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Thread: Major Differences Between Iran-Afghan/Indic and the Various European Sub-Races?

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    Major Differences Between Iran-Afghan/Indic and the Various European Sub-Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by æþeling
    What are the major differences between Iran-Afghan/Indic and the various European sub-races? I mean in terms of skull shape, facial features, body build, etc.
    Nordindids are something else, but Irano-Afghans (better: Afghanids or Afghanians) differ metrically from Nordids in having a longer forehead and nose.

    "Southwards we come across the eastern extension of the white race, the Irano-Afghans, a mixture of Nordic and Mediterrean peoples. At one time their ancestors must have lived on the grassy plains about the Oxus and Jaxartes rivers in what is now Russian Turkestan. The Aryans were the first to move in about 1400 B.C., taking their cattle into India; some six hundred years later the nomadic, horse-riding Iranians moved into Persia. Those who remained behind apparently mingled with Altaic-speakers, and their culture went west with the Scyths, and eastwards into China.

    Nomads still live in the area, such as the Kurds, who may be descendants of proto-Nordic steppe peoples of Turkestan. Though somewhat mixed with Irano-Afghans, they have kept something of their type and language for three millenia. They once lived in Kurdestan, to the south of Armenia, but their warlike character has caused them to be ousted from country after country, so that they now live in Iran, Iraq, and Turkey, and at the time of writing they are once more up in arms, this time against the central government of Iran.

    Their Nordic character comes out in the blond hair and blue eyes which quite half of them possess, especially in the west; in the east, as they intermarry with Turks and Armenians, their heads become rounder, their hair darker and their features uglier.

    The earliest Iranians proper entered Iran in the 8th century B.C., when there was more rainfall and less desert, and they eventually founded the great empires of the Medes (partly Armenian) and Persians, which at one time covered most of the Middle East, and were only stopped from entering Europe by the Greeks.

    After the invasions of the Huns, the Arabs formed an empire from 637 to 1029 A.D., and established themselves throughout the country; the Seljuk Turks swarmed in during the 11th century, followed by the great Mongol invasions under Genghis Khan and Timur; in the 18th century there came the Afghan conquest. Thus, though the Iranians are originally descended from early Nordics, the Nordic strain is hard to find. The northwest is largely peopled by brachycephalic Turkomans, the Tajiks, some with Armenoid features and others, long-faced, with Turki ones. Elsewhere the type is Mediterranean, either with the straight nose of the Arabs or with the convex one of the Afghan.

    Thus those living near Persepolis, the Farsi, are slender, fair-skinned and with abundant chestnut hair, through a few blonds are present; they have long heads with convex narrow noses.

    This is a more or less Mediterranean stock, though the jaw is heavier than usual for Arabs. Another large group, the Lurs of eastern Iran, are taller, darker, and more dolichocephalic with an oval face. The population is expecially mixed in the cities where some brachycephalic types may have come either from the north or from the Baluchis in the south.

    The Baluchis, some of whom claim Arab descent, are a cross between Iranians, Arabs, Scythians and the ancient Veddoid strain which is otherwise seen amongst the hill tribes of India. They are tall, fair, broad-headed, with a long and narrow nose. Many of them are sought for as soldiers, being fine horsemen and more tractable than their neighbours, the Pathans.

    The Pathans and Afghans to the east are often confused with one another. The western Pathans are of the Pathans proper, and extend from within the eastern border of Iran to the head of the Khyber pass; the eastern Pathans, or Afghans proper, who include the Afridi, Mohmand and Waziri tribes, extend from the Khyber pass south into western Baluchistan, the southern two-thirds of the famous North-West frontier.

    this country is strategically important, as it lies across the main routes from India to the Middle East, and all pretenders to empire have tried to control the Hindu Kush from where an easy passage into India is possible. Here the Aryans and Mauryans entered India; here came Alexander, the tribes of the Yueh Chi, The Mongols, the Huns and the Persians, all of whom made this country one of great racial admixture.

    Amongst the Pathans are the Hazaras, a remnant of the Mongolian expansion left there by Genghis Khan in the 14th century; they are endogamous and have hardly affected the racial composition of the area. Northwards is a territory with Dardic-speaking inhabitants; the Kafir, the most primitive of these, are divided into strictly segregated social classes representing conquerors and aboriginals, the latter being said to have a non Indo-European language. The country is so inaccessible that the Kafir were only converted to Islam at the turn of this century.

    Pathans, Afghans and Persians are all similar in appearace; they are dolichocephalic, with long faces and noses, hair usually dark but sometimes fair. Metrically they can only be distinguished from Nordics by their longer foreheads and noses. The facial bones are much heavier than those of Mediterranean Arabs, and the living face shows a surprising amount of bony relief and fine modelling. The Dardic-speaking Kafirs are essentially similar, though they are much blonder: an inheritance from the Nordic invaders of the region. The aboriginal population, however, is smaller and shorter-nosed."

    Source: Francis Huxley, Peoples of the World in Colour, Irano-Afghans, pp. 126-128, Blandford Press, London, 1975.

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    Post Re: Indic Med

    most is ridiculous...nordics never entered the khyber...these are pure long skulled eastern Meds...even in Iran...blondes occur with children but this isn't a typical nordic trait...as the hair gets darker when they grow older

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    Post Re: Indic Med

    Baker (Race, chapter 13, 1974) also wrote blondism occurs in various populations without it being Nordid in origin. He even said the same about "Dalofaelids" and "Osteuropids".

    Blondism in itself is not enough but it is more important together with similarities in morphology.

