Stauffenberg: A Noble and Hero

[Wuotans Krieger]

This is so very true.

Where I think you are being misleading is that there was no field of battle, especially at the beginning of Hitler in power. And rebeling against a disturbed person, should have been done before even arriving to the vote. But it happens that many disturbed persons to have had a power to submit and to enchant masses of people.

ARYAN KRIEGER:"When the traitor Von Stauffenberg attempted to murder his Fuehrer Germany was fighting a desperate battle of survival[1944].Therefore I am "misleading" no-one."

I think WWII started because the kind like Hitler were able to inflate the tribal and subhuman part of each individual. Persons able to get and inflate the worst in someone, always existed. Don't you agree?

ARYAN KRIEGER:"I would argue that Hitler salvaged and brought out the best in Germany.His economic and military revival are examples of this."

So I am not advocating the idea of murdering leaders. But I am advocating the idea of not chosing dement leaders. The curse of Germans bears the name Adolf Hitler. They had only troubles consequently the arrisal of such a man.

ARYAN KRIEGER: "Show me the evidence that Hitler was "demented"! Are you qualified to make such a diagnosis?"

The problems of those times could surely have been solved differently than by killing millions of people, especially Germans, in war.

ARYAN KRIEGER: "How did you expect Germany to fight? With cap guns?"

[Wuotans Krieger]

Quite so. Like king Louis.



Interesting. Did Hitler swear an oath that he won't send millions of Germans into a senseless war? Or, at least stop the war, when it was clear that the continuation will cause more German deaths and suffering?

It is better to die with honour than to live in infamy. It is a Teutonic thing. Perhaps you dont understand?

[Marius]

ARYAN KRIEGER: "How did you expect Germany to fight? With cap guns?"

You are again misleading. I did not advocate the action of gen. von Stauffenberg, even if I understand it. I even condamn him for a fact: why didn't he see from the beginning what kind of human being Hitler was. The beginning means the 1920s-1930s. If Hitler would have been executed and those times, the mankind would have been a better place nowadays.

Second, you are trying to say Germany defended itself during WWII. Excuse me, but provocations and next the aggression over Poland is not exactly what I understand by the word "defense". Then, the aggression against Czechoslovakia, France and Russia. And also, agression againt The Netherlands, at that time, non-beligerant and neutral.

I agree that some countries allied in order to get supremacy in the world, but this is by no means "defense", or you have a very deformed perception of this word.

Third, does it seem to you the innocent German children and women dying under the Napalm and Phosphore bombs of the Allies, had such a honorable life? Do you at least know how the German life was during the war? Have you read any books on that, or you were just fascinated by power and the fairytales of the NS books?

[Wuotans Krieger]

You are again misleading. I did not advocate the action of gen. von Stauffenberg, even if I understand it. I even condamn him for a fact: why didn't he see from the beginning what kind of human being Hitler was. The beginning means the 1920s-1930s. If Hitler would have been executed and those times, the mankind would have been a better place nowadays.

Second, you are trying to say Germany defended itself during WWII. Excuse me, but provocations and next the aggression over Poland is not exactly what I understand by the word "defense". Then, the aggression against Czechoslovakia, France and Russia. And also, agression againt The Netherlands, at that time, non-beligerant and neutral.

I agree that some countries allied in order to get supremacy in the world, but this is by no means "defense", or you have a very deformed perception of this word.

Third, does it seem to you the innocent German children and women dying under the Napalm and Phosphore bombs of the Allies, had such a honorable life? Do you at least know how the German life was during the war? Have you read any books on that, or you were just fascinated by power and the fairytales of the NS books?

Marius are you advocating the murder of politicians just because you do not agree with their policies?
As far as Poland is concerned Germany was protecting the rights and welfare of millions of Volksdeutschen from Polish agression. There were of course other outstanding factors going back to WWI and the unjust Versailles Diktat.
I dont need lessons from you about what it was like during WWII for Germans: my mother was an SS wife.

[Marius]

Marius are you advocating the murder of politicians just because you do not agree with their policies?
As far as Poland is concerned Germany was protecting the rights and welfare of millions of Volksdeutschen from Polish agression. There were of course other outstanding factors going back to WWI and the unjust Versailles Diktat.
I dont need lessons from you about what it was like during WWII for Germans: my mother was an SS wife.

And? Was it so nice during WWII? No, I think not.

[Wuotans Krieger]

And? Was it so nice during WWII? No, I think not.

Sorry Marius but what exactly is your point? You do have one?

[Prince Eugen]

In my oppinion he was nothing more than a traitor!He betrayed his Leader at the most difficult time.Like other "aristocrats'' who snobbed the N.S. Stauffenberg followed Hitler at victory and betrayed him in defeat!

[Wuotans Krieger]

In my oppinion he was nothing more than a traitor!He betrayed his Leader at the most difficult time.Like other "aristocrats'' who snobbed the N.S. Stauffenberg followed Hitler at victory and betrayed him in defeat!

Very true:he was nothing more than a back-stabbing traitor and that is why his name will live in infamy for betraying his Fuehrer.

[Thorburn]

The meaning ist: Lönneberga would have very much liked to belong to the "Stauffenberga".

The assassination and takeover attempt of July 1944 was totally legitimate. One doesn't continue a war that can no longer be won -- at least not if non-volunteers (recruits) and civilians will be affected.

Only a fool could have missed that in 1944 Germany was outnumbered at ratios between 1:4 and 1:20, as far as important factors such as strength of the army, navy, and airforce; production of supplies; population size; gross domestic product; production of oil and minerals; and war industries were concerned. In addition, the geopolitical position of Germany in the heart of Europe, fighting a three front war against foes whose production and industries partly couldn't even been attacked was disastrous.

Close to 90% of all German casualities and destruction of German property occured between 1944 and 1945. Hitler, by refusing to capitulate in time, thus earned himself the status of having being the German leader that is responsible for the death of more Germans than any leader before and after him -- more than 3,000,000 German soldiers and more than 1,000,000 German civilians.

Everybody could notice already in December 1941 that he had totally lost it by declaring war on the United States (and no, Germany was not obliged by the Tripartite Treaty to do this; Japan didn't declare war on the USSR either). Nothing can justify this, not the United States' clandestine support for Great Britain either. It was clear for everybody with a sane mind that drawing the United States officially into the war would mean Germany's defeat.

And leaders that lost it and that turn against the fundamental interests of the people have to be removed. By force if necessary. It's a pity that nationalists left Stauffenberg to the FRG antifascists and leftists, none of whom deserve him, as he was a conservative nationalist that sacrificed his life, so that Germany can live. There should be a Stauffenberg march next to the Hess march.

[Spjabork]

The assassination and takeover attempt of July 1944 was totally legitimate. One doesn't continue a war that can no longer be won -- at least not if non-volunteers (recruits) and civilians will be affected.

First of all, an assassination is always and everyhwere in the world considered as being against the law.

That's why, bin Laden is not accepted as regular combattant in a regular war, but is considered a terrorist.

The very word 'assassin', being taken over into English from Arabic, means 'suicide terrorist'.

What do you think would George Bush - or any US-President - think, and what would he do, if he found out that some US-Army officers are plotting against him?