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Thread: Split: Cultural Nationalism vs Ethnonationalism

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Aesthete View Post
    To them an encultured (I prefer the term usurper) African/ Arab/ Asian is English full stop, they don’t care if the ethnic English perish as long as the culture which the ethnic English created is practised in the island named after the ethnic English.
    What's more, is that these cultural "nationalists", for the large part, consider English culture (or French or Italian or German culture) to simply be about vapid and abstract concepts, like 'democracy', 'freedom of speech' and being good, obedient tax-paying slave till you get put in elderly care. As a life-view, it is utterly soulless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    What's more, is that these cultural "nationalists", for the large part, consider English culture (or French or Italian or German culture) to simply be about vapid and abstract concepts, like 'democracy', 'freedom of speech'
    Well, that "democracy" somehow, in some way has to do with Germanics can not be denied. Also, that Germanics do very much like free speech, and that they feel suppressed and humiliated if they don't have it.

    The mistake is not the identification of democracy with Germanics, but the failure to see that non-Germanics have no idea of, and no liking for democracy. Even if they superficially assimilate, they do so for economic reasons and not because they got convinced of Germanic values. When Germanics physically disappear, or got fully marginalized, then Germanic democracy will also disappear, the aliens will certainly not "carry on the fire". It is just the question whether cultural nationalists do not see this, or do not want to see this, or do not get this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    and being good,
    The semantic shift of the word "good" is long and complicated. One Nordic saga tells the story how a Germanic boy was slain by the Germanic brother of the Germanic girl he wanted to take as wife. And the boy had not even slept with the girl, he just had uttered his will. Nowadays, the brother of a Swedish girl would not kill a negro even if that negro had fucked his sister to death. Surely, in the latter case, the boy is considered as officially "good", whereas in fact he is bad. But was the boy in the former case really better? Is it really "truly good" to kill a boy of the same folk, just for the "honor"?

    Germanics, it seems, are unable to distinguish. They must always do everything total, completely. Either everyone is your enemy, or everyone is your "friend". That seems to me a mental deficiency, which is frightening (and which must lead to final catastrophe).
    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    obedient tax-paying slave till you get put in elderly care. As a life-view, it is utterly soulless.
    If you don't want to pay tax, you must serve in the army. If you don't want to serve in the army, you must pay tax. It's as simple as that. It's your choice. But you can't have both, that would be parasitic anarchy.

    This is really the point where many Germanics misunderstand democracy, and not since yesterday or since last century, but since about 1500 years, this egocentric, egomaniac refusal of common duties flares up time and again, here and there and everywhere among all Germanics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    The mistake is not the identification of democracy with Germanics, but the failure to see that non-Germanics have no idea of, and no liking for democracy.
    I am starting to dislike it, as well. As long as the right to vote is not followed by some prerequisite qualifying merits, other than a mere age limit, it is highly harmfull and dysgenic for society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    Germanics, it seems, are unable to distinguish. They must always do everything total, completely. Either everyone is your enemy, or everyone is your "friend". Either you must kill everybody, or you must feed everybody.
    That seems to be very much true. It is a certain mentality of consistency among Germanics, which I guess stems from the will to maintain order, in contrast to chaos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    If you don't want to pay tax, you must serve in the army. If you don't want to serve in the army, you must pay tax. It's as simple as that. It's your choice. But you can't have both, that would be parasitic anarchy.