    I think Francis Huxley meant an ancient relation, like proto-Nordic steppe people.

    Quote Originally Posted by android
    most is ridiculous...nordics never entered the khyber...these are pure long skulled eastern Meds...even in Iran...blondes occur with children but this isn't a typical nordic trait...as the hair gets darker when they grow older

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    Post Re: Indic Med

    Quote Originally Posted by android
    most is ridiculous...nordics never entered the khyber...
    Tell, me when/why they never entered the Khyber?

    Quote Originally Posted by android
    These are pure long skulled eastern Meds...even in Iran...blondes occur with children but this isn't a typical nordic trait...as the hair gets darker when they grow older
    As is with most North Europeans, are they all not Nordid ?

    In that case most not light or medium blonde haired people on Skadi could ...

    Quote Originally Posted by android
    These are pure long skulled eastern Meds...even in Iran...blondes occur with children but this isn't a typical nordic trait...as the hair gets darker when they grow older
    What's are your facts on this ? (Blonde people in Iran etc.. are all Pontid ?)
    Mostly Irano- Afghan are described as Irano-Nordoid meaning metrical not the same as Mediterranoid.

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    Post Re: Indic Med

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerled
    Tell, me when/why they never entered the Khyber?



    As is with most North Europeans, are they all not Nordid ?
    Just didn't happen...Aryans weren't Nordic

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    Post Re: Indic Med

    Quote Originally Posted by android
    Just didn't happen...Aryans weren't Nordic
    But there were at least Nordoid individuals under them, the question would be mainly the percentage at the time they came to Iran and India - and how big the impact was. According to some newer studies Dienekes posted recently the impact might have been rather low in South Asia - but thats still not really cleared up.

    However, if, we can only see influences in the NW areas which are more Iranid-Nordindid anyway.
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    Post Re: Indic Med

    Here the Aryans and Mauryans entered India; here came Alexander, the tribes of the Yueh Chi, The Mongols, the Huns and the Persians, all of whom made this country one of great racial admixture.
    This one is an absolute joke. Mauryas were a people of eastern india, the dynasty was founded by chandragupta maurya-a magadhan boy, who, together with his teacher-Chanakya, also from Magadh(modern day Bihar-Bengal) dethroned the Nanda king.

    Yes, he had migrated to the north west for a brief period, but the mauryans, natives of Bihar and clearly distinct from the North western people, far from entered through the Khyber corridoor, infact the khyber wasn't called so at all, their was a continuity of a common people's rule from Potohar-Kashmir into Balkh and Eastern Afghanistan before Arabs invaded.

    I do not see any possibility of our people having anything to do with Mediterraneans or the Nordics.

    And you do find blonde hair in some parts of Kashmir and among some Pathans of the east even, Kalasha Kafiris who are blonde look quite disgusting, if one was to ask the local standard of beauty, from a local.

    On the other hand I have a few Pathan friends, among them Waziris and Mahsud tribesmen, and bangash, with Green, Gray Eyes(a phenomenon common among our people) who are different and look quite beautiful.

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    Post Re: Indic Med

    I do not see any possibility of our people having anything to do with Mediterraneans or the Nordics.
    Well, I saw some studies and results, maybe I will post it if I have the time. But generally speaking you are right, the whole "Northern Aryan complex" (Pathan, Kafirs, Tajiks) belongs basically to Pamirids (Europid Turanid variant) and Iranids, with all having influences in the North, both reflected in archaeological remains and in a significantly higher percentage of lighter hair, eye and skin. Especially in Kafirs, but in those there are great differences from tribe to tribe both in morphology and pigmentation - especially if considering their former slaves as well which are now counted simply as Kafirs too. In Kafirs some consider isolation effects of having a great importance because whereas in Pathans and Tajiks mixed eyes are relatively common on a low level blue eyes are in some isolated Kafirs more common - probably the effect of a mixed Aryan group marching in the isolated valleys, gendrift and local selection took place - result is a higher percentage of light eyes though light eyes are in the whole Iranid-Pamirid (partly Nordindid) "Northern Aryan complex" common.
    Pathans themselves vary again from Pamirid/Dinaroid to Iranid, but with certain Nordindid and Nordoid elements as well.

    For the whole subcontinent Protomediterranid was the main Europid influence - with the exception of the Dinariomorphic and Alpinomorphic elements form the North (Pamirid) and a coastal element (Indobrachid) which relations are not clear. In the Indus valley culture first a mixture of Protomediterranid with Weddoid/Protoeuropid elements was present and later Protomediterranid with new elements of Cromagnoids and Nordoids/"Protonordics" which might have relations to similar populations from Iran.
    Most recent researches and some comments of older anthropologists point to a rather minor influence of original Aryans for the whole population structure of the subcontinent.
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    Post Re: Indic Med

    Mediterannean skulls have been found in Harappa and Mohenjo Daro...and alot of the Bollywood actors do look mediterannean....also Sanskrit is rather related to Old Greek then to northern european languages.

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    Post Re: Indic Med

    Quote Originally Posted by android
    Mediterannean skulls have been found in Harappa and Mohenjo Daro...and alot of the Bollywood actors do look mediterannean....also Sanskrit is rather related to Old Greek then to northern european languages.
    That might be due the age of the language as well, since at the time both Sanskrit and Old Greek were alive the Indoeuropean dialects and languages were not as different as they are now most likely. Furthermore the relations are as closer or better even closer to Baltoslavic from what I know, whats just natural if you think about the Aryan expansion going from Southern Russia over Central Asia.
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