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Thread: Did American Racism Inspire the Nazis? A New Book Claims As Muchand in So Doing Falls into the Intellectual Trap Known As Reductio Ad Hitlerum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    The hypocrisy in the American attitude towards Blacks and immigrants, while criticising Germany for its policy against Jews and Slavs, was certainly always pointed out by NS politicians and media.
    The one thing here is that this hypocrisy really did not start until the FDR regime in the US. Most Americans still do not comprehend the damaging effects FDR has on the US and still does today. Most Americans are taught in school that "The New Deal" was this great piece of work, when in fact it was found to be in-Constitutional by the US Supreme court. This is just one example how most Americans are not undereducated but mis-educated in their own history. There are many other subjects that this could be said for.

    Yes, some politicians, Jefferson and Knox, for example, might have had ideas about the assimilation of Amerindians
    but the average American certainly didn't, looking at the massacres on the frontiers. And even the former abandoned that stance eventually and it even might have been only a pretense to appease the Amerindians and foreign observers.

    Chinese, southern European, Slavic and even(or especially?) Irish immigrants, to name just a few examples, were looked down upon, as well.

    That Blacks were seen as most different and looked down upon the most, doesn’t change the fact that for a long time all non-Germanics, or, indeed, non-Britons(just read Franklin’s opinion about Swedes and Germans), were regarded as alien by Americans.
    This does not mean that Jefferson or Knox considered the savages as equal to European Americans, keep in mind Jefferson condoned slavery, though he did see that it would eventually need to end and other thoughts too long for this thread.

    Franklin was a very interesting character to say the least. He said both good and bad things about Germans and Swedes, more good than bad. He would most certainly view Anglos as Germanic, keep in mind most of the founding fathers of the US were very educated for the times on a wide variety of subjects and history. Were they gods or did they have all the answers....not by a long shot otherwise they would have included racial doctrine into our founding laws and thoughts, especially concerning jews and usury.

    To say most current Americans view the savages as the lessor threat comes again from mis-education and the "Noble Red Man" myth. Hollywood often portrays the red savages as some kind of heroes in tune with nature and their surroundings to a super human level, and nothing could be further from the truth. In fact the tribes lived hand to mouth moving around because they depleted resources in one area and had to move, thus causing constant tribal wars. Still though many Americans believe falsely that the red savages got some kind of raw deal, personally I just believe they were primitives that could not and have not adapted to modern technology and it was just a natural course of things that the strong beat out the weak.

    On the topic of the American manifest destiny should have it's own thread. But after reading much on it years ago, I came to the conclusion that it actually happened long before the phrase was even termed. I used to love reading about early American frontier life when I was in my teens, mainly because it all seemed so adventurous and the idea of exploring a wild frontier was a favorite day dream of mine when I was a kid.

    This book is just another attempt to demonize National Socialism and at the same time kick prior American racial practices in the gut a few while he is at it. He is basically trying to tie two things together that really have no ties other than racial theory from two separate groups at separate times in very different places. When will we ever remember that university professors seldom actually seek or write about the truth and they always have a agenda behind their works.
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    Hitler, Evola and others who might be considered right wing expressed a non-condescending admiration of the natives. To Evola they were aquiline and solar. Hitler viewed the replacement of the native North Americans as a matter of fact whilst expressing admiration for them. He grew up with literature sympathetic to Native Americans like many other Germans of his generation.

    The noble savage archetype arose in the 18th century, not with leftism. The romantic interpretation of tribal people makes no sense unless one sees human nature as naturally good as opposed to a Hobbesian state of war against all. Admiration or otherwise of native peoples ought not depend upon such an idea however it was appropriated for the deconstruction of familiarity thereby weaponising and appropriating anthropological literature to political ends. Prior to that it was merely an 18th century expression of a universal belief in a Golden Age and the fall from grace.

    For early modern scholars from More to Rousseau, descriptions of Indian cultures could provide opportunities to criticize “civilization.” After Hunt and Crawfurd — or at least at about the middle of the 19th century, when both imperial ambition and racial ideology was hardening into national policy in Europe and the U.S. — Indians became foils of a different kind: people whose traditions underscored the accomplishments of Europe. The imperial powers were now the models of human achievement. Ellingson sees this shift and shows us how profoundly it affected popular conceptions of Native people.
    So debates of Amerinds in North American discourse are influenced by two rival perspectives of European origin, each of them reflecting a view about the fundamental nature of man. In a way they even taint debates about Paleoamerican effects upon Pleistocene ecosystems.

    One writer who tackled the bowdlerisation of anthropology is Roger Sandall who ties Herder's volkishness to the noble savage idea from what is frankly a defence of Victorian progress.

    http://www.rogersandall.com/the-culture-cult-revisited/

    Frankly it is ridiculous to condemn natives for their value systems whilst endorsing the 19th century values relating to the Rape of the Congo, the Highland Clearances and what not. All the same Sandall is correct to refute noble savage nonsense but I find both perspectives unsatisfactory either as science or as philosophy. The idea things get better or worse with time is what philosophers call a teleological fallacy. Human behaviour, which is not something fixed, has inherited all the destructive traits seen in other animals precluding any credible attempt to romanticise it. However civilisation represents man's innate traits magnified to extroadinary degrees. So called primitives never had the capacity to harm others, or the ecosystem, or themselves the way high civilisation makes possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Hitler, Evola and others who might be considered right wing expressed a non-condescending admiration of the natives. To Evola they were aquiline and solar. Hitler viewed the replacement of the native North Americans as a matter of fact whilst expressing admiration for them. He grew up with literature sympathetic to Native Americans like many other Germans of his generation.
    Hitler, Evola and others never had to live near them or interact with them. Often when I speak with Germans they point out American racism towards negroes and my answer is always the same " you don't have to live near them and see how they act ".