    This is really the point where many Germanics misunderstand democracy, and not since yesterday or since last century, but since about 1500 years, this egocentric, egomaniac refusal of common duties flares up time and again, here and there and everywhere among all Germanics.
    I do not see it as a duty of any free, sensible Germanic to pay taxes to their state at this point. Our governments have all clearly shown themselves to be traitorous to the People they were meant to protect and sustain. This has nothing to do with being an "egocentric" or "egomaniac". Until our states are retaken and redirected to what they were always meant to be, the only legitimate duties are to family, comrades and Folk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    I am starting to dislike it, as well. As long as the right to vote is not followed by some prerequisite qualifying merits, other than a mere age limit, it is highly harmfull and dysgenic for society.
    Yes, and having served at least one year in the armed forces must be a prerequisite for every Germanic person to become an adult member of the folk and thereby activating all rights. Who did not serve in the armed forces is not yet mature, can not yet exert all rights, can not yet fulfill all offices.
    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    That seems to be very much true. It is a certain mentality of consistency among Germanics, which I guess stems from the will to maintain order, in contrast to chaos.
    Germanic people are too sure of themselves. They feel, the others can do no serious harm to them, because they, the others, are technologically too inferior. And this is even true, at the moment. But if Germanics further hesitate to make real full use of their superiority, they will nevertheless be brought down, by sheer numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Our governments have all clearly shown themselves to be traitorous to the People they were meant to protect and sustain. This has nothing to do with being an "egocentric" or "egomaniac". Until our states are retaken and redirected to what they were always meant to be, the only legitimate duties are to family, comrades and Folk.
    Yes, our present governments do betray their people, who elected them, often in good faith. This, by the way, proves in real life practice that democracy must have intrinsic flaws. I am only afraid that, if these governments finally get removed, any national governments will face the same problem, then. That they "honestly" want to care for their people, nobody will trust. And that they will face military pressure from outside will be taken as "proof" that they are "also" incompetent.

    Germanic people in all Germanic countries know, or sense, that a complete, abrupt reversal of the present policy -- as shitty as it ever may be felt -- will spell war, or at least severe economic hardship. So, the system meanwhile is stabilizing and perpetuating itself by going on with its wrongdoings and treacheries. People fear a turn to the "right" direction. Because life will be freer, more worthy, yet also much much harder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    I do not see it as a duty of any free, sensible Germanic to pay taxes to their state at this point.
    Total, complete tax refusal would on the one hand cater for the Germanic's sense of totality, but it would run counter to their sense of law and order. What would be a good idea, though, is a general strike. That strike would have to be held on until a change of government. But the very next moment after the change, work would have to set it at once. A superhuman amount of willpower, coordination, and strict discipline is needed for this.

    If Germanic people would manage this, and in all Germanic countries, concerted, then they would really prove their superiority. Then the others would really be afraid of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    Who did not serve in the armed forces is not yet mature, can not yet exert all rights, can not yet fulfill all offices.
    I think there are plenty of other ways to prove one's competence and value to the Nation. Not all men are meant for military conduct, and I suppose we would be little different to the Taliban if we were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    Germanic people in all Germanic countries know, or sense, that a complete, abrupt reversal of the present policy -- as shitty as it ever may be felt -- will spell war, or at least severe economic hardship. So, the system meanwhile is stabilizing and perpetuating itself by going on with its wrongdoings and treacheries. People fear a turn to the "right" direction. Because life will be freer, more worthy, yet also much much harder.
    I'm not sure what exact change of policy you're referring to, but if we're talking about the scrapping of multiculturalism, mass-immigration, debt-based economy, gender equality and cultural Marxism, to the benefit of the natural order, I doubt very much that life would be deemed "harder", in pretty much any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    Total, complete tax refusal would on the one hand cater for the Germanic's sense of totality, but it would run counter to their sense of law and order. What would be a good idea, though, is a general strike. That strike would have to be held on until a change of government. But the very next moment after the change, work would have to set it at once. A superhuman amount of willpower, coordination, and strict discipline is needed for this.
    I second that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech View Post
    But UKIP has certainly been denounced as islamophobic and racist (which is almost as bad as "neonazi") and makes them just as unacceptable in the eyes of people who would reject ethnonationalist parties as well.
    Its been criticized as islamophobic because of a minority in the party who don't distinguish between ordinary (law-abiding) Muslims and Muslim terrorists. Nigel Farage has made this point and said the party will be over if Anne Marie Waters wins the leadership election in September. In my personal view individuals like Waters should be expelled because they're trying to turn UKIP into a single-issue anti-Islam party; this will not be popular amongst voters, so who is really behind this? Far left wing groups like Hope-not-Hate and ANTIFA are wanting Waters to win because they know that will be the end of UKIP; about a dozen UKIP MEPs have said they will quit the party if Waters wins, so it will totally wipe out UKIP in the European parliament, one of the few places it still has seats.

    Furthermore, these individuals like Waters are part of the so-called Counter-jihad movement. They're not even nationalists, since their only concern is Islam.

