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Thread: Rewriting the History of Games

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    You mean a home computer not a PC (IBM PC and compatible).
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    And Japan had her MSX home computer format.
    Which wasn't as successful nor had as many games as the C64, the ZX-Spectrum, the Amiga 500, etc.
    You did not refute my statement, that Western customers wanted a console which rivaled the home computer, not the arcade, partly because that's where many memories of games came from.
    In Germany - one of the biggest gaming markets (at that time at least) - I am not even sure if we ever had Arcades, certainly not in any considerable number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    And the near-death of arcade-inspired gaming outside Japan can be blamed on SCEA. [...] So I think that's damage unless you approve of gaming being murder simulators, GTA, chav racers and FIFA (each re-released every year).
    "Arcade inspired" is a rather broad term, and I agree, the current state is indeed damaged, but the first EA Sports titles were born during the SNES area, and some titles were actually good (2/3-D), the same goes for the chav-racer "Need for Speed" which declined simply due to endless recycling with only cosmetic additions.
    Yet, this is a more general problem in my opinion, since we can see the very same development with movies. I am not sure if I would mainly blame SCEA on this, then again, they also produce movies, don't they?
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  2. #12
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    Well I admit I am one of those Japan only people. I like linear games that test reflexes which rules out Western games.

    I think the last good Western game on a (then) current gen console, was X2.

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    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    Here a games journo is at it.

    https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2...age-of-shmups/

    Did you know there were no distinct games genres in the 1980s? And that all western shooting games were non-linear and arena based? I learned this from that blog post.

    What a load of rubbish.

    The letter is right: niche genres specialise upon pandering to a declining audience. Score shooters are great but they aren't entry level. At some point the income from such genres dries up as old fans drop out, and the genre dies - like Irem and others dropped out. Old arcade design was aimed at attracting casual players and hooking them with the learning curve so people would keep paying coins. Even in the quintessential arcade genre this was lost. Infinite continues and game saves are part of the problem because they undermine the efforts at designing a learning curve.

    Then comes the obligatory bit about the Western shmups dying first but also evolving into FPS. Why did arcade genres die even on home consoles in the west? Hint: SCEA. How are faceless space marines less accessible than spaceships? The FPS hasn't got its controls right yet: as 3D goes, spaceships were better for accessibility right back to the first ancient Star Wars license with its vector graphics.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    Another is that I keep seeing the Sega Saturn dismissed: they even repeat lies such as the Saturn having only two games that sold over two million copies. Even if it is just because the Saturn received slightly inferior PS1 ports they can't simply dismiss the Saturn, whilst praising the PS1 as a classic console for having the exact same titles. The hatchet job on Sega still won't die back after all these years.

    I hate Western games, the Western games industry and the people who play them. PS1 was to blame more than anything. That and certain people infiltrating Sega.

    Before, Jager said "arcade inspired" would be a broad term. He is wrong. I was referring to reflexes based gameplay, linear design, immediate accessibility down to simple controls and a learning curve of difficulty (for example: finite continues).

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Another is that I keep seeing the Sega Saturn dismissed
    I do not see this. It is mostly praised because of its excellent shmup library.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Before, Jager said "arcade inspired" would be a broad term. He is wrong. I was referring to reflexes based gameplay, linear design, immediate accessibility down to simple controls and a learning curve of difficulty (for example: finite continues).
    I was not wrong, you just simply gave a real definition. With a definition you can make any broad term tight. That's the very idea of a definition, but without it the term stays broad.

    In any case, this definition is very much contrary to Japanese RPGs, so I don't see a Western-Japanese dichotomy here.
    Even more so, since your definition fits perfectly for Pong - a Western game .

    I already told you, Western gamers grew up with home computers rather than arcades, the most paramount difference being the controls. This spawned a very different tradition of gaming. Of course, you are free to reject it, to each his own, but it doesn't make the industry damaged (not for this reason, but I agree it is damaged), it just makes you egocentric.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  6. #16
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    Well I already said the Japanese had home computers: they obviously have ROGs. But the success of Japanese home games outside Japan was mostly down to their expertise with designing arcade PCBS. True the US had such an industry (though it became imitative of the Japanese), but the UK did not. In that sense arcade genres are Japanese games. They certainly feel that way nowadays.

