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Thread: Pan-Hellenism and Greeks, Albanians and Armenians

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    Exclamation Pan-Hellenism and Greeks, Albanians and Armenians

    1. Greeks, Albanians and Armenians are three distinct ethnic groups.
    2. Neither Albanians nor Armenians are Greek.
    3. The average Albanian is closer genetically to the average Greek (than the average Armenian is).
    4. Individuals of Albanian and Armenian heritage have been Hellenized in the past, and I consider every child of Greek-Albanian or Greek-Armenian parentage to be Greek provided that he considers himself to be Greek.
    5. Armenians share a history of common struggles to survive as an ethnic group against the Ottomans; Muslim Albanians on the other hand were always on the opposing side.
    6. Greeks have no hard feelings towards Albanians per se, only towards the gangs of Albanians that have infested Greece. Peace-loving Albanians have no problems in Greece.
    7. The Greek War of Independence was fought by people who called themselves "Graikoi", or "Hellenes" or "Romioi" to various degrees. It was not fought by people who had an Albanian ethnic consciousness. Whether some of them were Albanian speaking is irrelevant, since ethnic consciousness not language determines ethnicity; if language determined ethnicity then the people of Scotland or Jamaica would be "English".
    8. The Greek state should be harsh on foreign criminals irrespective of ethnic origins, and have an assimilationist policy toward peace-loving Christians living in Greece. Ethnic heterogeneity is detrimental to Greece's national interest.
    9. Albanians dreaming of uniting with Greece by a joint reversion to paganism are utopianists. Greece is a Christian nation, and the modern Greek identity is a Christian Orthodox-Greek identity.

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    Post Re: Pan-European Albanians and Greeks

    Well said, I agree with you on all the points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes_Pontikos
    1. Greeks, Albanians and Armenians are three distinct ethnic groups.
    2. Neither Albanians nor Armenians are Greek.
    3. The average Albanian is closer genetically to the average Greek (than the average Armenian is).
    4. Individuals of Albanian and Armenian heritage have been Hellenized in the past, and I consider every child of Greek-Albanian or Greek-Armenian parentage to be Greek provided that he considers himself to be Greek.
    5. Armenians share a history of common struggles to survive as an ethnic group against the Ottomans; Muslim Albanians on the other hand were always on the opposing side.
    6. Greeks have no hard feelings towards Albanians per se, only towards the gangs of Albanians that have infested Greece. Peace-loving Albanians have no problems in Greece.
    7. The Greek War of Independence was fought by people who called themselves "Graikoi", or "Hellenes" or "Romioi" to various degrees. It was not fought by people who had an Albanian ethnic consciousness. Whether some of them were Albanian speaking is irrelevant, since ethnic consciousness not language determines ethnicity; if language determined ethnicity then the people of Scotland or Jamaica would be "English".
    8. The Greek state should be harsh on foreign criminals irrespective of ethnic origins, and have an assimilationist policy toward peace-loving Christians living in Greece. Ethnic heterogeneity is detrimental to Greece's national interest.
    9. Albanians dreaming of uniting with Greece by a joint reversion to paganism are utopianists. Greece is a Christian nation, and the modern Greek identity is a Christian Orthodox-Greek identity.

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    Post Re: Pan-European Albanians and Greeks

    What you posted is very funny to me considering I look like the guy you have on your avatar picture.

    What is your opinion on the Dorian origins of the Albanian ethny?

    About the Albanians in Greece, the Arvanites, the fact remains that they were the protectors of Greece. Also many Greeks today that have some or almost all Albanian origin claim to be racially pure Greeks. I think that just goes to show the ethnic relatedness, maybe the most obvious. I'm just trying to say that some Greeks that are totally anti-Albanian need to recognize that they are being hypocritical.

    As for the utopian types I am familiar with. They think that if every body goes back and worships the ancient Greek religion all of their problems will be solved. I believ that ancient Greek civilization and education should be applied fiercly to the Greek (and then general European) education system. Through this people will be able to decide for themselves wether Orthdoxy is useful or not.

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    Post Re: Pan-European Albanians and Greeks

    "muslim Albanians always on the opposing side"

    You mean some muslim Albanians.