    Farage is literally Hitler and the UKIP is neofascist in the eyes of deluded leftist Britons though, they've been smeared that way and every other possible way. UKIP seemed to be apologizing for potential racism most of the time, which is typical for cultural nationalist parties. Fearful as they are of the media, the state, the left... they're constantly trying to prove how they're not racists. Jack Buckby, a relatively "famous" British cultural nationalist - who completely embraces the idea - constantly has to fight against the nazi label too.
    Except Buckby is an idiot fixated with being anti-Islam, its all he talks about. No surprise he's behind Waters election campaign to become the new leader of UKIP. Buckby stood in a parliamentary by-election about a year back and only got 1.1% of the vote. He's an embarrassment. I don't consider these people nationalists, they're Counter-jihad movement; the latter is toxic to voters.

    UKIP and cultural nationalists are weak because they fundamentally agree with the left's view of the world and mankind, at best they ignore race, at worst they actively work against native Englishmen by integrationist policies (which do not, for instance, end crime or job worries). Cultural nationalists simply propose a few corrections to the system, ethnonationalists want to replace it because the system has no room for us. And also because it's doubtful ethnonationalism would have a future in a state which does not change its constitution.

    Cultural nationalism would've been okay in the Fifties and Sixties, but by now there are too many migrants to integrate without losing our own ethnic identities. Even if mass migration completely stops, all our problems would remain the same due to the presence of enormous amounts of foreigners in the West. They will integrate us, not the other way around.
    My priority is stopping mass-immigration. The only way to do that is to get behind electorally palatable cultural nationalist/right-wing populist parties. Ethnic nationalism is a failure at the ballot box. So either nationalists adapt, or cease to exist as far as politics is concerned. The problem with nationalism is there are too many people clinging to outdated ideas, especially stuff that makes us look like looney-tunes: from "racial purity" to extreme repatriation policies, i.e. deporting all immigrants. This is nonsense that is never going to happen, even Nick Griffin gave it up back in 2009:

    "British National Party leader Nick Griffin has said he no longer wants to see an all-white United Kingdom. Mr Griffin, who is due to take up his seat as an MEP for the North West, said the idea of a UK without ethnic minorities was "simply not do-able". Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show, Mr Griffin said: "Nobody out there wants it or would pay for it." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8146585.stm

    "Nobody out there wants it or would pay for it" is spot on. Yet you still have hard-core nationalists on the internet who cling to this sort of stuff, but that's all it will be, confined to the internet. In contrast I'm only interested in the real world; nationalists need to be pragmatic to be taken serious. Otherwise we will be confined to the internet as some sort of cult fringe group that is laughed at. That is precisely where groups like ANTIFA want us, hence they love the hard-core nationalist, rather than a moderate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Aesthete View Post
    You’re wrong it does equate with ethnicity. London for example has a history of overcrowding and crime, but whites have only fled with the arrival of these other ethnic groups.

    If I was culturally Chinese that would not make me Chinese and likewise for the ethnic English.

    Regarding those who are a ¼ Indian or African as ethnic English is absurd and detrimental to ethnic English identity. Do you also regard a semi-circle as a circle?

    Even if a cultural nationalist party came to power and astonishingly cut immigration it would not solve the problem. They would be indifferent to the plight of the ethnic English, erroneously regarding Indians, Africans etc. as all English. This would not decrease miscegenation with these groups, it would probably increase it as these other ethnicities would be more encultured under a cultural nationalist government. It would not also address the poor fertility rate of ethnic English women in comparison to other ethnic groups, because cultural nationalists believe they’re all English. So even if immigration was frozen it would do nothing to address the other factors which will see minority status and the eventual ruination of ethnic English identity.

    The English culture usurped and their ethnicity absorbed away into other ethnic groups is the future that cultural nationalists find little issue with.
    By massively reducing immigration levels, the ethnic English will remain the majority in their country for centuries, or even millennia to come. So all those things you highlighted are irrelevant if we have a moderate cultural nationalist party that stops mass-immigration. I'm not sure why you think cultural nationalist parties will not be tough on immigration. I consider the FN cultural nationalists and they want an immigration policy where immigration is +/- 10,000 net, so basically zero-net immigration - the same policy of UKIP.