    Another odd thing I keep reading is that consoles killed arcades: though they made a dent in arcade attendance, it's a notion proved false already. The cost of new PBS and cabinets outside Japan made it prohibitive for arcades to keep current, whilst Japanese arcades are conveniently located for commuters. The effects of consoles were hitting by the time SF2 was released and it temporarily reversed the trend, globally: consoles did not replace the social experience of arcade gaming at all, and arcades can fight back with killer apps - where there still are arcades. The decline of arcades removed sociality from popular gaming, and it left a hole. Maybe the death of consoles will boost the arcades again.

    Interestingly Ubisoft (France) are making arcade cabinets I have seen in Peru. Though the games were of no interest imagine Japan exporting cabs at a better price to stimulate the market outside Japan.

    But more interestingly in Internet cafes there are young people - aged about 15 to 29 or so - playing esports here. They were competing and helping one another learn. One or two of them looked nerdy - most of them did not. They were socially functional as they communicated round the screens. What does that remind you of? Paradise lost.

    Esports and other gaming bars do not even compare. The games are not the focus: customers don't take gaming seriously there. Mana Bar and Meltdown were founded by nerds for nerds and gaming media hyped them as bringing games to a popular audience, but in practice neither intent panned out. Such places teem with chattering class hipsters. And of course I notice the gaming media had to bring the word "mature" into it, which is the biggest myth of all (that people ever thought "games are for kids" in the first place).

    I have never understood why gamers themselves buy this, because they must remember otherwise. It only applies to the NES era in North America. In Japan games always had a wider demographic: in the UK no one cared till the 16 bit era, when the games were first made popular with the rave generation. That was not little children. Then eventually the console with the widest demographic in the UK, was the Wii - with its cutesy graphics and shunning of "maturity". Whilst ten year olds played the "mature" games on the 360. The irony. But people still talk as though gaming is - or ever was - kids stuff. This is maybe the most annoying media lie about games, that is totally false and never corrected. But I can't pinpoint the origins of the perspective in the UK. I actually asked Glendenning once if he had intended to alienate teen gamers: he said no, so Glendenning is not to blame. (I suspect it began with the PS1 era zeitgeist nonetheless.)

    I'm repeating a couple of points here but all these things blur together and all the falsehoods prop one another up.

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    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    The history of games was rewritten because it is the poitless rather than Orwellian trend in pop culture journalism. By chance I found this criticism of the trend. Is it just an absence of fact checking followed by mindless plasgiarism?

    "But all those nodding dogs with fuck all to say, they're the "experts" now. The simplistic, smugly flippant nature of what passes for media commentary on popular culture is testament to that. Everyone else is excluded from the discourse, because God damn it, they complicate things."

    http://thequietus.com/articles/15092...ersary-review/

    Even the Charlie Brooker documentary (How Video Games Changed the World ) was blatantly false historiography, and Brooker is a pro games journo from PC Gamer. Nothing bad was said about the gaming industry through its history, and less still about the past problems of the British gaming industry. Very unlike Screenwipe and Newswipe. Its treatment of the subject was very shallow as either culture journalism or the history of a medium. Didn't even touch on electronic video games having two separate design roots prior to the non-dedicated home consoles, that inexactly correspond to subcultural differences between HC/PC and console users. this is not a minor problem - to gloss over fundamental things in a history.

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    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    I am not sure what your point is exactly, but SCEA's policy to neglect 2D spurred the 3D development, otherwise, many companies would just have kept making 2D games.
    Reading back through old threads I want to analyse this. Why is 3D good and especially at a time when it was so underpowered? A lot of people think games went 3D a console generation too early, and you agreed early PS games look awful, correct?

    The SCEA ban on 2D games was due to the console's rushed production meaning that it could only display pseudo-2D. And the silly ban excluded titles with 2D gameplay, if the graphics looked polygonal rather than simulating 2D sprites. A distinction must be made between the 2D look, and the 2D gameplay. though, the banning of the former in America (and in effect the UK) led to a decline of the latter.