    The noble savage archetype arose in the 18th century, not with leftism. The romantic interpretation of tribal people makes no sense unless one sees human nature as naturally good as opposed to a Hobbesian state of war against all. Admiration or otherwise of native peoples ought not depend upon such an idea however it was appropriated for the deconstruction of familiarity thereby weaponising and appropriating anthropological literature to political ends. Prior to that it was merely an 18th century expression of a universal belief in a Golden Age and the fall from grace.
    Leftism has existed long before the 18Th century and even before Europeans knew of the Americas, you can even state that all Abrahamic faiths have a certain amount of leftism engrained in their thought processes and belief system. So, yes it is very possible leftism influenced even Longfellow with the whole Hiawatha story and certainly James Fennimore Copper with his Leather Stocking Tales ( Last of Mohicans ) and other writers both before and after.


    So debates of Amerinds in North American discourse are influenced by two rival perspectives of European origin, each of them reflecting a view about the fundamental nature of man. In a way they even taint debates about Paleoamerican effects upon Pleistocene ecosystems.

    One writer who tackled the bowdlerisation of anthropology is Roger Sandall who ties Herder's volkishness to the noble savage idea from what is frankly a defence of Victorian progress.

    http://www.rogersandall.com/the-culture-cult-revisited/

    Frankly it is ridiculous to condemn natives for their value systems whilst endorsing the 19th century values relating to the Rape of the Congo, the Highland Clearances and what not. All the same Sandall is correct to refute noble savage nonsense but I find both perspectives unsatisfactory either as science or as philosophy. The idea things get better or worse with time is what philosophers call a teleological fallacy. Human behaviour, which is not something fixed, has inherited all the destructive traits seen in other animals precluding any credible attempt to romanticise it. However civilisation represents man's innate traits magnified to extroadinary degrees. So called primitives never had the capacity to harm others, or the ecosystem, or themselves the way high civilisation makes possible.
    I find it perfectly fine to condemn the red savages for their value system or I should say lack of value system. I view them as a primitive race of man and not much more, sorry if this offends you, but it is very true and I have most likely had more personal interaction with them than most on this board. While true there are exceptions of some individuals doing good, but as a whole their thought processes are vastly different than ours and I will always value my own people above those of other races.

    The whole is these savages were not "civilized" in any sense. They were/are basically a primitive tribe of human existing for the moment without ever striving to uplift or enlighten themselves, they can be compared much to the Sub-Saharan tribes of Africa in behavior. Personally I will never view these savages on the same intellectual plain as Germanics or other European groups, simply put they are savages focusing more on primordial instincts than building any lasting self sustainability or civilization.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    Anyone who uses the term "racist" in an accusatory manner, and without the quotation marks, is, whether through hatred or ignorance, actively assisting in the destruction of all European peoples and cultures. Don't do it. I don't care if it's some KKK guy in robes. Don't call him a "racist." Even KKK people are just trying to defend their own. That's the problem, really... we fight a defensive battle only. We should take the initiative against this weaponized language imposed by anti-white communists upon our people. Even average white folks use this term like the good sheep they are... imprisoning themselves with a toxic lie. Stop letting the enemy define your world and your language! This is OUR culture. These are OUR lands. They should be reserved for OUR PEOPLE, but using the term "racist" de-legitimizes all of that at once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    Anyone who uses the term "racist" in an accusatory manner, and without the quotation marks, is, whether through hatred or ignorance, actively assisting in the destruction of all European peoples and cultures. Don't do it. I don't care if it's some KKK guy in robes. Don't call him a "racist." Even KKK people are just trying to defend their own. That's the problem, really... we fight a defensive battle only. We should take the initiative against this weaponized language imposed by anti-white communists upon our people. Even average white folks use this term like the good sheep they are... imprisoning themselves with a toxic lie. Stop letting the enemy define your world and your language! This is OUR culture. These are OUR lands. They should be reserved for OUR PEOPLE, but using the term "racist" de-legitimizes all of that at once.
    I agree with everything you have written here, However I call myself a "racist". Mainly I do this out of sarcasm and also as a fact I want to de-weaponize the word itself. It means nothing to me and I don't find it insulting that I will stick up for our heritage and our folk. Further what or who would I be if I did think of our people first and think them the best? Perhaps a better term would be self love, but I refuse to allow my enemy to dictate which words I choose.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    I wonder what inspires the blatant Jewish ethnic supremacy and push for Lebensraum by the author's kinsman in Israel? (The article is taken from a Jewish online magazine, in case anyone didn't notice.)

    The article opens with a discussion of the Nuremberg Laws:

    In 1935, two years after Hitler came to power, Nazi Germany promulgated the so-called Nuremberg Laws. One of the two laws stripped Jews of their citizenship, leaving them instead as mere subjects. The other prohibited marriage or extramarital sex between Jews and persons of “German or related blood.”
    Meanwhile, it's apparently okay for Jews to take measures to protect their own bloodlines:



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    More of historical interest.



    Top poster here (Judith Meyer) demonstrates why WN etc turned to crap:
    https://www.quora.com/How-did-Karl-M...e-Adolf-Hitler

    Even a patriot who sees good in others, has "white guilt" according to Meyer. It doesn't really matter if she is WN or not; you have to be one one side or the other. Everyone has to see race issues in simplistic terms: god forbid someone use the other as a foil despite the cause of Europe's misfortunes after WW2. The idealised Amerinds of Karl May reflect a German self-image and sensibilities. When Americans helped destroy Germany 1914-18, the allegory must have seemed pertinent then.

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