    Article:
    Ukip will promise ‘one in one out’ migration policy to cut immigration from 600,000 to 300,000 a year
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ration-600000/

    Of course this is just the minimum that is needed; ideally I would like to see negative net immigration. However, that would be considered too extreme by most voters at this point; according to a 2014 survey, 56% of the British public want zero net immigration, in other words a reduction of 300,000 immigrants, each year.

    A small number of traditional conservatives like Philip Hollobone support zero-net immigration and there is an organisation called Balanced Migration that supports it.
    http://www.balancedmigration.com/about-us/

    Therefore this policy is not "fringe". The majority of voters want it.

    As for ethnicity and who is "English". Then let me ask you is someone who has almost exclusive English ancestry for the past 300 years, but who has a single French Huguenot ancestor, still English? 50,000 Huguenots refugees moved to England in the early 18th century. Over a short period of time, they assimilated and intermarried with English.

    I'm against turning ethnicity into something silly, i.e. that says someone has to be 100% "genetically pure" or whatever; this itself is a straw-man since all populations have historically mixed with others and things like ancient DNA are now revealing the extent of this.

    My view on ethnicity is no different to how the Native American tribes recognise tribal membership based on blood quantum laws. Note there are no tribes clinging to your "100% genetically pure" straw man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panchaea View Post
    By massively reducing immigration levels, the ethnic English will remain the majority in their country for centuries,
    "Majority"? In the House of Commons, a majority of one vote also is a "majority". So if of 70 million "British" "citizens" 35 and a half million were ethnic natives, it would be "the" majority, and it would be fine with you?

    You know, we have just seen a couple of days ago, in one of our federal states, one female MP left her party and changed sides, thereby bringing the government, who "ruled" by a one-vote-"majority" to fall. So quickly it goes.

    But let this aside, I am afraid what works in parliaments ('parliament' translated into English means 'chat booth') won't work in the streets. In the streets, a small determined "minority" can bomb and smoke out a passive, apathetic, spineless "majority".
    Quote Originally Posted by Panchaea View Post
    As for ethnicity and who is "English". Then let me ask you is someone who has almost exclusive English ancestry for the past 300 years, but who has a single French Huguenot ancestor, still English?
    Why you fabricate a dummy example of which you precisely know we, including you, are not talking about it? We are talking about negroes, levantines, and all sorts of "east indians" mainly, and additionally about the rest of "mankind".

    But as you mention it, it comes to my mind that the British upper crust, the so called "lords", well into the 19th century even members of their own crust who had French ancestry used to call "frogs", right? And they did not regard them as fully fit and proper for their daughters. You must surely know it. So how are these people get called nowadays? Our beloved french fried co-inhabitants?
    Quote Originally Posted by Panchaea View Post
    50,000 Huguenots refugees moved to England in the early 18th century. Over a short period of time, they assimilated and intermarried with English.
    Yes, and more than 100'000 came to Germany, half of them to Brandenburg. And guess what? These huguenotte "refugees" are presented to us as the best example that "integration is possible", that it "always happened before" etc. Yes, it happened 300 years ago, and it can't be undone, but we simply do not want it to happen again! And especially do we not want it to be abused as excuse for things that were scheduled for us now by some dark men behind. Things past must just be seen as deplorable accidents, nothing else. Shit happens. If your child broke one precious vase, you also would not give him another one, or all other ones in the house and tell him: "Well done! Smash the others too!" would you.

    There was a fighter ace, Joachim Marseille. He was known as a troublemaker, unsafe, difficult to handle by his superiors. There was also a Scotsman serving in the German Luftwaffe, Gordon MacGollub. On him, General Steinhoff remarked: "About Gollub, I only will say this: wherever he came, our losses of life went up."