    Anyway, the good news is the PS4 is flopping even in Japan. And along with the PlayStation brand will soon die Sony. Amid their awful treatment of consumers and their shit tier net security. Good riddance. Sumer is icumen in? If it won't undo the damage Sony caused at least we can enjoy watching it die.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    A lot of people think games went 3D a console generation too early, and you agreed early PS games look awful, correct?
    More or less.
    However, the advantage of going into 3D early was not looks, but the gameplay. People simply didn't know how to design levels and controls for 3D. The computer had different peripherals (mouse and keyboard) so the ps1 was an excellent testing ground. It paved the way for good 3D games, even during its own life cycle. As I said, you can basically call every title with a "2" in it better than its precursor, you could literally watch the evolution of 3D games.
    And that the PS2 was the most successful console of all time wouldn't have happened without PS1.
    Commercially, Sony did everything right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    The SCEA ban on 2D games was due to the console's rushed production meaning that it could only display pseudo-2D.
    There is nothing wrong with "pseudo-2D" (I think it is factually more correct to call anything we view on a 2D screen pseudo-3D). It is just a matter of programming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    And the silly ban excluded titles with 2D gameplay, if the graphics looked polygonal rather than simulating 2D sprites.
    Competing consoles like the Jaguar, the 3DO, the Amiga CD32 and the Saturn did not have hardware acceleration for 3D, and they got all smashed by the psx. So there was a demand for 3D from the consumer. Thus even without the ban, I do not think it would have played out much differently. In Japan there was no such ban, and good 2D titles are not plenty there either, I can think only of 3: Panzer Bandit, Little Ralph and Harmful Park.
    The rest is more or less just about Arcade ports, Sony America did right in going for fresh games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    A distinction must be made between the 2D look, and the 2D gameplay. though, the banning of the former in America (and in effect the UK) led to a decline of the latter.
    Well, I am not sold on the idea that the ban is the only reason. In the early 90s live video was the big thing, and EA even built a whole console around this (the 3DO), it didn't do jack to decline or incline anything! It just flopped.
    The reason it worked with Sony was because 3D was immensely sought after by the consumer. Since video game companies want to make money, they would have given them 3D, it's just that simple.

    What we have now are countless of Indie game developers copying 8 and 16 bit graphics and 2D game play, that's because these kind of games can actually be designed/implemented by one or two persons easily.
    So we certainly of tons of 2D game play nowadays. Due to restrictive licensing issues, those games are usually released (mostly) only for the PC.
    The lesson: consoles always chase after the PC

    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Anyway, the good news is the PS4 is flopping even in Japan. And along with the PlayStation brand will soon die Sony.
    What is the competition? The PC?
    In any case, the PS4 is not doing super well, but it is still no commercial failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Amid their awful treatment of consumers and their shit tier net security. Good riddance. Sumer is icumen in? If it won't undo the damage Sony caused at least we can enjoy watching it die.
    I wouldn't mind.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  10. #20
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
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    If people simply didn't know how to design levels and controls for 3D, surely that confirms it was risky and premature.

    The PS1 brought the origins of what in the UK we call the chav gamers: racing and soccer games had always existed, but people played other things as well before the PS1. When the PS1 took off amid a resurgence in birds, balls and booze culture, the average PS1 owner played little or anything else. Perhaps this is the commercial success of Sony (yuck) because the mentality of the casual/chav gamer is still afflicting us now.

    The PS1 is actually well known for shootingu titles. Its just that the West did not recieve them.

    http://www.racketboy.com/retro/pheno...shmups-library

    And the Euroshmup (Apidya, Project X, SWIV) was well loved and huge on the Amiga and the 16 bit consoles: I still don't understand why it died other than licensing hostility.

    Indie games cost nothing and attract no real attention: they are not taken seriously and those with retro graphics seem aimed at hipsters rather than games fans. Meanwhile niche bullet hell games can slow down current gen consoles - cutting edge not retro.

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