the 14th century. We don't know what their policies were exactly, but I doubt rape was ever legal in those societies. Also the Vikings implemented the female booty policy towards foreign conquered people, not what they considered their own people.

    Also, you seem to imply slavery was a Pagan Germanic thing, whenever Christian Europe engaged in slavery throughout its existence. Serfs were essentially slaves.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery#Middle_Ages_2

    In any event, I think the end of slavery had much more to do with technological progress, than any religious morality and those who suggest otherwise are dreaming.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery

    You also seem to suggest, by extension of inter-ethnic mixing, that inter-racial mixing was a Pagan thing. Firstly, the Vikings were mainly stealing gorgeous White women living in the British Isles to take as wives, who looked essentially the same as the ones back home. With respect to Christianity, yes at one point it had anti-miscegenation laws in the New World (the Old World didn't need them because there essentially were no non-Whites in Europe), but those laws didn't last (there's little to nothing in Christianity that is against inter-racial mixing; in fact, there are numerous verses which encourage it).

    Also, Christians always believed in converting all the non-Whites during colonialism (I don't think Pagans believed in that to the same extent if at all; they lived at a time where they barely encountered non-Whites, but from what we know about their policies towards fellow Europeans, they partially respected the other religions). By converting all the non-Whites, it made inter-racial mixing more possible. Today Christianity is facilitating the rapid erasure of our race through openly promoting mass immigration and race mixing (all are one through Christ as the saying goes), so it's sort of a moot point anyways.

    The nice thing about Pagan Europe was that each polytheism uniquely represented a nation/tribe, thus it was more nationalistic and racialist in a way. They were also more tolerant in some ways: they might honor other Gods as a token of respect, and not get too serious about any of their own Gods. They incorporated Jesus. Christians, however, would do the opposite: they would erase our indigenous Gods, destroy our temples, and burn us alive if we refused to convert. I'm hoping that Skadi is a place where we can embrace our indigenous faiths and clear the record.
    We need a reservation system for our people and our own ethnic-nationalist faith, where we'll have sermons about our people and nations, real history, science, philosophy, etc., in addition to our older religions. Throw in some open bar nights, comedy club hours, music and dance, etc., and it'll be a cracker barrel of good times lol.

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