    There also was a U-boat skipper in the Great War, Arnault de la Perrier. He was highly decorated. But by his face, he looks so entirely, totally un-German and typically French, after almost 300 years of "assimilation", that I feel uneasy and I do not want such people fight for my folk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    I'm not sure what exact change of policy you're referring to, but if we're talking about the scrapping of multiculturalism, mass-immigration, debt-based economy, gender equality and cultural Marxism, to the benefit of the natural order, I doubt very much that life would be deemed "harder", in pretty much any way.
    The policies which the folk-treacherous, and (even under the existing law) state-treacherous, governments in all Germanic countries carry out is not solely an internal matter. Meanwhile, this sort of treachery has become an important factor for stabilizing the whole world's status quo. China, Russia, and America (because the Germanics in America have little say) are highly interested in the continuous weakening of, for example, Germany. They play officially a theater phony "cold war" for the world media. But in fact they are pretty much content with the things as they are, and they pretty much agree that everything should go on this way. Because if Germanic countries really and in earnest would become Germanic again, this would go at the expense of China, Russia, and the zionists. Also the Arabs would not like it.

    Some time ago, there was an incident at a funfair in Germany. Some native male youth were hunting migrants from India who had molested German girls. At once the government of India asked officially in Berlin, whether "Indian citizens" were still safe in Germany. Also some time ago there was a Chinese female student killed by a German boy whose parents both were policemen. The Chinese government, officially, because of that single one Chinese girl, protested in Berlin, and requested a thorough investigation of that case; the thing was blown up in the whole Chinese media for weeks. etc etc These are only light foretastes of the things to come.

    The Chinese and the Russian navies meanwhile do exercises in the Baltic Sea. My whole life I did not believe such thing ever would be possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    What's more, is that these cultural "nationalists", for the large part, consider English culture (or French or Italian or German culture) to simply be about vapid and abstract concepts, like 'democracy', 'freedom of speech' and being good, obedient tax-paying slave till you get put in elderly care. As a life-view, it is utterly soulless.
    Concepts like democracy and freedom of speech are characteristic to Germanic and European cultures more than they are to non-European, who find them alien. Democracy is one of the oldest Germanic values. The Alžingi is the oldest parliament in the world, which all free men could attend and participate on legislation and dispensing of justice. Many Germanic tribes had similar precursors of democracy, the Anglo-Saxon folcgemōt, the ancestor of the English parliament, the Lųgting, the Thing of all Swedes, etc.

    A famous incident that illustrates the concept "power to the people", where Žorgnżr the Lawspeaker told the Swedish king Olof Skötkonung that the people, not the king, held power in Sweden; the king realized that he was powerless against the thing and gave in.



    Democracy, an old Germanic value.

    What people who are ignorant about the history or meaning of democracy do is to mistake democracy for concepts such as universal suffrage, which is a trait of modern democracies, but not indispensable to have a democracy (Athenian democracy excluded women, slaves, foreigners and non-landowners from citizenship and decision making, in 10th–15th Century Frisia weight of vote was based on landownership); voting in general (which is a democratic trait but also exists in non-democracies), modern human rights (did also not exist for a while in democracies), or they equate it with the Greek system, due to its etymology, but other democratic systems developed without needing to call themselves democracies, or on the contrary, systems called themselves democracies without being democratic (German Democratic Republic). Or they confuse it for liberal democracy, which is a form of democracy but not the only possible kind.

    A pure form of pure democracy or direct democracy exists today only in the Swiss cantons of Appenzell Innerrhoden and Glarus. There citizens participate in the decision-making personally, contrary to relying on intermediaries or representatives. Their parliaments pretty much resemble old representations of the Alžingi:





    They can be attended by any citizen over 18 and anyone has the right to step onto the podium and start debates or bring any important discussion topic into question. They including have the power to change constitutional laws, put forth initiatives, referendums, and suggestions for laws, which is how Germanics should have it. Appenzell Innerrhoden was the canton with the strongest support for the minaret ban in the Swiss minaret referendum, 2009, at 71%.

    It is more often than not foreigners who don't know or understand democratic values, since they are largely absent from their societies. Democracy is not the undisputed right to be in Germanic countries in the first place and do as they will there, freedom of speech is not the right to say anything they like but be protected from criticism or free from any consequences.

    Because of their misunderstanding of European politics and culture, several countries have proposed or introduced democracy tests for extra-European immigrants. The enemies of Germanic democracy fear and distrust the will of the Germanic people, so they try to suppress it "for their own good" or "because 90% of people are idiots", which is an insult towards the Germanic folks's intelligence and abilities.


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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