    And before we were defeated by the Ottomans we were the only ones that did succesfully resist and deafeated the Ottomans on the holy soil of Kruja and other parts of Albania many times. This was truely the second Thermopylae and Gjergj Kastrioti seemingly a reincarnation of the great Leonidas. And even after he died a lot of us continued his fight as much as we could.

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    Post Re: Pan-European Albanians and Greeks

    Pontikos, I see on your banner that you have ancient Greek and Orthodox elements combine.

    Would you suppose it hypocritical if a group of muslim Greeks destroyed Orthodoxy and latter on the inernet had on their banners Orthodox and Islamic elements?

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    Post Re: Pan-European Albanians and Greeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrkanos
    Pontikos, I see on your banner that you have ancient Greek and Orthodox elements combine.
    I don't see any combination of different "elements", just a continuum of aspects of Greek civilization from prehistory to the present.

    Would you suppose it hypocritical if a group of muslim Greeks destroyed Orthodoxy and latter on the inernet had on their banners Orthodox and Islamic elements?
    This is a non-issue since your hypothetical case exists today and it's called Turkey, but I don't see any of the Turks adopting Orthodox symbols.

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    Post Re: Pan-European Albanians and Greeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrkanos
    "muslim Albanians always on the opposing side"

    You mean some muslim Albanians.
    Obviously not all muslim Albanians opposed Christians all the time. In general though Muslim Albanians sided with the Ottomans and not with Christians.

    And before we were defeated by the Ottomans we were the only ones that did succesfully resist and deafeated the Ottomans on the holy soil of Kruja and other parts of Albania many times. This was truely the second Thermopylae and Gjergj Kastrioti seemingly a reincarnation of the great Leonidas. And even after he died a lot of us continued his fight as much as we could.
    Kastriotis was a Christian not a Muslim Albanian.

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    Post Re: Pan-European Albanians and Greeks

    What is your opinion on the Dorian origins of the Albanian ethny?
    Albanians are unrelated to the Dorians. The Dorians were a Greek subgroup speaking a Greek dialect. Albanians are a non-Greek ethnic group speaking a non-Greek (albeit Indo-European) language.

    About the Albanians in Greece, the Arvanites, the fact remains that they were the protectors of Greece.
    The Arvanites did not think of themselves as "Albanian". It is presumptuous to call them Albanian when they did not see themselves as such.

    Also many Greeks today that have some or almost all Albanian origin claim to be racially pure Greeks.
    Anyone who claims to be "racially pure" anything should submit his genealogical tree to prove it. No one can establish "racial purity". Arvanites generally see themselves as Greek and are seen by other Greeks as Greek. Therefore they are Greeks.

    I think that just goes to show the ethnic relatedness, maybe the most obvious. I'm just trying to say that some Greeks that are totally anti-Albanian need to recognize that they are being hypocritical.
    As I mentioned above, Greeks are generally not anti-Albanian they are just anti-Albanian criminal/nationalist. They are pissed off by the Albanian thugs who rob them or by the Albanian nationalists and their tall claims, not with Albanians in general.

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    Post Re: Pan-European Albanians and Greeks

    Greeks and Albanians have contributed in very different ways to the advancement of European culture. The people have certainly different phenotypes. Ordinary people do not care so much about genetic markers. The average Albanian can pass in Scandinavia because of often times strong blondism, the average Greek is seen as no different than most Syrians and Lebanese. I do not think that the people have the same mentality or culture. I actually find it surprising how different they are considering the geographical proximity.

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    Post Re: Pan-European Albanians and Greeks

    EYTYXEITE!

    Dear Tyrkanos, the only problem in present-day Hellas is that there are so many confused "inhabitants" who flounder between The Twelve Gods and ...Christianism, between Dorism and ...Talmudism, between Olympus and ...Sion!
    They are "semi-"..., you are an upright Man!
    Keep up your original Nature, let them tottering down the street!
    Hellenes are only those who honour their origins. All the rest to Kaiadas!
    Fortunately, Albanians keep the original Hellenic originality much more than many pseudo-Greeks involved in Cristianity.
    Kindest Regards!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrkanos
    Well Greekoid, I feel sorry for you. Or atleast maybe I should. How can you be so hostile to Albanians considering that if it wasn't for them Greek history most probably would have taken a darker course. Also I can assure you that I am not a pety thug and I am a pan-European with a genuine idea.

    I strongly suggest you personally read up on the Albanian involvment in the struggle for Hellenic independence.

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