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Thread: Ancient Finno-Ugrians neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid?

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    Account Inactive Polak's Avatar
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    Post Ancient Finno-Ugrians neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid?

    Interesting theory...

    Population Genetics of Estonians

    A genetic study on Estonians agrees with a multivariate craniometric study (Homo. 2002;52(3):240-53.) in proposing that the Finno-Ugrians were originally a separate race from both Caucasoids and Mongoloids.

    Anthropol Anz. 2000 Jun;58(2):137-54.

    A population genetic characterization of Estonians.

    Heapost L.

    This paper discusses the genetic characterization of Estonians on the basis of eight blood group systems, and the traits of PTC tasting and colour blindness in 40 Estonian population samples from various parts of the country. The allele frequencies for the total Estonian population and for the four most different regions are presented. The survey shows genetic heterogeneity within the Estonians; the greatest genetic differences were observed in West-East direction. The West-Islands, West, and North Estonia differ from the other regions (East, South-East, also South-West and Central Estonia--which form a compact cluster). The mean allele frequencies of the Estonians are comparable to those typical for populations from North and East Europe, but the allele frequencies of Estonians are characterized by tendencies in two opposite (western and eastern) directions, like in other Finno-Ugric populations and concerning other anthropological traits. Estonians reveal closest similarities to the nearest neighbouring populations, regardless of their language group. The genetic heterogeneity and antagonistic traits in Estonians seem to be traces of the original genetic structure of Finno-Ugric ancestor populations which were neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid.

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    Post Re: Ancient Finno-Ugrians neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    Interesting theory...
    I think this isn't that surprising, because the northern proto-Caucasoids existed all the way across into East Asia in the Upper Paleolithic. (I am saying "proto-Caucasoid" because at this time the Caucasoids had probably not yet emerged as a major race.) These old northern types would have contributed to later populations, as they were assimilated.

    Why do you think this is interesting?

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    Account Inactive Polak's Avatar
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    Post Re: Ancient Finno-Ugrians neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by atlanto-med
    I think this isn't that surprising, because the northern proto-Caucasoids existed all the way across into East Asia in the Upper Paleolithic. (I am saying "proto-Caucasoid" because at this time the Caucasoids had probably not yet emerged as a major race.) These old northern types would have contributed to later populations, as they were assimilated.

    Why do you think this is interesting?

    Well, you may be right...

    But the impression I got from this brief was that Caucasoids and Mongoloids existed at the same time as these ancestral Finno-Ugrians, which were a seperate race. Following on, this Finno-Ugrian race then contributed genes to both Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations i northern Eurasia - breeding itself out of existance.

    But I would have to get the full report to make sure of that.
    Last edited by Polak; Sunday, August 8th, 2004 at 09:47 AM.

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    Ancestral Finno-Ugrians not Caucasoid?

    Nor Mongoloid?

    Population Genetics of Estonians

    A genetic study on Estonians agrees with a multivariate craniometric study (Homo. 2002;52(3):240-53.) in proposing that the Finno-Ugrians were originally a separate race from both Caucasoids and Mongoloids.

    Anthropol Anz. 2000 Jun;58(2):137-54.

    A population genetic characterization of Estonians.

    Heapost L.

    This paper discusses the genetic characterization of Estonians on the basis of eight blood group systems, and the traits of PTC tasting and colour blindness in 40 Estonian population samples from various parts of the country. The allele frequencies for the total Estonian population and for the four most different regions are presented. The survey shows genetic heterogeneity within the Estonians; the greatest genetic differences were observed in West-East direction. The West-Islands, West, and North Estonia differ from the other regions (East, South-East, also South-West and Central Estonia--which form a compact cluster). The mean allele frequencies of the Estonians are comparable to those typical for populations from North and East Europe, but the allele frequencies of Estonians are characterized by tendencies in two opposite (western and eastern) directions, like in other Finno-Ugric populations and concerning other anthropological traits. Estonians reveal closest similarities to the nearest neighbouring populations, regardless of their language group. The genetic heterogeneity and antagonistic traits in Estonians seem to be traces of the original genetic structure of Finno-Ugric ancestor populations which were neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid.

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    Fascinating.

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    Post Re: Ancient Finno-Ugrians neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    Interesting theory...
    I don't see any theory here at all.

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    Post Re: Ancient Finno-Ugrians neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    But I would have to get the full report to make sure of that.

    Post the citation, journal title, etc and I'll see if I can access it....

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    Post Re: Ancient Finno-Ugrians neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Allenson
    Post the citation, journal title, etc and I'll see if I can access it....
    Can you access scientific papers which reqiure a subscription?

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    Post Re: Ancient Finno-Ugrians neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid?


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    Post Re: Ancient Finno-Ugrians neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by atlanto-med
    Can you access scientific papers which reqiure a subscription?

    Some I can, some I can't. I go online at a local college so I do have access to some good stuff.

    Apparently however, I can not access this particular article....

    Sorry.

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