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Thread: Stauffenberg: A Noble and Hero

  1. #61
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    I endorse Stauffenberg. I think NS started out ok, people benefiting from economic and social changes but then Hitler turned into a madman and started making unfitting decisions about the people and his generals. When a dictator makes bad decisions and abuses his role, it's time for him to be removed from power. Dictatorship should serve the country; a dictator must take care of his country as if the citizens were his children, so not hurt them or anything like that. Not to mention he was better looking than Hitler.

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    How can he be "noble and hero"? He was a traitor!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    How can he be "noble and hero"? He was a traitor!
    A traitor to what? Worshipping Adolf Hitler? Hitler was going insane and pushed Germany into continuing a futile war which destroyed a big part of Germany and its people.

    "We shall not capitulate... no never. We may be destroyed, but if we are, we shall drag a world with us... a world in flames." - Adolf Hitler

    Stauffenberg cared for his people and for Germany. Hitler did not. He was a madman with too much pride.


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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    I'm already looking forward to the american Movie about this.

    But Stauffenberg is not a Hero. He and the Others tried something good and heroic for Germany, but failed and even killed Innocents.
    He would be a Hero if he would have shot Hitler, then no innocents would have died and Hitler would have been dead.




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    I think his intentions were heroic. He was sensible enough to realize Germany was losing the war and the excesses of National Socialism and Hitler needed to be removed, he was sensible enough to realize that a revolt from the masses was not doable. But yes one could say that he committed treason because he broke his oath of loyalty to Hitler. That raises the question though, what is the validity and value of such oaths of loyalty. I generally find oaths of loyalty to persons embodying the nation instead of simply the nation to be dubious. Humans are flawed, and unconditional support for a leader can turn out to be detrimental should he lose sense of reality. There is a saying "all is fair in love and war", and sometimes it takes treason towards something/someone in order to achieve a higher cause. IMO, betraying Hitler was not what is reproachable about his acts, but the assassination method he chose. Planting bombs which could (and actually did) hurt other parties is not the most appropriate way to eliminate someone without causing third party victims. Stauffenberg himself couldn't have shot Hitler of course, given his handicap, but he could have assigned someone else who was capable of doing it. So a hero he would have been, IMO, if the plot had been successful without other victims and the unconditional surrender of Germany had been avoided. But of course he deserves credit for his intentions.

    As for his idolization in the FRG, that the FRG endorses him is not a reason to dismiss him immediately. The FRG will obviously praise anyone who opposed Hitler, however Stauffenberg had little to do with the principles the FRG is preaching. Stauffenberg was a conservative nationalist.

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    Germany's Opinion Of Stauffenberg

    Hello, I am wondering what the German members of the forum think of Von Stauffenberg. The new government he and others tried to create and his attempted move to kill Hitler and then get rid of the Nazi government. Do you Germans support his group's actions or are they condemned?

    Link to the upcoming movie and vague description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrie_(film)
    Last edited by Hauke Haien; Friday, January 2nd, 2009 at 03:52 AM. Reason: fixed link

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    Traitor, yet, due to his failure, the actions of his gang did more damage to Germany, and maybe even prevented victory.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Stauffenberg would have to be considered a hero if he had succeeded in his goals, which went well beyond the assassination as such. He apparently did not realise that our enemies were not interested in removing Hitler rather than destroying and subjugating Germany herself as a potential competitor and an independent centre of power.

    As it stands, Stauffenberg is a breaker of oaths and a traitor while Hitler merely failed to fulfil his duties as the leader of the German people in a successful manner.

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    Hello
    Most of the Germans today consider Stauffenberg as a true hero of the Patriotic Movement of Germans which of course has nothing to do with National Socialism. In addition, there is a growing amount of books in support of this theory due to the attempt to ensure that the Germans should fight any National Socialist movement in favour of a simple Bourgois patriotism.
    Definetely, Stauffenberg was a traitor not because he tried to assasinate Hitler, but because he tried to do that during a situation of War. Stauffenberg gains from history, not only the title of the traitor, but also the title of the first bourgois German. This type of German was the reason that Germany falled, simple because the Germans failed to defend Germany until death. It comes as no surpise that Stauffenberg-sort of personality is much adored today.
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    Since another non-German responded, I'll take that as carte blanche to give my opinion. I'm going to look beyond the question of whether attempting to assassinate Hitler was a good thing or a bad thing, to give my take on whether his modus operandi was that of a hero.

    A real hero would've sacrificed his own life in order to make sure the job was done. Does a hero just leave a bomb and sneak away to save himself? And what about the lesser-knowns that he killed that day? I guess in his mind they were expendable but he wasn't? What kind of hero is that? He was a coward.

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