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Thread: Stauffenberg: A Noble and Hero

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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Skadi index page Nazi watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorburn View Post
    One doesn't continue a war that can no longer be won -- at least not if non-volunteers (recruits) and civilians will be affected.
    Every country taking part in WWII had a draft force, there were no pure volunteer-armies. As is reasonable, for it isn't possible for any "system" to build up a military force of ten millions only consisting of voluteers.

    Aren't the US talking about a draft even now?

    So what's the point of "recruits being affected"? All soldiers are recruits when they enter the army.

    Civilians? The blockade of the German coast and the seizure of German freighters was a violation of the Geneva Convention, which stipulated that war must not be directed against civilians. But any blockade of Germany would result inevitably in the starvation of hundreds of thousands, as it did in WWI, and was hoped to do so in WWII.

    In WWII, however, there was no starvation, even no famine in Germany, for Hitler had taken appropriate precautions. These precautions were not taken by the reactionary Prussian military clique in WWI. So, one can only say, that Hitler was far more careful and had deeper insight into the nature of war than all those Barons of... , Dukes of... , and Kings of ... together.
    Only a fool could have missed that in 1944 Germany was outnumbered at ratios between 1:4 and 1:20,
    Yes. The USA had some 40 Aircraft carrier-vessels, and Germany had none. But the US had to deploy most of these ships in the Pacific theatre against the Japanese.

    And the Japanese began to attack these very ships from October 1944 on (so three months after the Stauffenberg putch) by Kamikaze. The Americans were frightened and enraged by these Kamikaze. They called them 'Bakas' ('idiots').

    Today, it is always claimed, that the Kamikaze achieved nothing, it was only criminal by the Japanese leaders to resort to this etc.

    But, dear Thorburn, I have seen an American war-movie made during the war, with Spencer Tracy playing the main role: a US-bomber pilot.

    In this film, the US pilot finally is carrying out a Kamikaze attack onto a German aircraft carrier!

    Dear Thorburn: the Germans had no aircraft carrier - not a single one -, and there are no reports whatsoever that any American Kamikaze attacks ever took place...

    It was the fear of Kamikaze attacks en masse after the invasion of the Japanese main islands, that led to the decision of the atomic bomb drops.

    At least this is the reason, Churchill gives for them.

    The atomic bombs were so heavy, that they had to be transported by ship from the USA to a Pacific island air base. But the US Navy cruiser transporting the bombs was sunk by a Japanese submarine.

    On the way back. Had it been sunk on the way to, the US had lost all their atomic bombs at that time available. For they had only two.

    And it would have taken them more than one year to produce one or two new bombs.

    During that time, the Wunderwaffen in Germany and in Japan could have been completed.

    What you do, Thorburn, is telling history ex post.

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    AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Skadi index page Nazi watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Slayer View Post
    Absolutely, I understand better now what you previously tried to bring across. We should break with dead-end Nazi fascism and embrace true patriotism, which is not self-destructing. Germany has learned from the errors of Nazism, I'm sure ... but unfortunately a small handful still don't see it.
    If Germany - and with her Europe as a whole - is to remain a US dominion, you are right.

    Such a sterilized type of would-be-"patriotism" (in German we have the ugly word "Verfassungspatriotismus") is after all an integral part of the FRG's self-definition under the de-facto occupation statute that is its 'constitution' (or rather "basic law"/"Grundgesetz").

    Apart from that there are many ways of being a nationalist. Not all of them are "dead-end Nazi fascism" (whatever that may mean).

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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Skadi index page Nazi watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Pervitinist View Post
    In the actual case Germany at least went down with all flags flying and the Wehrmacht regained its honor by defending her to the end.
    What price did we pay for "going down with all flags flying"?
    Life is no opera! WWII was not "Götterdämmerung". A responsible leader would have stopped a war without any hope of victory and a leader who cares for his people wouldn't have started a war in the first place! Thus Hitler was neither responsible nor did he care for our German people in the end [because the Russian people had shown they were stronger].

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    Re: Skadi index page Nazi watch

    What price did we pay for "going down with all flags flying"?
    Life is no opera! WWII was not "Götterdämmerung". A responsible leader would have stopped a war without any hope of victory and a leader who cares for his people wouldn't have started a war in the first place! Thus Hitler was neither responsible nor did he care for our German people in the end [because the Russian people had shown they were stronger].
    As ironic as it is, by fighting to the bitter end, the Germans affirmed their dignity and purpose of their lives. Something which even an American buffoon can understand.
    -Hyge sceal ðe heardre, heorte ðe cénre, mód sceal ðe máre, þý úre mægen lytlaþ. -The Battle of Maldon
    -I love the great despisers, because they are the great adorers, and arrows of longing for the other shore. -Thus Spake Zarathustra

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    Re: Claus von Stauffenberg

    Heros should know self-sacrifice, he was too much of a coward.

    He could have just used his gun, the chances he had, but he was too scared as it seems, therefor he paid, the NS "Führerprinzip" (leaders principle) worked perfectly
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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