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Thread: The Vedic Aryan Gods

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    Post Re: What is the Aryavarta?

    The early Vedic Aryans were polytheists with roughly the same pantheon as the Greeks and Norse. Some of the gods have a clear and common origin with the ancient Indo-Europeans from which we have no direct writings. For example, Thorburn and Indra are both thunder and war gods who slew/fought a serpent. They were a rural/pastoral and martial people. You can get an idea of what they believed by reading the Rig Veda -- but there's over a thousand hymns!

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/

    Most of Rig Veda is believed to date to about 1500 BC ... making it the oldest of all Aryan writings (except pos. some Hittite fragments). In general, Rig Veda is about the gods, wars, ritual.

    Later Vedas added to this lore but in an evolved form eventually leading to the Upanishads (Indic philosopy) and the Book of Manu (caste system separating Aryans from the natives). Rig Veda and others have numerous and distinct racial references. The Sanskrit word for caste, "varna", means 'color'. The Vedic people had "Aryan color" and were "fair", "light complexioned" while the Dasa enemies were "dark", "dusky", "black skinned" and "noseless."

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    Post Re: What is the Aryavarta?

    That's so cool.

    I wonder how much Classical Indian thought survived to this day. I've recently become interested in things like yoga, vashtu (classical Indian design, similar to feng shui), and ayurveda and have always wondered if these things have Hindu roots, or are more ancient than that.

    I've also heard that the Vedas and the Norse Sagas are related; is this true? Is it also true that the ancient Brahmins eventually became the Celts and/or the Norse?
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    Post Re: What is the Aryavarta?

    Rig Veda and the Norse Eddas share a common root. As far as 'Aryan thought' goes RV is nearer in time to that root.

    The recent notion that Brahmnistic religion spread OUT from India in very early times is the result of Indian Nationalist revisionism. This idea is usually coupled with an attempt to disprove the Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT). Unfortunately, these tamperings have done little for real scholarship. The only clear picture is that no later than 2200 BC the Indo-Europeans (proto-Aryans) started expanding from the steppe regions east, west and south and certainly not from Northern India at this time. Where the Indo-Europeans were before they occupied the steppe is a matter of conjecture, but linguistic evidence places them in contact with Finno-Ugaric groups (which were no where near India).

    So.....the Indo-Europeans brought their culture/language/religion to Europe, Asia Minor and Central Asia. The priestly class developed later into Druids and Brahmins. Based on the Tocharian mummies, Rig Vedic and Greek sources, these Indo-Europeans were biologically European.

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    Post Re: What is the Aryavarta?

    Where the Indo-Europeans were before they occupied the steppe is a matter of conjecture, but linguistic evidence places them in contact with Finno-Ugaric groups (which were no where near India).
    Its all a matter of "which theory" you follow. I personally place the homeland of the Indo-Europeans in the Caucasus, that would be the most logical place. If you follow the theory that we ARE the descendants of the Aryans then we most likely moved south into NW India eventually spreading back out into Europe. This is perhas why it is the Slavic and Greek languages that most resemble the Old Sanskrit. Personally I think if it is true, that they eventually moved up into the Black Sea area where a major flood, which is quite possible, caused them to eventually spread out into different "tribes" forming the main European peoples of today.


    I was thinking the other day, now this has no real factual evidence to support it but it was just a thought, that perhaps we, the Indo-Europeans, were perhaps just a "cousin race" to the Aryans, or just another branch of the Indo-European tree that is now extinct. What do you think?

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    Post Re: What is the Aryavarta?

    But no one has answered my question about yoga, vashtu, and ayurveda. Anyone know how ancient these schools of though actually are?

    I'd also like to to a more thorough study of Sanskrit.

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    Post Re: What is the Aryavarta?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnionPeeler
    Rig Veda and the Norse Eddas share a common root. As far as 'Aryan thought' goes RV is nearer in time to that root.
    Its not thought, it is the whole Sittengessischte, from the period of unrecorded history.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnionPeeler
    The recent notion that Brahmnistic religion spread OUT from India in very early times is the result of Indian Nationalist revisionism. This idea is usually coupled with an attempt to disprove the Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT).
    It started with some flaws in the 19th century-approach in scholarship of Indo-European Origins, and turned into some unknown agenda, on both sides. Although it did produce one of the best scholars of Indo-European Studies-Prof Max Mueller, that century didn't have access to devices which will 'bloom' in a very remarkable way, in our times. Now Indo-European studies are altogether buried in mutual fighting, from all sorts of fellows, with all sorts of agendas as well.

    In my opinion, pre-1945 Germany had produced the best scholarship in this discipline. Russia, Denmark and Sweden had an equally great contribution during periods prior to 1945, until 'jewish-salvation' of Europe.

    Now its the Jewish Nationalism in the West as well as East which is riding high on its "truthful" and "correct" approach to Indo-European Studies. It tries to ridicule and rubbish the past, nothing else.

    Is that scholarship?
    Quote Originally Posted by OnionPeeler
    Unfortunately, these tamperings have done little for real scholarship. The only clear picture is that no later than 2200 BC the Indo-Europeans (proto-Aryans) started expanding from the steppe regions east, west and south and certainly not from Northern India at this time. Where the Indo-Europeans were before they occupied the steppe is a matter of conjecture, but linguistic evidence places them in contact with Finno-Ugaric groups (which were no where near India).
    There is no real scholarship on either side.
    And as for the original homeland, Kashmir could also be the original homeland, given the complete genetic, geological and Sitten's history picture which we get.
    This is not to say that Arctic is unlikely in that event. Both retain the possibility. But for some reason, a logically arrived-at conjecture with Caucasus as the original home is unsound.

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    Post Re: What is the Aryavarta?

    In terms of rituals it is surprising how much traditional Hinduism and Roman religion have in common. Good old George Dumezil looked into the matter pretty hard... there's even a 1935 book of his called something like 'Flamen et Brahman', I think...

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    Post Re: What is the Aryavarta?

    Isnt this religion similar to the Persian religion? Persia is Aryan. In fact if nothing else, that is what the word means right?

    BTW, do you consider Persians, Northern Indians and other IndoEuropeans to be allies by race and like?

    I think deffinatley yes, help India defeat Islamic Pakistan!!!

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    Post Re: What is the Aryavarta?

    The Sanskrit connection to Persian is too similar to ignore and to refute the AI theory is pure ignorance. In Sanskrit deva means "god", In Persian daeva means "demon". In Sanskrit there are the deities Mitra, Aryamana, and Indra, In Persian there are the deities/spirits Mithras, Ahriman, and Indra (though in Avestan Indra is a demon). Mithras and Mitra are a direct correlation. In Sanskrit Asura = malignant spirit, in Persian Ahura = divine spirit. In Sanskrit Soma = an intoxicating ritual drink, In Persian Haoma = the same.

    The similarities are hard to ignore.

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    Re: What is the Aryavarta?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnionPeeler
    Where the Indo-Europeans were before they occupied the steppe is a matter of conjecture
    No conjecture is required. RigVeda clearly mentions a seven-month day, a dawn or dusk extending to one month, a night extending to three months. That places them high in the Arctic Circle. The Zorastrian Avesta gives the reason for their migration, a deluge by snow (before the maximum glaciation 18000 years ago).

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